Mapping of M5's
Discussion
Out of pure interest (and possible near-future intent), who are the 'right' people to see when mapping E60/1 M5's? I know of 3 main providers in the UK: DMS, Evolve and CA Automotive but im sure there are more.
Of these 3 providers ive read a fair bit about hype and hope, actual figures vs promised figures, value vs non-value and limits of performance vs durability. From this reading ive got an order of preference in my head, but as much of the research is from slightly less well heeled members of the M-brigade on other forums and video hosting sites im keen to know what the PH guys would suggest, preferably from experience.
My criteria are:
Not interested in peak power claims, but obviously a good increase is nice.
Better drivability, as is much talked about when mapping M5's. More torque through the range etc. Would be nice to see if the M5 can really be made more user friendly when you dont want to be pedalling it around the rev range when just pottering through town.
Safety is paramount. Map must be safe and professional and i dont do 'chip tuners' who just plug and play a code that'll get me a 1-billion BHP boost for £5.
De-limit (might do VMax at some point).
Good aftersales reputation. Want someone who will offer support if there's a niggle rather than a tuner who takes the money and runs. Also, should my dealer rewrite software id want a guarantee that the tuner will reload the map FOC.
Ive had cars tuned correctly and incorrectly in the past and although often the peak BHP is very similar the differences between the driver experiences is monumental. I had a supposed MTM stage 1 map loaded on to my RS6 soon after i bought it in 2008. The peak power figure was great and as advertised but i was convinced something was up. Being a noob to the prestige tuning world (had tuned Pug 205 GTi-6's previous and Mitsi Shoguns with piggyback ECUs but thats all simple stuff) at the time i hadnt really done any research and went for the first bright spark i saw. Turned out the RS6 gearbox has to be mapped to suit the revised engine map else the gearbox tells the engine to cut torque above standard output. The engine could still put out an increased BHP but it was regulated by the gearbox software in order to protect itself. The box was not mapped in my case and result was that i had it redone by a superb company called MRC who only really advertise via the RS and Porsche forums. They are now world renowned in the RS tuning field and its this kind of tuner that im looking for with the BM.
Who's your recommendation?
Eddie
Of these 3 providers ive read a fair bit about hype and hope, actual figures vs promised figures, value vs non-value and limits of performance vs durability. From this reading ive got an order of preference in my head, but as much of the research is from slightly less well heeled members of the M-brigade on other forums and video hosting sites im keen to know what the PH guys would suggest, preferably from experience.
My criteria are:
Not interested in peak power claims, but obviously a good increase is nice.
Better drivability, as is much talked about when mapping M5's. More torque through the range etc. Would be nice to see if the M5 can really be made more user friendly when you dont want to be pedalling it around the rev range when just pottering through town.
Safety is paramount. Map must be safe and professional and i dont do 'chip tuners' who just plug and play a code that'll get me a 1-billion BHP boost for £5.
De-limit (might do VMax at some point).
Good aftersales reputation. Want someone who will offer support if there's a niggle rather than a tuner who takes the money and runs. Also, should my dealer rewrite software id want a guarantee that the tuner will reload the map FOC.
Ive had cars tuned correctly and incorrectly in the past and although often the peak BHP is very similar the differences between the driver experiences is monumental. I had a supposed MTM stage 1 map loaded on to my RS6 soon after i bought it in 2008. The peak power figure was great and as advertised but i was convinced something was up. Being a noob to the prestige tuning world (had tuned Pug 205 GTi-6's previous and Mitsi Shoguns with piggyback ECUs but thats all simple stuff) at the time i hadnt really done any research and went for the first bright spark i saw. Turned out the RS6 gearbox has to be mapped to suit the revised engine map else the gearbox tells the engine to cut torque above standard output. The engine could still put out an increased BHP but it was regulated by the gearbox software in order to protect itself. The box was not mapped in my case and result was that i had it redone by a superb company called MRC who only really advertise via the RS and Porsche forums. They are now world renowned in the RS tuning field and its this kind of tuner that im looking for with the BM.
Who's your recommendation?
Eddie
Evolve seems to have nailed it: http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/e60-m5-e61-m5-tou... They also do the AlphaN modification.
For further discussion, also see http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/e60-m5-e61-m5-tou...
For further discussion, also see http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/e60-m5-e61-m5-tou...
I'd think long and hard before you do this, especially if you have a warranty. I am SURE that a dealer will be able to spot it. On mine the red line indicator had moved very slightly.
VMax is alot of fun, but the E61 is a heavy car, and the slowing down bit at the end is very scary. Realistically you're not going to get more than 185 without seriously expensive mods. The guy from Evolve was at VMax when I was there - very nice guy, and an awesome valvetronic exhaust. Just to be clear, they're NOT the people I used for my re-map.
My car is now throwing up engine management errors, and on Saturday went into reduced power mode. I am almost certain I'm going to ask for it to be returned to stock.
VMax is alot of fun, but the E61 is a heavy car, and the slowing down bit at the end is very scary. Realistically you're not going to get more than 185 without seriously expensive mods. The guy from Evolve was at VMax when I was there - very nice guy, and an awesome valvetronic exhaust. Just to be clear, they're NOT the people I used for my re-map.
My car is now throwing up engine management errors, and on Saturday went into reduced power mode. I am almost certain I'm going to ask for it to be returned to stock.
omniflow said:
I'd think long and hard before you do this, especially if you have a warranty. I am SURE that a dealer will be able to spot it. On mine the red line indicator had moved very slightly.
VMax is alot of fun, but the E61 is a heavy car, and the slowing down bit at the end is very scary. Realistically you're not going to get more than 185 without seriously expensive mods. The guy from Evolve was at VMax when I was there - very nice guy, and an awesome valvetronic exhaust. Just to be clear, they're NOT the people I used for my re-map.
My car is now throwing up engine management errors, and on Saturday went into reduced power mode. I am almost certain I'm going to ask for it to be returned to stock.
Ouchy! Who did you use? PM me if youd prefer.VMax is alot of fun, but the E61 is a heavy car, and the slowing down bit at the end is very scary. Realistically you're not going to get more than 185 without seriously expensive mods. The guy from Evolve was at VMax when I was there - very nice guy, and an awesome valvetronic exhaust. Just to be clear, they're NOT the people I used for my re-map.
My car is now throwing up engine management errors, and on Saturday went into reduced power mode. I am almost certain I'm going to ask for it to be returned to stock.
Vixpy1 said:
Its Pointless IMHO, despite what companies claim
Listen to the man with a rolling road who see's a whole host of different cars and their the results day in day out.IMHE, M's are pretty much sorted on the mapping front, the new generation Turbo's may offer more in the future though, then again it makes it easier to hand grenade them too.........
Yes, generally if we'll serviced the v10 will make the factory stated output.
I wish they still made it but updated it with CSL mods mated to the new M5's dct box. All the work for this has actually been done. Stick it in a new M1 body a la Audi and their R8 and Bob's your uncle. Do you think it would sell?
I wish they still made it but updated it with CSL mods mated to the new M5's dct box. All the work for this has actually been done. Stick it in a new M1 body a la Audi and their R8 and Bob's your uncle. Do you think it would sell?
Mine made quoted factory figures when dyno'd last year. Took 3 hard runs to rid the ecu of my grandma like driving habits though. Damned intelligent programming.
As I've said, we all know you can't get much more zip from the S85 engine with just a map, but the drivability thing does seem to have some foundation.
As I've said, we all know you can't get much more zip from the S85 engine with just a map, but the drivability thing does seem to have some foundation.
rassi said:
Vixpy1 said:
Its Pointless IMHO, despite what companies claim
Sorry to take this slightly OT, but do the E60 M5 generally make the factory claimed figures (unlike the E36 M3 Evo or E39 M5)?
t on 95. Usually 490+ is expected on Vpower.Vixpy1 said:
Yep, providing its on decent fuel, they run like a bag of st on 95. Usually 490+ is expected on Vpower.
Are you 100% sure about this? t on 95. Usually 490+ is expected on Vpower.It's not what I remember reading from various fuel tests. Apparently the E6x has some special knock detectors that do things very differently than other sensors and the power is not affected. When tested on 95 and 98+ RON it ran the same.
Contigo said:
Vixpy1 said:
Yep, providing its on decent fuel, they run like a bag of st on 95. Usually 490+ is expected on Vpower.
Are you 100% sure about this? t on 95. Usually 490+ is expected on Vpower.It's not what I remember reading from various fuel tests. Apparently the E6x has some special knock detectors that do things very differently than other sensors and the power is not affected. When tested on 95 and 98+ RON it ran the same.
Vixpy1 said:
Can only speak from experience
Yep that's fine I just wanted to see your thoughts on it really as on the odd time I've run mine on 95 it has been fine and not felt any different at all. If you have first hand experience of cars running lower on the RR when fuelled on 95 only then I can understand those thoughts. It's interesting though all the tech in the M5 with the plugs doing the knock sensing.Contigo said:
Yep that's fine I just wanted to see your thoughts on it really as on the odd time I've run mine on 95 it has been fine and not felt any different at all. If you have first hand experience of cars running lower on the RR when fuelled on 95 only then I can understand those thoughts. It's interesting though all the tech in the M5 with the plugs doing the knock sensing.
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