A late E39 M5 or an early E90 M3
Discussion
SignalGruen said:
Same here. Mine has some bubbling on those replaceable trims for the rear window but no rust on the actual bodywork. That said I did come across some rusty examples in my search a year ago.
Mine has this on a couple of trims, very small but still rather annoying. I will replace them/all the trims in time.No rusty fuel cap though my boot lid had some tiny localised signs of paint discolouration - normally the start of bubbling. Had this all repaired at a bodyshop and replaced the faded badges while it was there. 12 months on and it's still perfect. Obviously a week point on the 5s but nothing that would put me off. Worst case is a new boot lid anyway.
Besides when I was looking at younger AMG mercs (2004/5 C55s and E55s), I was surprised to see rather poor signs of rust resistance. I assume Merc has fixed this for the newer cars.
naefeart said:
No rusty fuel cap though my boot lid had some tiny localised signs of paint discolouration - normally the start of bubbling. Had this all repaired at a bodyshop and replaced the faded badges while it was there. 12 months on and it's still perfect. Obviously a week point on the 5s but nothing that would put me off. Worst case is a new boot lid anyway.
How much is a new bootlid?naefeart said:
Besides when I was looking at younger AMG mercs (2004/5 C55s and E55s), I was surprised to see rather poor signs of rust resistance. I assume Merc has fixed this for the newer cars.
I believe only facelifted S, SL and CL from mid-00s onwards are ok. My 2004 (W220) S320 facelift have no rust even though there are quite a few stone chips in the arches and bonnet. My Mercedes specialist told me to stay stick with the S, SL and CL if I ever buy Mercedes again.hygt2 said:
Hedgetrimmer said:
The M3 has been less reliable but it is under AUC at the moment so not an issue.
What's been the problem with your M3? I am NOT planning to buy with AUC. The RAC Gold warranty has covered my cars so far with no trouble.Nothing significant:
Drivers seat pump failed so bolsters stopped working
Exhaust baffles were making strange rattle noises. The problem still exists but it doesnt bother me too much
Drivers side front wheel arch was loose
A number of other smaller problems which were more due to poor AUC check by the dealer prior to purchase!
I would bother with the RAC warranty personally. You are far better off buying the BMW warranty and paying monthly. Just make sure the car you purchase isn't too close to 60k miles as the warranty doubles in price!
Me and the boss both ran M5's. Mine was starting to rust on the inside lip of the rear wheel arch, around the badge on the boot lid and inside the petrol cap. The front wing rusted but this was due to a poor repair rather than BMW build quality. The bosses car was a 2000 model and was rusting all over. He spent £4k having new front wings put on, bootlid, and rear arches repaired, bonnet repainted. The car was from a costal town in north of Scotland so probably experienced the most extreme conditions.
To be fair, all of the rust on my car was full repaired properly and I would certainly buy my car back.
To be fair, all of the rust on my car was full repaired properly and I would certainly buy my car back.
Hedgetrimmer said:
Me and the boss both ran M5's. Mine was starting to rust on the inside lip of the rear wheel arch, around the badge on the boot lid and inside the petrol cap. The front wing rusted but this was due to a poor repair rather than BMW build quality. The bosses car was a 2000 model and was rusting all over. He spent £4k having new front wings put on, bootlid, and rear arches repaired, bonnet repainted. The car was from a costal town in north of Scotland so probably experienced the most extreme conditions.
To be fair, all of the rust on my car was full repaired properly and I would certainly buy my car back.
Did you buy some ropey ones?To be fair, all of the rust on my car was full repaired properly and I would certainly buy my car back.
Not really. My car was an ex Hexigon car which had been serviced properly at BMW all its life and had an extented BMW warranty on it. It was in very fine order to look at with no swirl marks in the paint. I bought it from someone who could afford to own it.
Most M5's will rust inside the petrol cap. The boot lid is a very common area for rust. Both are relatively easy repairs.
The bosses car was a dog though!
Most M5's will rust inside the petrol cap. The boot lid is a very common area for rust. Both are relatively easy repairs.
The bosses car was a dog though!
I've been breaking my M5 due to excessive rust on it and bought another one (also rusty but not as bad) and had alot of people turn up in theirs to buy parts. I've found only one of about 15 of them that didn't have rust ranging from minor to very serious. Having now stripped the car down I can say they rust in the following areas
All jack points
Rear subframe mount points
Front wings
Rear arches
Front of the sills
Bottom of the doors
Number plate lights
Boot lock
Leading edge of the boot
Between the bumper and the chassis below the boot
Drain plug holes under the carpet
Seam joins under the car where the chassis is welded
Shadow Trim
Paint also tends to be missing from the rain gutters on the roof if you look deep inside.
Most owners said their cars were rust free until I pointed it out to them. The rust around the jack points and the rear subframe mounts is the most serious.
All jack points
Rear subframe mount points
Front wings
Rear arches
Front of the sills
Bottom of the doors
Number plate lights
Boot lock
Leading edge of the boot
Between the bumper and the chassis below the boot
Drain plug holes under the carpet
Seam joins under the car where the chassis is welded
Shadow Trim
Paint also tends to be missing from the rain gutters on the roof if you look deep inside.
Most owners said their cars were rust free until I pointed it out to them. The rust around the jack points and the rear subframe mounts is the most serious.
Bit of a thread revival, but exactly the question I've been considering for the last few days. Was wondering what everyone's opinion is 3 years on?
Not in any hurry as I commute to work by train, but have always fancied a V8 and both the e39 M5 and e90 M3 are coming within reach.
Personally, my biggest concerns with the e39 would be rust and as the cars get older any non-garaged ones are only likely to get worse. I don't have a spare garage space, so anything I buy would have to live outside. Up until recently I ran a 2006 325i and in the 7 years I had it rust was never an issue.
I also get the feeling that values of the E90 M3 will continue to fall for a fair bit longer as people upgrade to the new M3/M4, so they might be a great buy in 6/12 months time.
Has anyone done the change from a M5 to and M3, would be grateful for any experiences.
S
Not in any hurry as I commute to work by train, but have always fancied a V8 and both the e39 M5 and e90 M3 are coming within reach.
Personally, my biggest concerns with the e39 would be rust and as the cars get older any non-garaged ones are only likely to get worse. I don't have a spare garage space, so anything I buy would have to live outside. Up until recently I ran a 2006 325i and in the 7 years I had it rust was never an issue.
I also get the feeling that values of the E90 M3 will continue to fall for a fair bit longer as people upgrade to the new M3/M4, so they might be a great buy in 6/12 months time.
Has anyone done the change from a M5 to and M3, would be grateful for any experiences.
S
Drive both and decide which you prefer.
E39 is much more muscular low down the rev range. The e92 thrives on being revved. Both great engines but quite different characters.
Also beware that there will be wide variations in the quality of the e39s on the market. Some will drive like tired 15 y.o. cars with worn bushes and so on. Others will have been well looked after and will drive bob on. The e92 is much more likely to feel like a tight modern car.
Physically, they're very similar in size but the e92 handles the twists better. Personally, I think the e92 is a better b-road stormer. The e39 a more muscular cruiser.
Rust is an issue on the e39, but they all go in similar places - around the boot, petrol filler, sills, arches etc. Inevitably better to keep it garaged. And if you can garage it, you can probably insure it on a classic policy. Plus the VED savings.
And, as you said, e92s will continue to depreciate for the next 5-10 years, just like the e36 and e46 before it. Whereas the e39 should be depreciation free, provided you don't stick silly miles on it.
They're both great but only you can decide which you prefer.
E39 is much more muscular low down the rev range. The e92 thrives on being revved. Both great engines but quite different characters.
Also beware that there will be wide variations in the quality of the e39s on the market. Some will drive like tired 15 y.o. cars with worn bushes and so on. Others will have been well looked after and will drive bob on. The e92 is much more likely to feel like a tight modern car.
Physically, they're very similar in size but the e92 handles the twists better. Personally, I think the e92 is a better b-road stormer. The e39 a more muscular cruiser.
Rust is an issue on the e39, but they all go in similar places - around the boot, petrol filler, sills, arches etc. Inevitably better to keep it garaged. And if you can garage it, you can probably insure it on a classic policy. Plus the VED savings.
And, as you said, e92s will continue to depreciate for the next 5-10 years, just like the e36 and e46 before it. Whereas the e39 should be depreciation free, provided you don't stick silly miles on it.
They're both great but only you can decide which you prefer.
Edited by Gruber on Friday 22 August 17:34
My M5 remains a daily driver and sits outside all year. I check the key areas identified in Cemessi s post fairly regularly and other than minor blemishes that I've corrected it remains in great shape and an amusing way to get around. I've just overhauled the suspension and it handles very well, to the point where the brakes are now more of a concern. They are cracking cars but if you are looking at the e9x that's going to offer a lot of comforts that an 02 plate M5 lacks eg damper control, decent sound system, adaptive cruise etc. I should have sold mine a while ago but so far haven't had the heart to! They have a presence that the modern Ms lack.
Thanks for the replies.
I've driven the M3 numerous times, both on road and on the track. Not driven the M5, but have driven a Z8 with the same engine and been a passenger in the M5.
I do like the e39, but have a feeling that whichever one I buy now will be with me for a while. This is probably why I'm concerned about the prospect of rust; I'm less concerned about servicing and preventative maintenance, but constantly having to stay on top of rust does concern me and I can't see any easy way of getting garage space in the next couple of years.
Not really fussed about gadgets/features either. I'm still not sure on DCT vs Manual - on the track DCT was awesome and suited the high revving engine, but I think on the road would be less critical. Driving an auto (not DCT) as a daily driver at the moment and although it's great in a traffic jam I'm finding it annoying the rest of the time.
When buying an e39, is it easy to spot the rust or is it hidden? Given the age, I'm working on the assumption that at least half the M5s listed on autotrader will be pretty poor.
I've driven the M3 numerous times, both on road and on the track. Not driven the M5, but have driven a Z8 with the same engine and been a passenger in the M5.
I do like the e39, but have a feeling that whichever one I buy now will be with me for a while. This is probably why I'm concerned about the prospect of rust; I'm less concerned about servicing and preventative maintenance, but constantly having to stay on top of rust does concern me and I can't see any easy way of getting garage space in the next couple of years.
Not really fussed about gadgets/features either. I'm still not sure on DCT vs Manual - on the track DCT was awesome and suited the high revving engine, but I think on the road would be less critical. Driving an auto (not DCT) as a daily driver at the moment and although it's great in a traffic jam I'm finding it annoying the rest of the time.
When buying an e39, is it easy to spot the rust or is it hidden? Given the age, I'm working on the assumption that at least half the M5s listed on autotrader will be pretty poor.
survivalist said:
When buying an e39, is it easy to spot the rust or is it hidden? Given the age, I'm working on the assumption that at least half the M5s listed on autotrader will be pretty poor.
It's normally easy to spot as it usually forms on wings, bonnets tailgate etc.Good news is these are all fairly easily replaced with items like wings being very cheap to buy. The main one to look for is the sills/jacking points at the front as this can be a more serious repair to rectify, ideally you want to see inside the trim that runs along the sills. I imagine the fuel cap area might also be a bit of an awkward repair, but everything can be fixed.
I think E39 M5 prices have bottomed out, in fact they might actually be past that and just starting to firm up especially for good examples particularly facelift models, so if depreciation is a big concern I would say the E39 will fare better but being older might cost more in maintenance.
Thanks for the info.
I was working on the basis that the big cost on the e39 would be maintenance, compared to the big cost on the E90/92 being depreciation. I agree that M5 prices are pretty stable at the moment, but I guess the downside of that is that good ones are hard to find. By the same token the E90s are in plentiful supply, but many owners and dealers seem unrealsitic about how much they want for them.
In summary, with my sensible hat on, if I decide on the M5 I should move (reasonably) quickly and start looking for a good one. If I decide on the M3, I need to hold fire and wait until prices go down a bit.
Another factor seems to be alternatives. In a similar age range I can't see any competition for the M5. For the M3 there is also the option of the C63AMG and RS4. I'm not that keen on either (although the C63 does sound amazing), but it does put more pressure on prices, theoretically.
I was working on the basis that the big cost on the e39 would be maintenance, compared to the big cost on the E90/92 being depreciation. I agree that M5 prices are pretty stable at the moment, but I guess the downside of that is that good ones are hard to find. By the same token the E90s are in plentiful supply, but many owners and dealers seem unrealsitic about how much they want for them.
In summary, with my sensible hat on, if I decide on the M5 I should move (reasonably) quickly and start looking for a good one. If I decide on the M3, I need to hold fire and wait until prices go down a bit.
Another factor seems to be alternatives. In a similar age range I can't see any competition for the M5. For the M3 there is also the option of the C63AMG and RS4. I'm not that keen on either (although the C63 does sound amazing), but it does put more pressure on prices, theoretically.
survivalist said:
Another factor seems to be alternatives. In a similar age range I can't see any competition for the M5. For the M3 there is also the option of the C63AMG and RS4. I'm not that keen on either (although the C63 does sound amazing), but it does put more pressure on prices, theoretically.
A friend of mine is selling this.http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C532029
It's a stunning car and very much a rival to an e39 m5, being a pervious m5 owner I would find it hard to pick between the two, both have their strengths and weaknesses.
survivalist said:
In summary, with my sensible hat on, if I decide on the M5 I should move (reasonably) quickly and start looking for a good one. If I decide on the M3, I need to hold fire and wait until prices go down a bit.
Easy...find a good M5 run it till M3 prices drop it will lose little to no money anyway, win win!That's if you find yourself able to part with the M5...forgetting about the M for a moment the E92 is a good car but has always left me a bit cold where as the E39 is wonderful automobile which cossets you in a way an E9x can only dream of, although ultimately I'm sure the M3 would be the sharper tool on track etc., depends what matters more to you.
That kind of logic is hard to argue with. I do have a habit of hanging on to cars though, so I might find myself trying to convince myself that I need 2 V8 M Cars in 2 years time. Also a little concerned about ending up with a car with rust - for some reason I'm happy to replace mechanical items, but the idea of continually chasing rust puts me off for some reason.
Might have a look at a few M5s if I get a change. Would I be right in assuming that Pistonheads is a better bet than auto trader given the rarity and the number of potential dogs about?
Might have a look at a few M5s if I get a change. Would I be right in assuming that Pistonheads is a better bet than auto trader given the rarity and the number of potential dogs about?
I've taken the plunge with an E39. As an all-rounder I just wish I'd done this sooner. To me, the 2 winning differences over the newer but similarly sized E90 M3s were the interior in the M3 seemed far too bland, and the suspension/steering tracked camber changes too much and tugged too annoyingly in comparison; away from a track, the M5 was far nicer to drive, more comfortable, and plenty special enough (in terms of noise and top end) to make every pedal-to-the-metal moment a joy.
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