RE: PH buying guide: BMW M3 (E46)
Discussion
arkenphel said:
E30M3SE said:
housen said:
how do i check sub frame
darnt look at mine after this scarey story
its like checking your b
ks haha
Checking it properly requires a ramp and a knowledgeable person that know where to look and what to look for. If there are any cracks...darnt look at mine after this scarey story
its like checking your b
ks haha kS? 
then I read housen's last line and the penny dropped............
"saved weight by ditching luxuries such as electrically adjusted leather seats, air conditioning, satellite navigation and the stereo system. "
yeah, apart from everyone specced A/C and stereos in their CSL's so annoyingly you can't even find one second hand that has the full 110kg weight reduction.
yeah, apart from everyone specced A/C and stereos in their CSL's so annoyingly you can't even find one second hand that has the full 110kg weight reduction.
I owned one for a couple of years, great car but boy was it the most unreliable thing I've owned!!! Suspension, electrics, air-con, all had repairs done...and those brakes are terrible. I didn't like the balance either, but have since found a tight non-pitching car much more to my liking. 
I've had mine for 6 months now as a sensible daily driver and I think the buyers guide waa pretty spot on. I'll add a little detail based on my experiences so far, hope it helps.
Cracked boot floor - My reputable indy tells me that he's only seen two of these in all his years servicing M3's and that BMW immediately honoured the repairs. You have to drop the subframe to check properly. He also told me that it was applicable to a certain VIN range only although I haven't seen this on the forums. Of course there are plenty of pics of horror stories out there but they are the only stories you hear. If you are really worried then there is a company that will strengthen the boot floor for you for around £500. Bear in mind that clunks from the rear are likely to be worn subframe bushes not a cracked floor.
Suspension - Just had my suspension looked at as the car was wandering badly and couldn't be wheel aligned correctly. Cost from an indy was £1350 for subframe carrier bushes, rear trailing arm bushes, track rod ends, a PAS hose, camber bolts and ball joints and a full alignment. I must say the car is now transformed. Anything approaching 60-70k will be needing this kind of work.
Diff noise - grinds like a good 'un in tight corners, apparently they all do it unless they have a gearbox oil additive added.
Tyres - Had 4 x Vredestein Ultrac Sessentos fitted for £720 after a recommendation which was a bargain and they seem like great tyres but you can pay up to £1300 for Pirellis or Michelin.
Brakes - The brakes are more than adequate for fast road use, no need to upgrade unless you are going to get seriously into trackday-ing the car.
Interior - The speakers are rubbish, even the Harmon Kardon system. Pretty cheap and they deteriorate over time. They are also awkward sizes so replacing/upgrading them is expensive. Door handles get stiff and the cable can get detached inside the door which although not expensive is a pita to fix. Door seals always come apart but can be glued.
Wheels - Very very easy to curb the 19" rims and very difficult to find someone to refurb diamond cut wheels without taking days and / or polishing them so they look like gangsta rims!
Gearbox - I have a manual which I love even if it might be slower than the SMG but who cares as it's more fun 95% of the time. It's a bit notchy though.
Engine - Doesn't seem to use any oil although I am afraid of the official service interval of 14,000 miles so I'm changing the oil at half that as do a lot of owners. Oil is expensive though and an oil change at an Indy will set you back £155 or so. Engine is epic once over 4000rpm and sounds great although I was expecting a little more volume so I will be looking for an aftermarket exhaust at some point.
Bad points - It's not a hugely torquey motor and needs winding up although it's still plenty fast enough in any gear and it depends what you are used to. Also I wish there was more / some feel to the steering, it's not brilliant although rock steady it's really not inspiring which is a shame.
I can't think of a better combination of practicality, looks, power, cornering ability than this. I can't understand comments about the car being too expensive to run, it's not a focus or a run of the mill 3 series it's a £50k high performance machine and you should expect costs to match. The number of high milers in the classifieds is testament to the usability and reliability of the car though.
Cracked boot floor - My reputable indy tells me that he's only seen two of these in all his years servicing M3's and that BMW immediately honoured the repairs. You have to drop the subframe to check properly. He also told me that it was applicable to a certain VIN range only although I haven't seen this on the forums. Of course there are plenty of pics of horror stories out there but they are the only stories you hear. If you are really worried then there is a company that will strengthen the boot floor for you for around £500. Bear in mind that clunks from the rear are likely to be worn subframe bushes not a cracked floor.
Suspension - Just had my suspension looked at as the car was wandering badly and couldn't be wheel aligned correctly. Cost from an indy was £1350 for subframe carrier bushes, rear trailing arm bushes, track rod ends, a PAS hose, camber bolts and ball joints and a full alignment. I must say the car is now transformed. Anything approaching 60-70k will be needing this kind of work.
Diff noise - grinds like a good 'un in tight corners, apparently they all do it unless they have a gearbox oil additive added.
Tyres - Had 4 x Vredestein Ultrac Sessentos fitted for £720 after a recommendation which was a bargain and they seem like great tyres but you can pay up to £1300 for Pirellis or Michelin.
Brakes - The brakes are more than adequate for fast road use, no need to upgrade unless you are going to get seriously into trackday-ing the car.
Interior - The speakers are rubbish, even the Harmon Kardon system. Pretty cheap and they deteriorate over time. They are also awkward sizes so replacing/upgrading them is expensive. Door handles get stiff and the cable can get detached inside the door which although not expensive is a pita to fix. Door seals always come apart but can be glued.
Wheels - Very very easy to curb the 19" rims and very difficult to find someone to refurb diamond cut wheels without taking days and / or polishing them so they look like gangsta rims!
Gearbox - I have a manual which I love even if it might be slower than the SMG but who cares as it's more fun 95% of the time. It's a bit notchy though.
Engine - Doesn't seem to use any oil although I am afraid of the official service interval of 14,000 miles so I'm changing the oil at half that as do a lot of owners. Oil is expensive though and an oil change at an Indy will set you back £155 or so. Engine is epic once over 4000rpm and sounds great although I was expecting a little more volume so I will be looking for an aftermarket exhaust at some point.
Bad points - It's not a hugely torquey motor and needs winding up although it's still plenty fast enough in any gear and it depends what you are used to. Also I wish there was more / some feel to the steering, it's not brilliant although rock steady it's really not inspiring which is a shame.
I can't think of a better combination of practicality, looks, power, cornering ability than this. I can't understand comments about the car being too expensive to run, it's not a focus or a run of the mill 3 series it's a £50k high performance machine and you should expect costs to match. The number of high milers in the classifieds is testament to the usability and reliability of the car though.
Al 450 said:
Engine is epic once over 4000rpm and sounds great although I was expecting a little more volume so I will be looking for an aftermarket exhaust at some point.
Please tell me you have tried driving with the rear seats down. I'm not kidding when I say how much it transforms the sound.iandews said:
I owned one for a couple of years, great car but boy was it the most unreliable thing I've owned!!! Suspension, electrics, air-con, all had repairs done...and those brakes are terrible. I didn't like the balance either, but have since found a tight non-pitching car much more to my liking.
Vauxhall Astra 1.7D Sport? 
To add a bit more perspective, mines in for an oil service today and had the following:
Oil Service, 2 new conti M3 tyres on the front (19"), 1 rear spring (the other snapped) and 2 new rear brake pads.
Just under a grand.
They are not extortionate to run but you do need to keep on top of the upkeep. In my year of owning a very tidy example, I have spent well over 2 grand on maintenance including having the diamond cut alloys refurbished.
Oil Service, 2 new conti M3 tyres on the front (19"), 1 rear spring (the other snapped) and 2 new rear brake pads.
Just under a grand.
They are not extortionate to run but you do need to keep on top of the upkeep. In my year of owning a very tidy example, I have spent well over 2 grand on maintenance including having the diamond cut alloys refurbished.
Epic cars - just put some money aside for running costs. Just had an Inspection 2 done at a main dealer at 40,000 miles and you can barter them down on price - do not accept the first price they give you. brakes/discs are costly for OEM but they dont need replacing often - that has been the most costly thing ive had to have done. Very reliable cars that are fast and still look good on the roads.
if you need more there is the Hartge option, de H50 with the E39 M5 and between 400 and 460hp
they also had one or 2? with the M62 5.0 and a supercharger pumping out 550hp something like that.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8PSzyVBvuw
they also had one or 2? with the M62 5.0 and a supercharger pumping out 550hp something like that.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8PSzyVBvuw
iandews said:
I owned one for a couple of years, great car but boy was it the most unreliable thing I've owned!!! Suspension, electrics, air-con, all had repairs done...and those brakes are terrible. I didn't like the balance either, but have since found a tight non-pitching car much more to my liking.
You must've bought a bad un! I had a convertible for 5 yrs and covered 40k miles in it.Only problem I had was rear springs.I sold it at 78k miles and had the RTAB's done for sale as piece of mind for the new owner.It did have a pretty easy life though.
This is still one of the finest driving machines you can buy at any price. I have friend who is a development race driver for Ferrari for many years. He does lots miles all over Europe. What does he drive and old e46 M3. I also have a client that trades in and races the finest cars in the world, F40's, Enzo's, Vyron's . . . etc the world's best job? What do they rate above all cars and drive day to day? Yep you guessed it an M3 CSL!
Myself I love them.
Myself I love them.
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