BMW E39 M5 Wipers stopped working/not working relay problem
Discussion
Hi all,
Thought I'd post on here with a few pics I couldn't find about changing the relay, along with my own definition of the problem after my recent experience for the next poor soul in my position.
Symptoms of my problem:
Wipers left on rain sensing intermittent mode, stopped after 40 mins driving (failed in down position consistently when repeated not on screen)
Once stopped they wouldn't work on any mode (surely this is poor safety design BMW!!)
Fuse fine/no odd sounds
Once left for 20 mins with engine off they worked again (left on full wipe NOT intermittent mode) and continued to work fine for another hour of driving,
As soon as put back on intermittent mode they failed again within a few sweeps
Worked fine again following morning for the 1h 30min drive home (avoiding intermittent mode)
Note: Oddly with relay removed the washer jets work fine (with no wipers) but when failed nothing worked at all. Not even washer jets.
How it happened to me:
First week of ownership and I'm driving at 'M5 cruising speeds' on the dual carriageway last night, pitch black and in fairly heavy rain when approx. 40 mins into my journey all of a sudden my wipers stop working!!
After some fairly flustered pulling and pressing and flicking through the settings on the stalk I resorted to crawling along in the slow lane with my head out of the window getting v.wet until I could pull over.
Found the fuse box in the roof of the glove compartment and took out 'fuse 1 - 30a' for the wipers but it was fine, put it back in and tried again.. still no joy.
Then after doing some quick internet browsing on my phone I came across common stories of the relay problem and it being fine once cool.. so after 20 mins of swearing and considering phoning the AA I tried again and it all worked fine.
Other stories I found of the same thing:
http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/e39-m5-e52-z8-dis...
http://forum.bmw5.co.uk/topic/73917-wipers-playing...
Relay location and removal instructions:
The relay is located in a box in the engine bay under the right hand side (uk RHD car) interior fan air filter box as below:
To remove the air box you need to pop off the air filter lid (metal clip no screws) and un-clip the oval vent on the left hand side of the box by prising up the three plastic clips along the top and wiggling the cover back (there are no clips underneath - thank you bmw.
The whole box assembly then pulls out lifting from the oval inlet side first, revealing the relay container box:
There are four allen key bolts to open the relay container. To access the back two you need to remove a small black cover, which you do by undoing this 8mm nut and lifting from away from the nut end (don't just yank it up as it slots into clips at the other end):
Once you've undone the four Allen head bolts, the cover should lift straight of and it should look something like this:
The relay for the wipers is this tall brown looking one here (comes out pretty easily with a wiggle, no clips):
The part number for the relay should be 6136 8 384 505 and mine was a 'Siemens' relay. Replacement cost me £15.85+vat from euro car parts.
No fun at all losing your wipers and I'm pretty disappointed in BMW for not having a simple backup which allows the wipers to work without the intermittent function which is what happened on my old 944 when the relay failed. However I hope this thread is an easy find and helps speed up the process for the next unlucky fellow.
Thought I'd post on here with a few pics I couldn't find about changing the relay, along with my own definition of the problem after my recent experience for the next poor soul in my position.
Symptoms of my problem:
Wipers left on rain sensing intermittent mode, stopped after 40 mins driving (failed in down position consistently when repeated not on screen)
Once stopped they wouldn't work on any mode (surely this is poor safety design BMW!!)
Fuse fine/no odd sounds
Once left for 20 mins with engine off they worked again (left on full wipe NOT intermittent mode) and continued to work fine for another hour of driving,
As soon as put back on intermittent mode they failed again within a few sweeps
Worked fine again following morning for the 1h 30min drive home (avoiding intermittent mode)
Note: Oddly with relay removed the washer jets work fine (with no wipers) but when failed nothing worked at all. Not even washer jets.
How it happened to me:
First week of ownership and I'm driving at 'M5 cruising speeds' on the dual carriageway last night, pitch black and in fairly heavy rain when approx. 40 mins into my journey all of a sudden my wipers stop working!!
After some fairly flustered pulling and pressing and flicking through the settings on the stalk I resorted to crawling along in the slow lane with my head out of the window getting v.wet until I could pull over.
Found the fuse box in the roof of the glove compartment and took out 'fuse 1 - 30a' for the wipers but it was fine, put it back in and tried again.. still no joy.
Then after doing some quick internet browsing on my phone I came across common stories of the relay problem and it being fine once cool.. so after 20 mins of swearing and considering phoning the AA I tried again and it all worked fine.
Other stories I found of the same thing:
http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/e39-m5-e52-z8-dis...
http://forum.bmw5.co.uk/topic/73917-wipers-playing...
Relay location and removal instructions:
The relay is located in a box in the engine bay under the right hand side (uk RHD car) interior fan air filter box as below:
To remove the air box you need to pop off the air filter lid (metal clip no screws) and un-clip the oval vent on the left hand side of the box by prising up the three plastic clips along the top and wiggling the cover back (there are no clips underneath - thank you bmw.
The whole box assembly then pulls out lifting from the oval inlet side first, revealing the relay container box:
There are four allen key bolts to open the relay container. To access the back two you need to remove a small black cover, which you do by undoing this 8mm nut and lifting from away from the nut end (don't just yank it up as it slots into clips at the other end):
Once you've undone the four Allen head bolts, the cover should lift straight of and it should look something like this:
The relay for the wipers is this tall brown looking one here (comes out pretty easily with a wiggle, no clips):
The part number for the relay should be 6136 8 384 505 and mine was a 'Siemens' relay. Replacement cost me £15.85+vat from euro car parts.
No fun at all losing your wipers and I'm pretty disappointed in BMW for not having a simple backup which allows the wipers to work without the intermittent function which is what happened on my old 944 when the relay failed. However I hope this thread is an easy find and helps speed up the process for the next unlucky fellow.
Had something similar on my Z4, but it was under warranty so it was replaced & recoded FOC.
I'd recommend getting some Rain-X or similar (Aquapel, Rain Magic, Farecla, Turtle Wax, Meguiars, DiamondBrite, Mer, Ombrella, Carlack, Collinite, Nanolex, GTechnic, Duragloss, Wolf, etc.) on the screen and then you can run at 40mph+ without worrying about using/failing wipers.
I'd recommend getting some Rain-X or similar (Aquapel, Rain Magic, Farecla, Turtle Wax, Meguiars, DiamondBrite, Mer, Ombrella, Carlack, Collinite, Nanolex, GTechnic, Duragloss, Wolf, etc.) on the screen and then you can run at 40mph+ without worrying about using/failing wipers.
Thats a really handy piece of info, thanks for taking the time to post up a detailed process. Had my M5 4 yrs and luckily not suffered this problem yet but at least i know what to do if it happens.
As the other person said i use Rain X also so could still drive without wipers for a while with no problems as the water just beads off the screen.
Thanks
Simon.
As the other person said i use Rain X also so could still drive without wipers for a while with no problems as the water just beads off the screen.
Thanks
Simon.
I have BMW 530D E39 with same issue, driving to Dublin on Motorway wipers just stopped dead. And the rain was really heavy. Cruising @ 90mph in the fast lane, what was worse was there was no lay-by to pull into, quick thinking I just turned the engine off and restarted and the wipers went again. So so close to a major crash. Any ways hope changing the relay works and thanks for the heads up on the RainX, i'll not leave home without it. BMW I'm disgusted at this design fault, it's not that its inconvenient it's just DANGEROUS!!!
m48ley said:
I have BMW 530D E39 with same issue, driving to Dublin on Motorway wipers just stopped dead. And the rain was really heavy. Cruising @ 90mph in the fast lane, what was worse was there was no lay-by to pull into, quick thinking I just turned the engine off and restarted and the wipers went again. So so close to a major crash. Any ways hope changing the relay works and thanks for the heads up on the RainX, i'll not leave home without it. BMW I'm disgusted at this design fault, it's not that its inconvenient it's just DANGEROUS!!!
Ehhh...I had a similar problem with my M5. 4:30am start and it started to drizzle, flicked wipers to intermittent and nothing happened. I knew about the relay problem and had a spare in the boot (along with fuel pump relay) so stopped and replaced it - plenty of swearing getting the rear bolt on the ECU cover off!! After replacement I tried the wipers again, still nothing!! I also noticed that the washer, including headlight washer was not working.
After quite a lot of messing about I found that if i turned the ignition off and waited several minutes, the set the wipers to high speed BEFORE turning the ignition back on then they worked.
In the end it turned out that the low speed coil of the wiper motor had shorted, as soon as this was selected the General Module detected it and shut the wash wipe system down.
After quite a lot of messing about I found that if i turned the ignition off and waited several minutes, the set the wipers to high speed BEFORE turning the ignition back on then they worked.
In the end it turned out that the low speed coil of the wiper motor had shorted, as soon as this was selected the General Module detected it and shut the wash wipe system down.
Schermerhorn said:
Too many electronics spoiling very simple things and the overall driving experience on these cars.
If I ever get an M car again it is going to be a simple minimum electronics BMW Z4 M coupe. I suspect it'll be a pure 'M' driving experience too.
Last time I drove one it had wipers, not sure that it's an M specific issue...but if you want to pull them off for a purer driving experience go for it If I ever get an M car again it is going to be a simple minimum electronics BMW Z4 M coupe. I suspect it'll be a pure 'M' driving experience too.
tjlazer said:
Schermerhorn said:
Too many electronics spoiling very simple things and the overall driving experience on these cars.
If I ever get an M car again it is going to be a simple minimum electronics BMW Z4 M coupe. I suspect it'll be a pure 'M' driving experience too.
Last time I drove one it had wipers, not sure that it's an M specific issue...but if you want to pull them off for a purer driving experience go for it If I ever get an M car again it is going to be a simple minimum electronics BMW Z4 M coupe. I suspect it'll be a pure 'M' driving experience too.
No what I meant was that simple things like wipers should not fail on any car or if they do, there should be a quick way of getting them working again instead of pulling plastic pieces out from under the bonnet etc.
I do miss 'back to basics' motoring, sure you don't get modern day luxuries but on the whole there is a certain pleasure in driving and not having to worry about anything. With modern cars a little symbol appears on the dash and it tends to panic people. This is why I've kept my VW B5 Passat for so long; I just get in it and drive it and worry about very little.
TheAngryDog said:
You said in your is f
ked thread that you may get an F10 M5. What's changed?
I change my mind more often than a woman ked thread that you may get an F10 M5. What's changed?
Should have elaborated abit more (hard to type when you're typing off your mobile), if I wanted a no thrills back to basics M car, the model I'd choose would be the Z4 M coupe or roadster. To me they embody the pure M car spirit.
However, looking for something like for like to replace the M6 - ie luxury, power, speed, etc - I'd love the F10 M5.
Schermerhorn said:
I change my mind more often than a woman
Should have elaborated abit more (hard to type when you're typing off your mobile), if I wanted a no thrills back to basics M car, the model I'd choose would be the Z4 M coupe or roadster. To me they embody the pure M car spirit.
However, looking for something like for like to replace the M6 - ie luxury, power, speed, etc - I'd love the F10 M5.
I know how you mean, typing on a mobile is tedious!Should have elaborated abit more (hard to type when you're typing off your mobile), if I wanted a no thrills back to basics M car, the model I'd choose would be the Z4 M coupe or roadster. To me they embody the pure M car spirit.
However, looking for something like for like to replace the M6 - ie luxury, power, speed, etc - I'd love the F10 M5.
That makes sense to me. Would you not consider an E46 or E36?
I myself keep toying with the idea of an E60 next year and having a little war chest but worry about what might break. I want a V10!
TheAngryDog said:
Schermerhorn said:
I change my mind more often than a woman
Should have elaborated abit more (hard to type when you're typing off your mobile), if I wanted a no thrills back to basics M car, the model I'd choose would be the Z4 M coupe or roadster. To me they embody the pure M car spirit.
However, looking for something like for like to replace the M6 - ie luxury, power, speed, etc - I'd love the F10 M5.
I know how you mean, typing on a mobile is tedious!Should have elaborated abit more (hard to type when you're typing off your mobile), if I wanted a no thrills back to basics M car, the model I'd choose would be the Z4 M coupe or roadster. To me they embody the pure M car spirit.
However, looking for something like for like to replace the M6 - ie luxury, power, speed, etc - I'd love the F10 M5.
That makes sense to me. Would you not consider an E46 or E36?
I myself keep toying with the idea of an E60 next year and having a little war chest but worry about what might break. I want a V10!
I'm not just saying that because I have one but because of the engine factor; last of the breed, high revving, F1 technology (however tenuous that may be) etc etc - people will want it and it will always remain desirable in my opinion. Nothing else shares the same engine, it was totally unique to the M6 and the M5.
Even in 10 years time, I don't think mine will be worth less than £10,000 - it is the sort of car you want to maintain and look after whereas with other more 'robust' cars you sort of develop a carefree attitude towards the end of ownership.
Scratch that itch before they fall completely out of AUC circulation! The engine, power and noise are incredible. I remember buying mine and revving it in an underground carpark, people from outside were looking around to see which car was making that sound
This issue hit my E39 530i on xmas eve, due an MOT on the 29th Dec.
Found that on restarting the ignition, the wipers only worked when the stalk was set to the highest speed, all other positions resulted in no movement, wipers also no longer park when moving the stalk down, washer jets still functioning.
Thinking it was the relay, I replaced this with a known working one, but still the same issue remains, also putting the relay in the known working vehicle the wipers functioned correctly, so I presume the relay is not at fault.
Any ideas, or will it be the case of swapping the complete wiper mechanism to resolve ?
One point of note, on both E39's the one of the captive nuts holding the white top cover down where spinning when trying to remove the allen nuts fortunately in the faulty vehicle I was able to rotate the lid enough to replace the relay and on the other I was able to get a set of mole grips to enable it to break free form the lower half.
One thing I did notice on the vehicle with the faulty wipers a lot of water in the scuttle panel and the wiper motor was partially submerged, presume the drain holes are blocked also.
Found that on restarting the ignition, the wipers only worked when the stalk was set to the highest speed, all other positions resulted in no movement, wipers also no longer park when moving the stalk down, washer jets still functioning.
Thinking it was the relay, I replaced this with a known working one, but still the same issue remains, also putting the relay in the known working vehicle the wipers functioned correctly, so I presume the relay is not at fault.
Any ideas, or will it be the case of swapping the complete wiper mechanism to resolve ?
One point of note, on both E39's the one of the captive nuts holding the white top cover down where spinning when trying to remove the allen nuts fortunately in the faulty vehicle I was able to rotate the lid enough to replace the relay and on the other I was able to get a set of mole grips to enable it to break free form the lower half.
One thing I did notice on the vehicle with the faulty wipers a lot of water in the scuttle panel and the wiper motor was partially submerged, presume the drain holes are blocked also.
rfsteel said:
This issue hit my E39 530i on xmas eve, due an MOT on the 29th Dec.
Found that on restarting the ignition, the wipers only worked when the stalk was set to the highest speed, all other positions resulted in no movement, wipers also no longer park when moving the stalk down, washer jets still functioning.
Thinking it was the relay, I replaced this with a known working one, but still the same issue remains, also putting the relay in the known working vehicle the wipers functioned correctly, so I presume the relay is not at fault.
Any ideas, or will it be the case of swapping the complete wiper mechanism to resolve ?
One point of note, on both E39's the one of the captive nuts holding the white top cover down where spinning when trying to remove the allen nuts fortunately in the faulty vehicle I was able to rotate the lid enough to replace the relay and on the other I was able to get a set of mole grips to enable it to break free form the lower half.
One thing I did notice on the vehicle with the faulty wipers a lot of water in the scuttle panel and the wiper motor was partially submerged, presume the drain holes are blocked also.
See my post above, pretty much the same thing happened to me, it was the wiper motor that was the issue.Found that on restarting the ignition, the wipers only worked when the stalk was set to the highest speed, all other positions resulted in no movement, wipers also no longer park when moving the stalk down, washer jets still functioning.
Thinking it was the relay, I replaced this with a known working one, but still the same issue remains, also putting the relay in the known working vehicle the wipers functioned correctly, so I presume the relay is not at fault.
Any ideas, or will it be the case of swapping the complete wiper mechanism to resolve ?
One point of note, on both E39's the one of the captive nuts holding the white top cover down where spinning when trying to remove the allen nuts fortunately in the faulty vehicle I was able to rotate the lid enough to replace the relay and on the other I was able to get a set of mole grips to enable it to break free form the lower half.
One thing I did notice on the vehicle with the faulty wipers a lot of water in the scuttle panel and the wiper motor was partially submerged, presume the drain holes are blocked also.
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