Discussion
Zod said:
Skrambles said:
Zod said:
Well, it would involve publicity, of course, but carefully targeted publicity.
Why haven't you done this already? I would be on the warpath if this happened to me twice!If there's a serious problem and you believe you are rightly pissed off and have the ability to help, the loan of a car is the last thing to keep you happy surely?
HoHoHo said:
Zod said:
Skrambles said:
Zod said:
Well, it would involve publicity, of course, but carefully targeted publicity.
Why haven't you done this already? I would be on the warpath if this happened to me twice!If there's a serious problem and you believe you are rightly pissed off and have the ability to help, the loan of a car is the last thing to keep you happy surely?
Zod said:
Keeps me (or rather my wife) in a car until I get a a new one and the new one will be ordered subject to the express condition that the vulnerability is remedied. They dealt with my complaint veyr quickly and efficiently. I strongly suspect they are trying to deal with the problem below the radar (although it's pretty well on eveyr radar screen!).
Fair enough.By chance my wife's 8 week old X5 was hit by a hail storm in the South of France 2 weeks ago and the damage is somewhere around £18k to fix
Two points....
The insurance company won't replace with a new one because the damage is less than 60% of the value of the car (even though the entire car needs paint/panels etc..)
Having had a meeting today with the assessor I asked about the BMW key/stolen problems and his view was that he's not seen any more being stolen than have been over the last however many years.
I understand he may not wish to tell me the truth, equally he has no reason to lie - he can suggest there are problems and our insurance will increase accordingly.
To be honest whilst I know there's a problem, I'm not sure who to believe!
(and sorry you had yours stolen, can you please arrange for ours to go fairly quickly )
Zod said:
BTW the 40d gives much better fuel economy around town, but I think it may even be worse on the motorway. The needle sticks on 20mpg at a 95 mph cruise.
I think the wife gets about 20 mpg around town - we get about 32 mpg or better on motorway cruising. We're taking it to Germany quite soon and will see what it's like when cruising at 95 mph!Skrambles said:
Zod said:
In a recent dream, it was possible on the M1 on a Saturday in August.
In my experience, that dream turns into a nightmare in gridlock North of Luton ...HoHoHo said:
Fair enough.
By chance my wife's 8 week old X5 was hit by a hail storm in the South of France 2 weeks ago and the damage is somewhere around £18k to fix
Two points....
The insurance company won't replace with a new one because the damage is less than 60% of the value of the car (even though the entire car needs paint/panels etc..)
Having had a meeting today with the assessor I asked about the BMW key/stolen problems and his view was that he's not seen any more being stolen than have been over the last however many years.
I understand he may not wish to tell me the truth, equally he has no reason to lie - he can suggest there are problems and our insurance will increase accordingly.
To be honest whilst I know there's a problem, I'm not sure who to believe!
(and sorry you had yours stolen, can you please arrange for ours to go fairly quickly )
I maintain that irrospective of security if a thief wants your car he will get it, some how anyway. It does seem regional, to north of england and london area, however it doesnt seem unique to BMW.By chance my wife's 8 week old X5 was hit by a hail storm in the South of France 2 weeks ago and the damage is somewhere around £18k to fix
Two points....
The insurance company won't replace with a new one because the damage is less than 60% of the value of the car (even though the entire car needs paint/panels etc..)
Having had a meeting today with the assessor I asked about the BMW key/stolen problems and his view was that he's not seen any more being stolen than have been over the last however many years.
I understand he may not wish to tell me the truth, equally he has no reason to lie - he can suggest there are problems and our insurance will increase accordingly.
To be honest whilst I know there's a problem, I'm not sure who to believe!
(and sorry you had yours stolen, can you please arrange for ours to go fairly quickly )
I see previously posts of threatening to write adverse publicity?? Do you think that will help? Surely that will only serve to slow down the thoughts of people buying M cars, then affecting re sale values, as well as insurance premiums???
Maybe best option is a tracker and a secondary imobiliser??? Unless of course you have an X5 with £18,000 of damage, in which case leave it open with a spare key in it!!!!!
G
Eastern boy said:
I maintain that irrospective of security if a thief wants your car he will get it, some how anyway. It does seem regional, to north of england and london area, however it doesnt seem unique to BMW.
I see previously posts of threatening to write adverse publicity?? Do you think that will help? Surely that will only serve to slow down the thoughts of people buying M cars, then affecting re sale values, as well as insurance premiums???
Maybe best option is a tracker and a secondary imobiliser??? Unless of course you have an X5 with £18,000 of damage, in which case leave it open with a spare key in it!!!!!
G
Agree that "where-there's-a-will" and all that, but if there is a genuine deficiency in the security of these cars, I don't buy the argument that trackers (or any other customer-paid remedy) is the solution. I see previously posts of threatening to write adverse publicity?? Do you think that will help? Surely that will only serve to slow down the thoughts of people buying M cars, then affecting re sale values, as well as insurance premiums???
Maybe best option is a tracker and a secondary imobiliser??? Unless of course you have an X5 with £18,000 of damage, in which case leave it open with a spare key in it!!!!!
G
Frankly it's down to the manufacturer to address it. Sorry to be candid, and I'm a huge fan of the brand.
Reminds me a bit of the criticism Porsche got for the alleged design flaw in the intermediate shaft that led to a high rate of catastrophic engine failures. Lots of vocal disappointment with Porsche as a manufacturer and they clearly recognised the issue (eg. Warranty extension costs rocketed up, goodwill gestures reduced). Anyway, ultimately it doesn't seem to have affected 996/997 sales. Maybe we don't vote with our wallets as much as we should.
Eastern boy said:
It does seem regional, to north of england and london area, however it doesnt seem unique to BMW.
...
Maybe best option is a tracker and a secondary imobiliser???
G
Another dealer mentioned the same thing to me (about thefts being common to Merc/Audi as well as BMW). From the media/Internet chatter, it does seem to be focussed on BMW. If it is as common to other makes, feels like BMW has gotten harsh/unfair treatment. ...
Maybe best option is a tracker and a secondary imobiliser???
G
More importantly Greg, I'd be really interested in your position as a dealer, especially as I'm interested in ordering an X6 M50d. Specifically, are Eastern happy to install secondary immobilisers without affecting warrnties, etc ? From the main thread in the General BMW section, I saw that some dealers have installed in-line switches and/or relocated the OBD ports for customers. Interested to know if you guys would offer that to customers too ? Reason for me question is that the more I read, the less I would be comfortable buying a car without this issue being addressed.
Also, back on topic, I read in the brochure that the engine is largely assembled by hand in Munich due to "limited build numbers and other special requirements".
Not sure whether this is marketing spin, but I'd be interested to know what the other special requirements are, in case anyone knows...
Greg - this is all consistent with your feedback about lead times potentially being much longer than for the other diesel engines.
Not sure whether this is marketing spin, but I'd be interested to know what the other special requirements are, in case anyone knows...
Greg - this is all consistent with your feedback about lead times potentially being much longer than for the other diesel engines.
David 997t said:
Sorry for my ignorance but what is the talk about BMW's with comfort access being easier to steal?(thats how I've read the posts..) My one has this and I would love to know if there is a problem!!
There's a reported weakness in the keyless entry system (not just BMW...it also applies to Audi, Ford etc with keyless entry fitted). Others may be able to comment more accurately but I understand that it's possible for the non-keyholder to gain access (and start the car).From what I've read it requires technical know how but there is a simple, albeit annoying, solution...I keep my fob in a tin these days.
Kananga said:
Also, back on topic, I read in the brochure that the engine is largely assembled by hand in Munich due to "limited build numbers and other special requirements".
Not sure whether this is marketing spin, but I'd be interested to know what the other special requirements are, in case anyone knows...
Greg - this is all consistent with your feedback about lead times potentially being much longer than for the other diesel engines.
The issue with supply is as you say with the scarcity of the engines, plus the fact that the cars are built in the US it all adds to the lengthy lead times, for example from assembly to arrival at uk can take 8 weeks on its own. In june they quoted up to 8 months for supply, and current best guess is production december delivery late January / February.Not sure whether this is marketing spin, but I'd be interested to know what the other special requirements are, in case anyone knows...
Greg - this is all consistent with your feedback about lead times potentially being much longer than for the other diesel engines.
G
Kananga said:
Another dealer mentioned the same thing to me (about thefts being common to Merc/Audi as well as BMW). From the media/Internet chatter, it does seem to be focussed on BMW. If it is as common to other makes, feels like BMW has gotten harsh/unfair treatment.
More importantly Greg, I'd be really interested in your position as a dealer, especially as I'm interested in ordering an X6 M50d. Specifically, are Eastern happy to install secondary immobilisers without affecting warrnties, etc ? From the main thread in the General BMW section, I saw that some dealers have installed in-line switches and/or relocated the OBD ports for customers. Interested to know if you guys would offer that to customers too ? Reason for me question is that the more I read, the less I would be comfortable buying a car without this issue being addressed.
I have been asked about the issue once at dealer level in the past month only. If you look at the number of BMW's either Sold or in existence in the Uk just now, compared to the numbers stolen, it is such a small percentage, and as i have mentioned before If someone really wants your car, they will always find away. My understanding too is that it is not unique to BMW, no ideas to what extent, however I am unaware of any vehicles stolen this way certainly in Scotland at the moment, and discussing with various Technical people there has been no communication on the situation.More importantly Greg, I'd be really interested in your position as a dealer, especially as I'm interested in ordering an X6 M50d. Specifically, are Eastern happy to install secondary immobilisers without affecting warrnties, etc ? From the main thread in the General BMW section, I saw that some dealers have installed in-line switches and/or relocated the OBD ports for customers. Interested to know if you guys would offer that to customers too ? Reason for me question is that the more I read, the less I would be comfortable buying a car without this issue being addressed.
I see no issues in installing an additional immobiliser, in the same way we install trackers and other security devices. I recall my Ariel atom had a very simple fob based immobiliser that had to be held to a sensor for a few seconds to activate ignition. I guess it's all up to the individual purchaser and level of concern
G
JCHill said:
There's a reported weakness in the keyless entry system (not just BMW...it also applies to Audi, Ford etc with keyless entry fitted). Others may be able to comment more accurately but I understand that it's possible for the non-keyholder to gain access (and start the car).
From what I've read it requires technical know how but there is a simple, albeit annoying, solution...I keep my fob in a tin these days.
So I take it from your post that if you have some technical know how it is very easy to steal a car with comfort access?? Surely this would void your insurance as the car is stolen using the key, (sort of!!)as the key is within range??From what I've read it requires technical know how but there is a simple, albeit annoying, solution...I keep my fob in a tin these days.
David 997t said:
JCHill said:
There's a reported weakness in the keyless entry system (not just BMW...it also applies to Audi, Ford etc with keyless entry fitted). Others may be able to comment more accurately but I understand that it's possible for the non-keyholder to gain access (and start the car).
From what I've read it requires technical know how but there is a simple, albeit annoying, solution...I keep my fob in a tin these days.
So I take it from your post that if you have some technical know how it is very easy to steal a car with comfort access?? Surely this would void your insurance as the car is stolen using the key, (sort of!!)as the key is within range??From what I've read it requires technical know how but there is a simple, albeit annoying, solution...I keep my fob in a tin these days.
David 997t said:
So I take it from your post that if you have some technical know how it is very easy to steal a car with comfort access?? Surely this would void your insurance as the car is stolen using the key, (sort of!!)as the key is within range??
This is going off-topic but as I understand it the weakness was exposed by a professor at ETH Zurich. He tested 8 manufacturers and bypassed all the keyless systems. Google can tell you more.However, to put this into perspective, it's not a "tennis ball" hack like those seen on old Fords. It requires equipment and coordination. We're talking dedicated car criminals only.
I can't imagine insurance companies blaming the owners as the owner isn't displaying any neglect towards the security of their vehicle.
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