Any Quantity Surveyors out there? CV help.

Any Quantity Surveyors out there? CV help.

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dan_almond

Original Poster:

149 posts

192 months

Friday 20th August 2010
quotequote all
Im due to apply for graduate QS roles this September, for 2011 intakes.

Question is, would anyone be so kind to take a look at my CV, and let me know what you think to it. Bad points/good points, and what i can do to improve on it. Id be most grateful if anyone could spare 2 minutes of this time, as getting it close to 100% is most important to me!

If you send me your email, ill send it though.

Many thanks
Dan

malcysmith

483 posts

188 months

Friday 20th August 2010
quotequote all
Dan,

This post I am afraid will not directly answer your question, however it may go some way to providing you with some advice. I graduated last year and the chances of gaining any employment were at an all time low. It was Building Surveying I studied so not a million miles away from your course. I managed luckily to get work for 6 months before being made redundant. Today I finish up at a reputable Scottish Firm of Building Surveyors where I have completed a 6-month internship. Luckily managed to get a full time job in Building Surveying. This job is completely down to the experience factor.

Bit of a life story I know but it lets you know what may await a relatively new graduate. Gone are the days of being picked out of your class by the various employers, getting a training contract and being on 30k within 4 years.

As far as I have managed to ascertain within the last year, if you have experience you stand out significantly.

To put it another way, In the interview for this job I know there were at least three candidates with 1st class honours but not one of the three had any experience. I managed to graduate with a "Desmond" but was fortunate enough to have the right experience.

Grad schemes are a bit of a lottery. If for example you don’t get to the interview stage, then your pretty stuffed for another year.

I would recommend trying to get some valuable employment with a local builder / contractor. Failing that possibly working client side a day or two a week for hee haw.

Anyone who is reading through c.v.’s who sees that you have spent 3 months working for hee haw a couple of days a week I would imagine would be fairly impressed.

Reply was a bit long winded I know, however I remember making a similar post an year ago and nobody really sent a valid reply.

If you wish then send me a mail and I shall have a read over the CV. I appreciate that I am not someone who would be possibly interviewing you, but I could possibly provide some advice.

Malcolm

Lefty 200 Drams

16,131 posts

201 months

Friday 20th August 2010
quotequote all
My current client (a major oil operator) just took on a staff project services graduate (qs) on £23k + bonus + phc + final salary pension. Annual bonus in the 5-10% range, as is the raise. This girl will move from ps discipline to ps discipline over 4 years in our office and will then have the opportunity to apply for any junior ps position in the global business.

Regarding industries, look for the high profit ones - pharmaceuticals pay very well (so look at the likes of pfizer, wyeth, skb etc).

There are loads, I mean thousands, of qs jobs in the oil industry with both clients (think bp, shell, conoco, chevron, total, marathon, taqa, gdf, exxon etc) and contractors (Halliburton, PSN, Wood Group, Aker Kvaerner etc) and all the specialist contractors (for example: subsea - acergy, allseas, saipem or well-service companies like Schlumberger).

Remember too, don't just look for qs job titles, your degree leads you straight into roles such as:

Cost engineer (I hate this term!)
Cost analyst
Project services graduate/engineer/analyst
Contracts advisor/engineer/analyst
Estimator
Cost planner

Etc etc!

Edited by Lefty 200 Drams on Friday 20th August 15:35

anonymous-user

53 months

Friday 20th August 2010
quotequote all
malcysmith said:
Dan,

This post I am afraid will not directly answer your question, however it may go some way to providing you with some advice. I graduated last year and the chances of gaining any employment were at an all time low. It was Building Surveying I studied so not a million miles away from your course. I managed luckily to get work for 6 months before being made redundant. Today I finish up at a reputable Scottish Firm of Building Surveyors where I have completed a 6-month internship. Luckily managed to get a full time job in Building Surveying. This job is completely down to the experience factor.

Bit of a life story I know but it lets you know what may await a relatively new graduate. Gone are the days of being picked out of your class by the various employers, getting a training contract and being on 30k within 4 years.

As far as I have managed to ascertain within the last year, if you have experience you stand out significantly.

To put it another way, In the interview for this job I know there were at least three candidates with 1st class honours but not one of the three had any experience. I managed to graduate with a "Desmond" but was fortunate enough to have the right experience.

Grad schemes are a bit of a lottery. If for example you don’t get to the interview stage, then your pretty stuffed for another year.

I would recommend trying to get some valuable employment with a local builder / contractor. Failing that possibly working client side a day or two a week for hee haw.

Anyone who is reading through c.v.’s who sees that you have spent 3 months working for hee haw a couple of days a week I would imagine would be fairly impressed.

Reply was a bit long winded I know, however I remember making a similar post an year ago and nobody really sent a valid reply.

If you wish then send me a mail and I shall have a read over the CV. I appreciate that I am not someone who would be possibly interviewing you, but I could possibly provide some advice.

Malcolm
I agree that Building Surveying jobs for graduates are very few and far between, but there are quite a few QS graduate/assistant jobs about and I’m turning QS jobs away on a weekly basis at the moment as the Recruitment agencies can’t seem to tell the difference!

dan_almond

Original Poster:

149 posts

192 months

Friday 20th August 2010
quotequote all
Thanks for reading through my CV Iian.

In terms of industry, i think ive become a bit blind. My QS course is RICS accredated, and is very 'building' led. The course is not enclined to civil engineering in any way. This summer im currently working over a civil engineering contractors, which is ever so slightly opened my mind to this.

Gut feeling tells me to follow RICS accreditation, wether through a consultants QS practice, building contractor or civils contractor. Gut feeling again, tells me the money will be better if i follow the civils route. Ive been advised, given the option, to work for a contractor for a few years, before joining the consultant QS's.

Apart from the above, and the obvious businesses (EC harris-Consultants, Balfour Beaty-Civils and (Interserve-buildings), i dont know what other industries are availiable for a QS.

If they are only earning £30-40k, without being inconsiderate, how much are you on? Who do you work for?

Im 100% mobile, however the Mrs would say otherwise. I work anywhere in the world given the chance!

Any advice on where else i could aim to look for graduate recruitment?

Edited by dan_almond on Friday 20th August 15:51

dan_almond

Original Poster:

149 posts

192 months

Friday 20th August 2010
quotequote all
Malcolm. Thanks for getting back to me with some advice. Much appreciated!

Iian. Just seen your ammended posts. Im googling as we speak! :-)

Lefty 200 Drams

16,131 posts

201 months

Friday 20th August 2010
quotequote all
Quick tip! Learn about risk analysis and monte carlo sims (if you haven't already done so at uni - we touched on it 5th year).

It's not difficult but most people assume that it is and will therefore pay a consultant good money to facilitate risk workshops and crunch the numbers.

£10-15k per session is quite feasible which might involve the consultant doing 2 days of pre-reading, a day doing the workshop and a day writing up the results. £10k for 4 days work is pretty good for somebody who doesn't kick a ball for a living...



Benchmarking is another good one - serious cash to be made by taking other peoples data and selling it to those who need it (whilst taking their data and flogging it on to others). It was a very shrewd qs who came up with that business model... wink

Edited by Lefty 200 Drams on Friday 20th August 16:18

malcysmith

483 posts

188 months

Friday 20th August 2010
quotequote all
Dan,

Not a problem. Better having someone to have a look than get no replies! Without a shadow of a doubt ditch the RICS dream the most you would be on would be I reckon, 110k by say 50 if you are head partner in a decent firm. Not your likes of EC Harris im meaning a fairly medium sized firm maybe say 10 offices.

Oil industry is where you want to be. There or renewables. Few boys from uni who did quants went to oil. Both on 35k plus benefits at 21/22. Possibilities are endless though.

If it were me, then I would be going to oil or gas. Money is crazy, hours are to mind you and you would almost certainly have to relocate.

malcolm

Lefty 200 Drams

16,131 posts

201 months

Friday 20th August 2010
quotequote all
malcysmith said:
Dan,

Not a problem. Better having someone to have a look than get no replies! Without a shadow of a doubt ditch the RICS dream the most you would be on would be I reckon, 110k by say 50 if you are head partner in a decent firm. Not your likes of EC Harris im meaning a fairly medium sized firm maybe say 10 offices.

Oil industry is where you want to be. There or renewables. Few boys from uni who did quants went to oil. Both on 35k plus benefits at 21/22. Possibilities are endless though.

If it were me, then I would be going to oil or gas. Money is crazy, hours are to mind you and you would almost certainly have to relocate.

malcolm
yes

It's perfectly possible to be on a staff salary of £100k by the time you're 40 in the oil industry or a consultant rate of £70-80/hr.

Plenty of oil work in the uk (London or Aberdeen). Other good places would include Norway, France, Spain, Monaco, Italy, Egypt, Texas, Alberta, Western Oz, Malaysia, UAE, Kazakhstan, Azerbaijan, Russia, Sakhalin, Nigeria, Gabon, Equatorial Guinea, Algeria and, of course, most of the Middle East (Abu Dhabi, Iraq and Saudi in particular at the moment).

If you're willing to work in some of the less hospitable places the money can be very good, say 1.5x UK money but generally with good tax benefits...

dan_almond

Original Poster:

149 posts

192 months

Friday 20th August 2010
quotequote all
Wow. Food for thought from you both!. I think ill be on the phone an aweful lot the next couple of months getting my CV off to these guys!

Thanks again!

maximus123

134 posts

170 months

Monday 23rd August 2010
quotequote all
Hi Dan,

I'm not a qs by trade so can't give you specific advice in that area but I am a commercial surveyor so know a bit about the industry.

Generally speaking the market is improving, it's not great but it is getting better. It's always difficult to find your first position as a graduate but once you gain some experience things get a little easier.

I personally went down the RICS route. To be perfectly honest I didn't think there was an alternative. From what others have said on here there may be more option available to you.

Best of luck whatever you decide and try to get as much experience as possible. It will definately improve your prospects of finding a position.

I've written and read quite a few CV's in my time so by all means pm me yours and give you some feedback.

dan_almond

Original Poster:

149 posts

192 months

Monday 23rd August 2010
quotequote all
maximus123 - Please PM me your email, and ill send the CV to you.

Where do you currently work, how old are you, and how hard was the APC process? Im currently trying to weigh up wether it would be possable to gain RICS chartership though the oil/gas companies. This is a route that i didnt know about, but one that i could see myself in.

I feel i have gained sufficient experience already. The CV will show details. With regards the above, im almost tempted to work in construction for a few years to get my chartership, and then apply to the likes of BP etc.

I am however, now slightly confused!

3sixty

2,963 posts

198 months

Monday 23rd August 2010
quotequote all
Cant answer all your questions, but can perhaps give you an insight into APC. I did my QS degree on day release, so worked in industry 4 days a week and 1 day a week at Uni. My employer paid for my Uni fees and I learnt so much in the now 5 years I've been with them.

I graduated last year and am sitting my APC in Novemeber this year. The APC routes allow you to provide a 'speciality'. With me being a PQS, I selected building, however there are many options to choose for a QS, oil, gas, M&E etc., so I wouldnt worry about not being able to pass APC with specialising in oil/gas.

To be honest, the oil/gas route sounds interesting to myself! I've been with a PQS now for 5 years, which is great but I've become slightly pigeon-holed into what I'm doing. I learn very quickly and was doing my own cost plans and feasibility estimates for some huge mixed used developments with little supervision... but I havent had the exposure to BQs which someone on the same career path as me would have.

What are the key skills in Oil/gas/pharmaceuticals? Are you still in SMM/CESMM bill bashing? Or is it a little more sophisticated than that? (Apologies for the thread hijack OP!)

maximus123

134 posts

170 months

Tuesday 24th August 2010
quotequote all
Dan, I've pm'd you some comments about your cv. Hopefully, they'll be of some help.

As for myself, I entered the profession later in life after realising I couldn't make much money in science. I graduated in 2004 and gained RICS accreditation 2 years later. General practice is obviously different from what you are doing but the APC wasn't difficult. I found the paperwork the biggest pain the arse.

The APC is different from any exam you will probably have done, due to the fact it is an interview as opposed to a written exam. I assume it is the same for qs, but am not sure. Everyone I knew worked hard and passed. The ones that didn't put the work still have not passed.

As a graduate I was fortunate to get lots of experience in various fields and found valuation to be well suited to me. I often have chat to qs's to get figures for building projects that I am doing residual valuations on.


3sixty

2,963 posts

198 months

Tuesday 24th August 2010
quotequote all
Yes, for QS it is an interview with a presentation on your critical analysis. Diary and CPD also need to be submitted along with 3,000 word Crit.

dan_almond

Original Poster:

149 posts

192 months

Tuesday 24th August 2010
quotequote all
3sixty said:
Cant answer all your questions, but can perhaps give you an insight into APC. I did my QS degree on day release, so worked in industry 4 days a week and 1 day a week at Uni. My employer paid for my Uni fees and I learnt so much in the now 5 years I've been with them.

I graduated last year and am sitting my APC in Novemeber this year. The APC routes allow you to provide a 'speciality'. With me being a PQS, I selected building, however there are many options to choose for a QS, oil, gas, M&E etc., so I wouldnt worry about not being able to pass APC with specialising in oil/gas.

To be honest, the oil/gas route sounds interesting to myself! I've been with a PQS now for 5 years, which is great but I've become slightly pigeon-holed into what I'm doing. I learn very quickly and was doing my own cost plans and feasibility estimates for some huge mixed used developments with little supervision... but I havent had the exposure to BQs which someone on the same career path as me would have.

What are the key skills in Oil/gas/pharmaceuticals? Are you still in SMM/CESMM bill bashing? Or is it a little more sophisticated than that? (Apologies for the thread hijack OP!)
Thanks for your advice. Have you got any details as to RICS specialities. I cant find any details regarding oil, gas & M+E as you say. Personally im thinking to complete the APC in civils, and then apply to the oil/gas giants...

Keys skills in oil, as far as ive figured so far, vary. Ive options in commercial managament, contracts managament or procurement and ecomomics. Its the commercial side of things that im most interested in however.


dan_almond

Original Poster:

149 posts

192 months

Tuesday 24th August 2010
quotequote all
maximus123 said:
Dan, I've pm'd you some comments about your cv. Hopefully, they'll be of some help.

As for myself, I entered the profession later in life after realising I couldn't make much money in science. I graduated in 2004 and gained RICS accreditation 2 years later. General practice is obviously different from what you are doing but the APC wasn't difficult. I found the paperwork the biggest pain the arse.

The APC is different from any exam you will probably have done, due to the fact it is an interview as opposed to a written exam. I assume it is the same for qs, but am not sure. Everyone I knew worked hard and passed. The ones that didn't put the work still have not passed.

As a graduate I was fortunate to get lots of experience in various fields and found valuation to be well suited to me. I often have chat to qs's to get figures for building projects that I am doing residual valuations on.
Thanks for you email yesterday. Certainly give me a few pointers to consider. Im in the habbit of documenting what i do (work wise) in a diary, daily, which im told should stand me in good stead come the start of the APC.


maximus123

134 posts

170 months

Tuesday 24th August 2010
quotequote all
3sixty said:
Yes, for QS it is an interview with a presentation on your critical analysis. Diary and CPD also need to be submitted along with 3,000 word Crit.
This is exactly what I had to do.

Dan, happy to help with the CV. I guess it's up to you what path you take. I know a few building surveyors working in private practice and in my opinion they are underpaid, I'm not sure for qs's though. Although there seems to be quite a demand for qs's.

Your career, to a certain extent, is whatever you make of it. You're in a great position right now to weigh up what you want to do. I was lucky and fell into what I'm doing and it worked out OK for me.

Don't forget you can always change what you are doing in the future, unless you specialise very early in your career.


dan_almond

Original Poster:

149 posts

192 months

Wednesday 25th August 2010
quotequote all
Lefty 200 Drams said:
My degree course was very much building-led too (and RICS accredited) but after I graduated and moved away from the building industry, it seemd to me that it had no benefit so I stopped working on it.

Only one of my uni class mates that I keep in touch with went on to gain RICS membership and, to be honest, he still works as a plodding qs for a small home-building contractor so I'm not sure what good it's done him (so far).

I think that if you want to work as a traditional QS, for a private practice, then it's probably worth doing.
Thanks for the advice mate. Im still none the wiser as regards getting my RICS status before applying to the likes of BP etc etc.

Best bet is to apply to as many as i can, and take it from there. The money with BP seems much better than ill get as a RICS QS. Graduate starting salary with BP suggests £29k. We shall see...

Thanks again,
Dan Almond

OzzyR1

5,697 posts

231 months

Wednesday 25th August 2010
quotequote all
dan_almond said:
Im due to apply for graduate QS roles this September, for 2011 intakes.

Question is, would anyone be so kind to take a look at my CV, and let me know what you think to it. Bad points/good points, and what i can do to improve on it. Id be most grateful if anyone could spare 2 minutes of this time, as getting it close to 100% is most important to me!

If you send me your email, ill send it though.

Many thanks
Dan
Hi Dan,

I'm a QS working in London for a small-medium sized PQS firm (probably have 40+ qualified staff). Came to the game fairly late - graduated at 27 cos I spent about 5 years travelling after A-levels but am in my early 30's now and am an associate of my firm with MRICS qualifications etc. Will be honest with you, I'm on a salary that starts with a 4 which is liveable but not that much when you live in the south-east.

If you want a chat or for me to look over your CV then email me through my profile, would like to help someone starting out as I remember how difficult it was & can't even imagine what it's like in the current climate.

Must admit I've been looking at O&G jobs from some of the posts in this thread laugh

Cheers






Edited by OzzyR1 on Wednesday 25th August 23:12