E39 M5 prices on the rise ?
Discussion
M7RT V said:
Looks nice, shame it's not a facelift 
I have to admit that I filtered out pre-facelift cars when I was looking for an M5 last summer. There were several really good pre-facelift ones around as well but......as a buyer the post-2000 cars are just more appealing. Test drove two really well sorted earlier cars which had fabulous performance etc., they just didn't cut it as buying prospects....more oil burning potential, potentially noisier VANOS at start up + the old school headlights - these things do burn into your conciousness when it comes to opening up the cheque book. In reality these issues are minor and on a good car shouldn't impinge much at all on the day-to-day ownership experience...but they're still deal-breakers nonetheless.Silly prejudice, I know, but I think the pre-2000 cars will always tend to go for significantly less money than later cars with similar mileage/condition.
However, for the canny buyer these pre-facelift cars can be a real steal, with all the performance and driving dynamics and at a lower purchase price (and maybe in better overall condition than some of their younger brothers?)
Gad said:
Meaning ?
No meaning, just saying aloud I guess. It does look a nice one, and I'm not silly enough to let the fact its a pre face lift put me off such a car. Have you had many views on the car? Good luck with the sale. It may be worth advertising in other places than phNot all pre facelifts should be discounted. Mine will be fitted with genuine AE's and genuine Celis rears, has the accumulater pump on the vanos and uses very little in the way of oil, but I'm sure because it's a 99 car it will get over looked when I come to sell, despite the fact it will look like a face lift and be in better condition than many out there.
TheAngryDog said:
No meaning, just saying aloud I guess. It does look a nice one, and I'm not silly enough to let the fact its a e face lift put me off such a car. Have you had many views on the car? Good luck with the sale. It may be worth advertising in other places than ph
Not all pre facelifts should be discounted. Mine will be fitted with genuine AE's and genuine Celis rears, has the accumulater pump on the vanos and uses very little in the way of oil, but I'm sure because it's a 99 car it will get over looked when I come to sell, despite the fact it will look like a face lift and be in better condition than many out there.
Had a few viewings vanos Work was carried out by BMW with previous owner and car does not use much oil does use small amount but nowhere near quoted amount like a litre every 1000/1500 miles also in VGC with regards to wheels bodywork interior etc have got in advertised in several places but have had a few people saying about distance to come and view being in south Wales I personally did a 300 mile trip so believe travelling will be needed as good ones are hard to find etc fingers crossed really Not all pre facelifts should be discounted. Mine will be fitted with genuine AE's and genuine Celis rears, has the accumulater pump on the vanos and uses very little in the way of oil, but I'm sure because it's a 99 car it will get over looked when I come to sell, despite the fact it will look like a face lift and be in better condition than many out there.
Gad said:
TheAngryDog said:
No meaning, just saying aloud I guess. It does look a nice one, and I'm not silly enough to let the fact its a e face lift put me off such a car. Have you had many views on the car? Good luck with the sale. It may be worth advertising in other places than ph
Not all pre facelifts should be discounted. Mine will be fitted with genuine AE's and genuine Celis rears, has the accumulater pump on the vanos and uses very little in the way of oil, but I'm sure because it's a 99 car it will get over looked when I come to sell, despite the fact it will look like a face lift and be in better condition than many out there.
Had a few viewings vanos Work was carried out by BMW with previous owner and car does not use much oil does use small amount but nowhere near quoted amount like a litre every 1000/1500 miles also in VGC with regards to wheels bodywork interior etc have got in advertised in several places but have had a few people saying about distance to come and view being in south Wales I personally did a 300 mile trip so believe travelling will be needed as good ones are hard to find etc fingers crossed really Not all pre facelifts should be discounted. Mine will be fitted with genuine AE's and genuine Celis rears, has the accumulater pump on the vanos and uses very little in the way of oil, but I'm sure because it's a 99 car it will get over looked when I come to sell, despite the fact it will look like a face lift and be in better condition than many out there.
andymc said:
Gad said:
TheAngryDog said:
No meaning, just saying aloud I guess. It does look a nice one, and I'm not silly enough to let the fact its a e face lift put me off such a car. Have you had many views on the car? Good luck with the sale. It may be worth advertising in other places than ph
Not all pre facelifts should be discounted. Mine will be fitted with genuine AE's and genuine Celis rears, has the accumulater pump on the vanos and uses very little in the way of oil, but I'm sure because it's a 99 car it will get over looked when I come to sell, despite the fact it will look like a face lift and be in better condition than many out there.
Had a few viewings vanos Work was carried out by BMW with previous owner and car does not use much oil does use small amount but nowhere near quoted amount like a litre every 1000/1500 miles also in VGC with regards to wheels bodywork interior etc have got in advertised in several places but have had a few people saying about distance to come and view being in south Wales I personally did a 300 mile trip so believe travelling will be needed as good ones are hard to find etc fingers crossed really Not all pre facelifts should be discounted. Mine will be fitted with genuine AE's and genuine Celis rears, has the accumulater pump on the vanos and uses very little in the way of oil, but I'm sure because it's a 99 car it will get over looked when I come to sell, despite the fact it will look like a face lift and be in better condition than many out there.
TheAngryDog said:
I hope you sell it soon Gad. I don't know what the issue is with travelling to view a car, I travelled 220 miles to view mine (granted, I was in the area, but then I had to get the train to pick it up and then drive 220 miles back).
Good cars are worth travelling for to view
I guess a lot of potential buyers of these rarer performance vehicles have reasonably well-defined 'car condition/price/distance-to-view' algorithms they use to filter prospective purchases...I know I did and I eventually made a 950 mile round trip to view and buy my M5. Perhaps it goes something a little like this?:Good cars are worth travelling for to view
'If' the car is a good initial prospect
&
'If' the owner 'checks out' on the phone as someone who has looked after the car.
&
'If' the price is realistic (not wildly optimistic...too many are)
....then the enthusiast buyer will probably make the trip to view/buy. (Actually, how the seller 'checks out' ranks very high in my own car buying decision-making process.)
Sellers of good cars away from the main conurbations - if they have ticked all of the above boxes - just need to be a little patient as the target audience for these vehicles is very small indeed compared to mass market, run-of-the-mill econocars.
The right condition car at the right price will sell...eventually! (Moderate M5s with sketchy histories & a big ticket prices just won't sell but many are optimistically pitched on the 'bay/'trader/'tree..and maybe even PH?)
Timing also seems to be important: spring/summer seems best for most cars, including exotica, and prices are higher then too.
Depthhoar said:
I guess a lot of potential buyers of these rarer performance vehicles have reasonably well-defined 'car condition/price/distance-to-view' algorithms they use to filter prospective purchases...I know I did and I eventually made a 950 mile round trip to view and buy my M5. Perhaps it goes something a little like this?:
'If' the car is a good initial prospect
&
'If' the owner 'checks out' on the phone as someone who has looked after the car.
&
'If' the price is realistic (not wildly optimistic...too many are)
....then the enthusiast buyer will probably make the trip to view/buy. (Actually, how the seller 'checks out' ranks very high in my own car buying decision-making process.)
Sellers of good cars away from the main conurbations - if they have ticked all of the above boxes - just need to be a little patient as the target audience for these vehicles is very small indeed compared to mass market, run-of-the-mill econocars.
The right condition car at the right price will sell...eventually! (Moderate M5s with sketchy histories & a big ticket prices just won't sell but many are optimistically pitched on the 'bay/'trader/'tree..and maybe even PH?)
Timing also seems to be important: spring/summer seems best for most cars, including exotica, and prices are higher then too.
Couldn't agree more 'If' the car is a good initial prospect
&
'If' the owner 'checks out' on the phone as someone who has looked after the car.
&
'If' the price is realistic (not wildly optimistic...too many are)
....then the enthusiast buyer will probably make the trip to view/buy. (Actually, how the seller 'checks out' ranks very high in my own car buying decision-making process.)
Sellers of good cars away from the main conurbations - if they have ticked all of the above boxes - just need to be a little patient as the target audience for these vehicles is very small indeed compared to mass market, run-of-the-mill econocars.
The right condition car at the right price will sell...eventually! (Moderate M5s with sketchy histories & a big ticket prices just won't sell but many are optimistically pitched on the 'bay/'trader/'tree..and maybe even PH?)
Timing also seems to be important: spring/summer seems best for most cars, including exotica, and prices are higher then too.
Depthhoar said:
I guess a lot of potential buyers of these rarer performance vehicles have reasonably well-defined 'car condition/price/distance-to-view' algorithms they use to filter prospective purchases...I know I did and I eventually made a 950 mile round trip to view and buy my M5. Perhaps it goes something a little like this?:
'If' the car is a good initial prospect
&
'If' the owner 'checks out' on the phone as someone who has looked after the car.
&
'If' the price is realistic (not wildly optimistic...too many are)
....then the enthusiast buyer will probably make the trip to view/buy. (Actually, how the seller 'checks out' ranks very high in my own car buying decision-making process.)
Sellers of good cars away from the main conurbations - if they have ticked all of the above boxes - just need to be a little patient as the target audience for these vehicles is very small indeed compared to mass market, run-of-the-mill econocars.
The right condition car at the right price will sell...eventually! (Moderate M5s with sketchy histories & a big ticket prices just won't sell but many are optimistically pitched on the 'bay/'trader/'tree..and maybe even PH?)
Timing also seems to be important: spring/summer seems best for most cars, including exotica, and prices are higher then too.
Quite correct as well, but also the fact remains, many people discount pre face lift cars because their mate told them to because they all use 40 litres of oil before you do 30 miles and they rattle like tomorrow etc, while they go look at a snotter of a facelift that actually does use oil and rattles, but its a face lift, right? Gad's own car IMO is actually under priced, but because its not a face lift, many would see it as over priced. Personally, if I was in the market for an M5 and had the cash, I'd be going to see his. 'If' the car is a good initial prospect
&
'If' the owner 'checks out' on the phone as someone who has looked after the car.
&
'If' the price is realistic (not wildly optimistic...too many are)
....then the enthusiast buyer will probably make the trip to view/buy. (Actually, how the seller 'checks out' ranks very high in my own car buying decision-making process.)
Sellers of good cars away from the main conurbations - if they have ticked all of the above boxes - just need to be a little patient as the target audience for these vehicles is very small indeed compared to mass market, run-of-the-mill econocars.
The right condition car at the right price will sell...eventually! (Moderate M5s with sketchy histories & a big ticket prices just won't sell but many are optimistically pitched on the 'bay/'trader/'tree..and maybe even PH?)
Timing also seems to be important: spring/summer seems best for most cars, including exotica, and prices are higher then too.
My own 118k V reg isnt in as good condition and needs some money spending on it, which it will get when I take it off the road (its easier to do all these jobs when the car isnt critical etc). Sure the VANOS is a bit grumbly and it occasionally has a short rattle when it starts (it has the VANOS accumulator, so I'm also going to be replacing the chain tensioner), it'll have new CPS', new O2 sensors and I know the MAF's are in good fettle, it'll have fresh paint and be rust free. It has lots of receipts, will have even more when I have done this round of work, but I know when I come to sell it, all I'll get is "its a preface lift, its almost scrap value" etc*
- slight exaggeration.
TheAngryDog said:
Quite correct as well, but also the fact remains, many people discount pre face lift cars because their mate told them to because they all use 40 litres of oil before you do 30 miles and they rattle like tomorrow etc, while they go look at a snotter of a facelift that actually does use oil and rattles, but its a face lift, right? Gad's own car IMO is actually under priced, but because its not a face lift, many would see it as over priced. Personally, if I was in the market for an M5 and had the cash, I'd be going to see his.
My own 118k V reg isnt in as good condition and needs some money spending on it, which it will get when I take it off the road (its easier to do all these jobs when the car isnt critical etc). Sure the VANOS is a bit grumbly and it occasionally has a short rattle when it starts (it has the VANOS accumulator, so I'm also going to be replacing the chain tensioner), it'll have new CPS', new O2 sensors and I know the MAF's are in good fettle, it'll have fresh paint and be rust free. It has lots of receipts, will have even more when I have done this round of work, but I know when I come to sell it, all I'll get is "its a preface lift, its almost scrap value" etc*
I've a mate who, coincidentally, is looking for a fast, good value V8 week-end plaything. I'm pointing him at pre-2000 M5s just because they're great value, robust and deliver the goods on the road. He's not that interested in the resale issue as he can afford to take a small hit when it comes to selling it on, so it just doesn't worry him. It terms of 'bangs for buck' he won't go far wrong.My own 118k V reg isnt in as good condition and needs some money spending on it, which it will get when I take it off the road (its easier to do all these jobs when the car isnt critical etc). Sure the VANOS is a bit grumbly and it occasionally has a short rattle when it starts (it has the VANOS accumulator, so I'm also going to be replacing the chain tensioner), it'll have new CPS', new O2 sensors and I know the MAF's are in good fettle, it'll have fresh paint and be rust free. It has lots of receipts, will have even more when I have done this round of work, but I know when I come to sell it, all I'll get is "its a preface lift, its almost scrap value" etc*
- slight exaggeration.
Moi? I do worry a bit about resale and that's why I went for the later face-lift model. The 'pub bore' and internet forum 'warriors' can be completely wrong-headed preferring later cars, but in all likelihood they will be potential buyers some time in the future & will be prepared to pay a premium for later models. (I hope so!)
The market decides....'Twas ever thus.
(AngryDog: When all that work is completed yours is exactly the sort of car my mate should be buying!)
Depthhoar said:
I've a mate who, coincidentally, is looking for a fast, good value V8 week-end plaything. I'm pointing him at pre-2000 M5s just because they're great value, robust and deliver the goods on the road. He's not that interested in the resale issue as he can afford to take a small hit when it comes to selling it on, so it just doesn't worry him. It terms of 'bangs for buck' he won't go far wrong.
Moi? I do worry a bit about resale and that's why I went for the later face-lift model. The 'pub bore' and internet forum 'warriors' can be completely wrong-headed preferring later cars, but in all likelihood they will be potential buyers some time in the future & will be prepared to pay a premium for later models. (I hope so!)
The market decides....'Twas ever thus.
(AngryDog: When all that work is completed yours is exactly the sort of car my mate should be buying!)
I do get your point, but I also think well kept good condition pre facelifts will also be worth a few quid.Moi? I do worry a bit about resale and that's why I went for the later face-lift model. The 'pub bore' and internet forum 'warriors' can be completely wrong-headed preferring later cars, but in all likelihood they will be potential buyers some time in the future & will be prepared to pay a premium for later models. (I hope so!)
The market decides....'Twas ever thus.
(AngryDog: When all that work is completed yours is exactly the sort of car my mate should be buying!)
hahaha, cheers, he'll have to wait a while I'm afraid!
TheAngryDog said:
I do get your point, but I also think well kept good condition pre facelifts will also be worth a few quid.
hahaha, cheers, he'll have to wait a while I'm afraid!
I agree biased a bit I know as mine I up for sale but have seen post facelifts not as well cared for TBH especially when better well looked after pre facelifts are not considered I have owned mine for three years without any issues including vanos and oil usage etc hahaha, cheers, he'll have to wait a while I'm afraid!
I do not normally frequent the M-forums...however, pop in just a few times a year.
Interesting to see this thread and the other one from a regretful seller.
I've had my 02 car for over 7 years.
It's been the most reliable and easy motoring car...none of the scare stories about silly running costs etc.
Although recently it only does about 2-3,000 miles a year so fairly light use
Every time I think about selling it, I end up realising it is such a known quantity and well looked after that it makes no sense to sell.
Plus its such a sweet design....the tubi exhaust also helps to change my mind!
I've not really thought of it as an appreciating asset (depreciation certainly feels minimal)...do you guys really see much up side or just a slight strengthening of values given the relatively high production numbers?
Gratuitous pics attached
Interesting to see this thread and the other one from a regretful seller.
I've had my 02 car for over 7 years.
It's been the most reliable and easy motoring car...none of the scare stories about silly running costs etc.
Although recently it only does about 2-3,000 miles a year so fairly light use
Every time I think about selling it, I end up realising it is such a known quantity and well looked after that it makes no sense to sell.
Plus its such a sweet design....the tubi exhaust also helps to change my mind!
I've not really thought of it as an appreciating asset (depreciation certainly feels minimal)...do you guys really see much up side or just a slight strengthening of values given the relatively high production numbers?
Gratuitous pics attached
Depthhoar said:
I guess a lot of potential buyers of these rarer performance vehicles have reasonably well-defined 'car condition/price/distance-to-view' algorithms they use to filter prospective purchases...I know I did and I eventually made a 950 mile round trip to view and buy my M5. Perhaps it goes something a little like this?:
'If' the car is a good initial prospect
&
'If' the owner 'checks out' on the phone as someone who has looked after the car.
&
'If' the price is realistic (not wildly optimistic...too many are)
....then the enthusiast buyer will probably make the trip to view/buy. (Actually, how the seller 'checks out' ranks very high in my own car buying decision-making process.)
Sellers of good cars away from the main conurbations - if they have ticked all of the above boxes - just need to be a little patient as the target audience for these vehicles is very small indeed compared to mass market, run-of-the-mill econocars.
The right condition car at the right price will sell...eventually! (Moderate M5s with sketchy histories & a big ticket prices just won't sell but many are optimistically pitched on the 'bay/'trader/'tree..and maybe even PH?)
Timing also seems to be important: spring/summer seems best for most cars, including exotica, and prices are higher then too.
Definitely agree with this... Ultimately I think I am so fussy about my cars that I would be willing to travel anywhere in the UK to get the right one; and that is relatively easy to tell with decent pictures. A decent discussion with a current owner or indeed a trader who knows the car in question well adds so much for me. 'If' the car is a good initial prospect
&
'If' the owner 'checks out' on the phone as someone who has looked after the car.
&
'If' the price is realistic (not wildly optimistic...too many are)
....then the enthusiast buyer will probably make the trip to view/buy. (Actually, how the seller 'checks out' ranks very high in my own car buying decision-making process.)
Sellers of good cars away from the main conurbations - if they have ticked all of the above boxes - just need to be a little patient as the target audience for these vehicles is very small indeed compared to mass market, run-of-the-mill econocars.
The right condition car at the right price will sell...eventually! (Moderate M5s with sketchy histories & a big ticket prices just won't sell but many are optimistically pitched on the 'bay/'trader/'tree..and maybe even PH?)
Timing also seems to be important: spring/summer seems best for most cars, including exotica, and prices are higher then too.
Although all the talk of values increasing with these cars is a hot topic I still believe these machines were made for using and make the effort to drive mine at every opportunity, increasing the mileage and no doubt slowly eroding it's value... but hey, when I find opportunity to extend that engine I remember why I really bought one of these cars...
Mind you increasing value is always a welcome read when you have just sunk £3.5 into your beast's bodywork...!!
Edited by bobbyjoe77 on Thursday 1st May 22:59
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