Opportunity to start your own business kitchen sales/fitting

[singlecoil]

A few years ago I ran a business that sold, designed, made and installed bespoke painted shaker style kitchens. My profile picture gives an idea of the sort of thing I did. The business did alright, but really the making side of things needed to be split away from the sales/fitting, neither side was getting the attention that it needed, and when the opportunity arose to move and do something else for a while, I took it.

A few more things have changed recently, and I now find myself in a position to be able to start making again, in a bigger, better, and faster (therefore more cost-efficient) manner. But this time I intend to concentrate on the manufacturing side, and to supply a network of individuals who will market my products in their own area, and take care of the fitting as well.

So, what exactly am I offering, and what sort of person will you need to be to participate?

First of all, I don’t want any of your money, so this is not a franchise thing.

I am offering to teach interested individuals how to design kitchens, especially using my products although they will be free to use other makes as well, if they wish, and how to fit them. Much of this training can be done remotely, though a couple of days would need to be spent at my unit near Aylesbury.

I am offering each person who wishes to become involved their own area, and will not supply anyone else in that area. I do know from experience that you won’t normally want to cover more than a 15 to 20 miles radius from home, but that would be up to you.

I’m offering to provide full telephone and email support, during the training/set-up period and thereafter. I do have quite a bit of experience and will pass it on whenever you need it.

I’m offering to supply you with built-up kitchen units which are ready to fit, at a price level similar to the upper ranges of DIY warehouses, and in custom sizes where necessary or desirable (and this will be a strong USP where used correctly). These units are actually, and visibly, better than the chipboard and plastic stuff offered by the majority of your competitors. Altough these units look traditional, they are fitted with the latest Blum hardware (if Mercedes made kitchens, they would use Blum).These units are designed from the outset to be easy to fit, and because each kitchen is built to a design, there are various fitting advantages that don’t apply to standardised factory made stuff.

What do you need? Well, time, obviously, enough money to be able to acquire the relatively basic tools you will need, some intelligence and enthusiasm, an ability to get on with people, and a to listen to their requirements, a bit of self confidence is handy too. You will also need a van, or to hire one, when the time comes to deliver the units to the customer.

As is usually the case with running your own business, the essence is the ability to generate sales. You will need to get your own leads and you can do this by advertising and/or getting the word out through your own circle of friends and relatives. Once you have the leads, then you will need to visit them, measure their kitchen, rough out a design based on their requirements, do a proper design at home, return, and get the sale. This process can take some time and several visits.

To improve your chances of getting the sale you ideally need to let your customers see just how nice one of these kitchens look, how nice they feel, and how well they work, and the best way of doing that is to actually fit a kitchen (possibly your own) somewhere within your area that the customers can visit. So you should consider whether investing in a kitchen for yourself, or doing a deal with someone you know, is something you could afford to do. You should also consider it if you’ve never fitted a kitchen before, you may well need the practice, and the boost to your self-confidence.

The actual fitting (the easy, but hard work part). Firstly, if you can get enough sales, you may choose to let someone else do the fitting, but you will still need to know about it. Assuming you do it yourself, most of it you should be able to do on your own, though it would be better if there were two of you for some, if not all, of the fit. Some jobs you will need to farm out, such as gas fitting and probably the electrical work and plumbing (although you can do some of those yourself, there are regulatory requirements that need to be met).

You can email me through my profile to show interest, but it would be better to reply here if you have actual questions, because the answers may be useful to others too, and to make this work well I need several people to take this up.

[grim_d]

Sounds appealing, I'm an out of work graphic designer though have always been interested in interior visualisation, I also love building things, also have an friend who was a kitchen fitter/tiler and is also out of work at the moment and thinking about setting up on his own. Few questions...

How big an area do you intend to cover? I'm in central Scotland.

How much do you estimate start up costs would be?

How many pieces of the puzzle do you intend to supply? Just units? or would you do worktops and other things?

How does your design process go? Is it cad based? what software? I have a bit of background in 3d which could benefit this.

Would you say a background in sales would be necessary? I used to do vehicle graphics and thus would sometimes have to visit potential customers to discuss their requirements, a similar process to what you have described.

You mention you will supply the units "at a price level similar to the upper ranges of DIY warehouses", does this mean that to remain competitive the only profit margin is on the fitting/design? Maybe that's what it's like normally, I'm not sure, I'm not a kitchen fitter

I will have more I'm sure but these will do for now.

Cheers,
Graham.

Edited by grim_d on Saturday 26th February 14:06

[singlecoil]

grim_d said:

Sounds appealing, I'm an out of work graphic designer though have always been interested in interior visualisation, I also love building things, also have an friend who was a kitchen fitter/tiler and is also out of work at the moment and thinking about setting up on his own. Few questions...

How big an area do you intend to cover? I'm in central Scotland.

The only distance related issue is one of actually geting the cabinets from here to there. I have been thinking along the lines of the fitter arriving in a hired luton van, and taking them away (having inspected them first of course, (and paid ). Certainly not impossible to send them by a carrier, though, I am currently looking into that, both the costs and the packing issue.

grim_d said:

How much do you estimate start up costs would be?

A bit depends on whether or not you would plan to do a demo kitchen, if you did, then there would be the costs of the bits for that (but maybe a deal could be done with the recipient of the kitchen). It is valuable to have a kitchen that people can see, and a working kitchen is better than one in a warehouse display. It's possible to get started with just a demo door and drawer front, a shelf, (which is made out of varnished birch ply, the same as the cabinets) and some pictures (which I would supply).

Apart from that, there would be the cost of a basic tool kit, and, if you decide to do laminate worktops yourself, the cost of a decent jig (£100 ish), and a decent router (£300 ish) to use with it. Small step ladder is handy too. To get yourself and the tools etc to the job, an estate car or van would be good (this assumes that the cabinets (and worktops) would have been delivered straight to the customer). If you decide to do the Part P training course, then that will add a bit too. This is so you can do the electrics yourself, I never used to bother because I had a local guy who did all that, and the plumbing too, which was good.

grim_d said:

How many pieces of the puzzle do you intend to supply? Just units? or would you do worktops and other things?

I would suggest you get worktops locally, laminate ones are cheap and there is plenty of selection. Wooden worktops can also be got locally, usually, or I would suggest suppliers. Best is granite, probably add £1K or so to the customer's price, but the suppliers fit it and so you don't have that hassle. Other bits, taps, sinks, lighting, best you get that locally or use your own suppliers (again I can make suggestions), and you will get trade price of course. Letting the customer choose and buy their own appliances is good practice, and what they would prefer usually anyway.

grim_d said:

How does your design process go? Is it cad based? what software? I have a bit of background in 3d which could benefit this.

I use Google Sketchup, it's quick to learn, effective and free. Naturally I will provide sketchup models of the cabinets etc.

grim_d said:

Would you say a background in sales would be necessary? I used to do vehicle graphics and thus would sometimes have to visit potential customers to discuss their requirements, a similar process to what you have described.

It's important not to come across like a salesman, any customer who is shopping around will have encountered some already. OTOH you will need to be professional and know your subject (another good reason for doing a demo kitchen). The thing is to listen to what they want, and let them understand and believe that you can supply it, and will supply it. And not push too hard, of course. Letting people realise that you, unlike the others, are going to give them plenty of time to think helps put them at their ease.

grim_d said:

You mention you will supply the units "at a price level similar to the upper ranges of DIY warehouses", does this mean that to remain competitive the only profit margin is on the fitting/design? Maybe that's what it's like normally, I'm not sure, I'm not a kitchen fitter

The customer won't know what the RSP of the units is, as there isn't one. You will be well under 'designer' prices for the same quality of kitchen, so it will be up to you to set your prices and decide whether to charge separately for fitting, but of course I will provide guidance if required. I always used to quote an all in price, and let them pay other sub-contractors themselves. This works well especially with electricians because customers often take the opportunity to get other electrical work done at the same time, plus the electrician supplied the lights etc that he used, so it was up to him to sort any problems arising.

Pricing, think (for the time being at least) in terms of say £200 for a drawer line unit, and maybe £150 for a wall unit. So a 30 unit kitchen could well cost in the region of £5K for cabinets, say another £2K for granite, £1K for sink and other bits, say another £2K on some nice appliances, £1K on electrics, if you know anyone who has had a decent kitchen fitted recently you will know there is plenty of scope for making money, on figures like that.

[jas xjr]

maybe a simple website for those that wish to fit their own units. those prices sound very good to me.
the fact that you can make them to custom sizes is a big plus.
could you have some units on display for potential agents/customers to take a look at?

Edited by jas xjr on Saturday 26th February 15:47

[grim_d]

Thanks for the reply, Ill need to have a chat with the other lad and see what he thinks, I love the idea of selling a quality product at a price similar to the cheap rubbish on the high street.

singlecoil said:

Pricing, think (for the time being at least) in terms of say £200 for a drawer line unit, and maybe £150 for a wall unit.

I know these are rough prices but are they inclusive of drawers/fronts/fittings? If so that would seem very competitive.

How are your units constructed? what makes them of a higher quality to off the shelf numbers?

What about samples? Would you be willing to send me a few bits and bobs to take a look at if we fancy having a go at this?

Edited by grim_d on Saturday 26th February 16:38

[singlecoil]

grim_d said:

Thanks for the reply, Ill need to have a chat with the other lad and see what he thinks, I love the idea of selling a quality product at a price similar to the cheap rubbish on the high street.

singlecoil said:

Pricing, think (for the time being at least) in terms of say £200 for a drawer line unit, and maybe £150 for a wall unit.

I know these are rough prices but are they inclusive of drawers/fronts/fittings? If so that would seem very competitive.

Yes, it is competitive, and that price would include the varnished birch plywood drawer, full exentension undermounted Blum drawer runners with soft close, one shelf, with metal shelf pegs, the whole cabinet varnished plywood, and if one of the sides is revealed (say at the end of a run) then that side would be painted to match the doors. It also includes the drawer front and the door. The drawer front is plain, the door is frame and panel, and both are hand painted in whatever colour the customer has chosen.

We use ash veneered MDF for the doors and drawer fronts, the ash veneer provides a good surface, and allows the grain to show through the paint. The material is very stable and not inclined to warp or shrink. If anything gets damged, sctached, chipped, even dented it can easily be repaired,bit of filler and a dab of paint, and half an hour later you won't be able to see it (one of the advantages of the hand painting, try that with a sprayed finish!)

Forgot to mention the door hinges, 3d adjustable Blum hinges with soft closers, fitted, and the 4 adjustable feet. So basically a cabinet which is ready to fix to the wall, and use.

grim_d said:

How are your units constructed? what makes them of a higher quality to off the shelf numbers?

Out of the aforementioned birch plywood. A 15mm piece of this material has 11 equal thickness laminations, and it is very, very strong. The difference between it and the chipboard that 99% of kichens are made of is difficult to express adequately, compare F1 carbon fibre with cheap GRP. Also it can withstand the occasional soaking without expanding and falling to bits in the way that melamine faced chipboard does.

The cabinets are screwed to gether with pocket screws, very popular with cabinet shops in the states, but not much seen in this country. Very strong and very accurate, and ideal for custom sized work as it doesn't require the reprogamming of a CNC router.

grim_d said:

What about samples? Would you be willing to send me a few bits and bobs to take a look at if we fancy having a go at this?

Yes, we are working on this at the moment. I'm sorting out the machinery etc and will start with some sample doors, drawer fronts and shelves (so you can see what the cabinets are made of, and will look like) to send out to interested parties, and for which a contribution to the costs will be required, unlike the book which will be free.

[grim_d]

All sounds very good, can you pm me your contact details so I can keep in touch if need be?

[singlecoil]

grim_d said:

All sounds very good, can you pm me your contact details so I can keep in touch if need be?

Better if you email me through my profile because that way I will know who you are.

[jonny70]

singlecoil said:

How many pieces of the puzzle do you intend to supply? Just units? or would you do worktops and other things?

I would suggest you get worktops locally, laminate ones are cheap and there is plenty of selection. Wooden worktops can also be got locally, usually, or I would suggest suppliers. Best is granite, probably add £1K or so to the customer's price, but the suppliers fit it and so you don't have that hassle. Other bits, taps, sinks, lighting, best you get that locally or use your own suppliers (again I can make suggestions), and you will get trade price of course. Letting the customer choose and buy their own appliances is good practice, and what they would prefer usually anyway.

.

I have been some research into a niche kitchen business.

As you wouldn't do worktops. You mention getting it from else ( like Bushboard etc ) can you elaborate on what you said above the suppliers would fit granite worktops instead of you? (the guy selling/fitting the kitchens having having hassle)

How many different design of units do you intend to make?

The pricing you mention (obviously ball park ) is that your cost or the retail cost for the units to customer?

[singlecoil]

jonny70 said:

singlecoil said:

grim_d said:

How many pieces of the puzzle do you intend to supply? Just units? or would you do worktops and other things?

I would suggest you get worktops locally, laminate ones are cheap and there is plenty of selection. Wooden worktops can also be got locally, usually, or I would suggest suppliers. Best is granite, probably add £1K or so to the customer's price, but the suppliers fit it and so you don't have that hassle. Other bits, taps, sinks, lighting, best you get that locally or use your own suppliers (again I can make suggestions), and you will get trade price of course. Letting the customer choose and buy their own appliances is good practice, and what they would prefer usually anyway.

.

I have been some research into a niche kitchen business.

As you wouldn't do worktops. You mention getting it from else ( like Bushboard etc ) can you elaborate on what you said above the suppliers would fit granite worktops instead of you? (the guy selling/fitting the kitchens having having hassle)

With laminate worktops there is a huge selection, and you need to choose a range that you can get hold of easily, and this will depend on your area, local research necessary there.

With granite, the usual procedure is to link up with a granite firm that covers your area, then get the customers to choose and buy the granite direct from them (again, avoiding hassle on your part, especially if there is a problem). The granite people come and measure up, make templates, when the new kitchen is in place, then return a couple of days later (could be sooner, check this point when selecting your preferred supplier) and they fit it. It's well worth encouraging customers to have granite because it is nicer in so many ways AND it's the easiest option from your point of view.

jonny70 said:

How many different design of units do you intend to make?

If you mean the doors and drawer fronts, only the one, the painted shaker (but that is the best one). Cabinet wise, well it's whatever is needed to best fit the requirements of the customer, and the kitchen. As new hardware comes onto the market, so the cabinet portfolio is added to as required.

jonny70 said:

The pricing you mention (obviously ball park ) is that your cost or the retail cost for the units to customer?

That's the cost to the person buying from me, be that someone who is fitting a kitchen for himself, or someone who is doing it as a business for other people. There's no VAT at the moment, but there will be eventually, and then the prices will need to go up, probably about 15%.

[singlecoil]

jas xjr said:

maybe a simple website for those that wish to fit their own units. those prices sound very good to me.
the fact that you can make them to custom sizes is a big plus.
could you have some units on display for potential agents/customers to take a look at?

Edited by jas xjr on Saturday 26th February 15:47

I was looking through the thread just now, and don't know how I could have failed to answer this, in fact, I thought I already had, perhaps I didn't press the 'submit'button.

Anyway, I shall be running up a website in the next meanwhile, hopefully I can tie that in with the design and installation manual that I am busy writing at the moment. It will probably be another month before I can get a little display organised. I do still have some display stuff left over from a few years ago, but unfortunately it's spent the intervening period in the back of an unusually damp garage, and although it's survied better than a normal one would have, it isn't really fit for purpose as is.

an enquiry I had by PM said:

How do I go about geting suitable sub-contractors, I don't know anybody in my area? How do I go about paying them?

What you will be looking for, in the case of gas, electrical, and plumbing subbies, in most cases, will be self-employed people rather than firms, and you will be looking to build a relationship with them. People like this are often keen to get a bit of extra work (don't bother with the ones that aren't), so start with asking around and ringing people who advertise under their own name. Parish magazines can be good for finding people, and can be very good for advertising in too. Quite often, when you find a person in one of the categories, they will know people who can do the other jobs

As for paying them, I thoroughly recommend that you don't pay them yourself, let the customer do that. Firstly you don't want extra money going through your books, it will put you nearer the VAT threshold sooner, secondly, you don't the customer coming after you if a light stops working 6 months later, and thirdly the person concerned will often be asked by the customer to do other work, which you don't want to get involved with.

So, design the job, let the sub-contractor discuss the exact requirements with the customer, and give them a quote (I never used to know how much my electrician was charging, but he always got the work), and bill them when the work is finished. When you find someone suitable stick with them, and build a friendly relationship, the work will go better, and these people are more likely to drop what they are doing and come to your job as a favour to a friend than just for the money.

[jonny70]

what would the best way in dealing with the walled area between the work tops and the upper units?(ie if it traditional kitchens should it be retiled or painted?

What would you suggest do with the old tiles lets say as most old kitchens are fully tiled? Remove them ? paint or tiles? should this be contracted out?


Im told that its not just new units but the tiling is a major cost in putting in a new kitchen?

How did you approach this in the past? what do you recommend?

[jas xjr]

jonny70 said:

what would the best way in dealing with the walled area between the work tops and the upper units?(ie if it traditional kitchens should it be retiled or painted?

What would you suggest do with the old tiles lets say as most old kitchens are fully tiled? Remove them ? paint or tiles? should this be contracted out?


Im told that its not just new units but the tiling is a major cost in putting in a new kitchen?

How did you approach this in the past? what do you recommend?

i may be wrong but a lot of people want a managed job. that is one supplier organises everything.

[singlecoil]

jonny70 said:

what would the best way in dealing with the walled area between the work tops and the upper units?(ie if it traditional kitchens should it be retiled or painted?

What would you suggest do with the old tiles lets say as most old kitchens are fully tiled? Remove them ? paint or tiles? should this be contracted out?


Im told that its not just new units but the tiling is a major cost in putting in a new kitchen?

How did you approach this in the past? what do you recommend?

The ideal look for one of our kitchens is a very clean, simple look, and anything other than plain painted wall does tend to distract from that. The best way to keep that look is with an upstand (there's a granite upstand on the picture I've attached, sorry about the appalling quality, it's scanned from an old print (I lost all the digital stuff with my last computer change)





So, ideally you need to remove the old tiles and repair the wall, you may need to get a plasterer in if the tiles don't come away easily (sometimes the plasterboard comes away from the wall easier than the tiles from the plasterboard). But they are pretty much going to have to come off whatever. Best to have a spashback behind the cooking area, one way is with glass, painted with the wall colour on the rear, can look brilliant.

If they want tiles, or the wall isn't too bad after the old ones come off, and tiles are cheaper than replastering, and the job is a cost-conscious one, then tile it. You probably won't need to get anyone in, tiling isn't that difficult to learn, or expensive. Practice on your own kitchen first, plus there are donkey loads of videos out there on how to do it.

jas xjr said:

i may be wrong but a lot of people want a managed job. that is one supplier organises everything.

You may well be right. It's the kind of ground you need to go over with the customer at an early stage. Many customers are keen to be involved, and feel they have more control if they take care of the subbies, others may prefer you to do it.

For reasons given earlier I always recommended to the customers that they do it themselves, but with me organising and liaising with the sub-contractors as to the best way and times in which to tackle the various jobs. That was the bit that the customers didn't fancy, they were always happy to pay them themselves (that way they knew I wasn't marking them up) and they were happy to discuss choices of taps, sink etc with plumbers, and lighting with the electrician.

[jas xjr]

Sounds good to me. I have refurbished several properties over the last few years.
With kitchens I hated going to the big sheds.with howdens et al I always had the nagging doubt that more discount was available.

I was always looking for something similar to what you are offering.
To my perspective the fact that the units can be touched up to repair damage is a major usp as a landlord.
Good luck and keep us updated

[singlecoil]

jas xjr said:

with howdens et al I always had the nagging doubt that more discount was available.

I used to have an account with Howdens, rarely bought anything, as obviously I make my own cabinets, but they were handy for the odd bit of cornice (if I couldn't talk the customers out of it, horrible stuff). Plus I also used to do revamps (just replacing the doors and drawer fronts with my painted shaker ones, worktops, sinks, that sort of thing, so they were handy if I wanted a replacement sink base because the old one had rotted out.

Anyway, if you have an account with them they keep ringing you up and asking you to buy stuff, and they are very prepared to negotiate, especially at certain times when presumably they need to make their sales numbers up.

[dollydoll]

hi
am interested to know how things are going. my husband and I are thinking of setting up some kind of business. My son works as a kitchen/bathroom fitter for B&Q and various other outlets through his own business but always has trouble getting paid. Very interested in what has been said here but realised that it was some time ago! Any comments please