E39 M5 prices on the rise ?
Discussion
So, if the consensus seems to be that E39 M5 prices are slowly climbing / holding steady, is this purely on Face Lift cars? As is well known, I have a pre face lift that is going to be going through various work over the next 12 months, including but not limited to;
Genuine Hella AE's
Genuine Hella Celis rear's
Facelift Steering wheels
Facelift rear view mirror
So that will bring it up to face lift spec. Also, being a 99 car, the rear PDC was only an option, so I have all of the PDC kit ready to retro fit which will be getting done.
As part of all this, the suspension bushes are going to get replaced with Poly bush items. All 4 cam shaft sensors will be replaced, as will all of the lambda sensor's. I plan on replacing the fuel pump as I think it may be faulty. I will be replacing the fuel filter.
I believe it actually has the VANOS accumulator pump fitted. I also plan on doing a VANOS Solenoid board refresh and replacing the timing chain tensioner.
Then the biggy. It needs paint and rust removing. The rust is in the usual area's (sills and boot lid). The doors are also full of little dents. I plan on hopefully finding an as rust free bootlid as possible, and doors that are as straight as possible. It also has the start of the fuel filler area corrosion Then I will attend to the rust areas (I am hoping to do this myself) and then sending it off for paint.
I would be looking at having the interior spruced up. There is wear on the drivers side bolster but it just needs re-dying.
An alloy wheel refurb in Shadow Chrome should hopefully complete the work.
So, how would this car stack up with 118k miles? Would it still always be "frowned upon" because its not a face lift?
Or do I just say sod it and let it be someone elses to do up
Genuine Hella AE's
Genuine Hella Celis rear's
Facelift Steering wheels
Facelift rear view mirror
So that will bring it up to face lift spec. Also, being a 99 car, the rear PDC was only an option, so I have all of the PDC kit ready to retro fit which will be getting done.
As part of all this, the suspension bushes are going to get replaced with Poly bush items. All 4 cam shaft sensors will be replaced, as will all of the lambda sensor's. I plan on replacing the fuel pump as I think it may be faulty. I will be replacing the fuel filter.
I believe it actually has the VANOS accumulator pump fitted. I also plan on doing a VANOS Solenoid board refresh and replacing the timing chain tensioner.
Then the biggy. It needs paint and rust removing. The rust is in the usual area's (sills and boot lid). The doors are also full of little dents. I plan on hopefully finding an as rust free bootlid as possible, and doors that are as straight as possible. It also has the start of the fuel filler area corrosion Then I will attend to the rust areas (I am hoping to do this myself) and then sending it off for paint.
I would be looking at having the interior spruced up. There is wear on the drivers side bolster but it just needs re-dying.
An alloy wheel refurb in Shadow Chrome should hopefully complete the work.
So, how would this car stack up with 118k miles? Would it still always be "frowned upon" because its not a face lift?
Or do I just say sod it and let it be someone elses to do up
Edited by TheAngryDog on Tuesday 6th May 12:53
I'm not saying that missing number plate screw caps is an important fault, of course it's trivial, but when selling a car everything gives an impression. To me, and I'm sure everyone is different, small things that are cheap to fix give the impression that the car has not been cared for. This may be wrong and there may be a wad of receipts for the far more important jobs and parts, but it's still one of the first things I notice.
The additional information in the listing is important stuff, knowing that CPC have serviced the car, that the wheels were done by Lepsons and not done by a smart repair outfit indicates more of an enthusiast owner. The boot protector shows that the owner has cared for it. Then engine bay does look rather shabby though and the missing washer fluid cap is another small detail that goes with the number plate screw caps and M wheel badges. The corrosion on the door trim is almost universal, it's pretty much impossible to prevent, and is totally different to rust on the doors.
TheAngryDog - to answer your question, it's likely, depending how much work you can do yourself, parts discounts etc., that you'll be better off leaving the work to whoever buys the car. Spend money on the car for yourself, not for a perspective purchaser. If it were a low mileage car requiring a bit of TLC, that could be different.
The additional information in the listing is important stuff, knowing that CPC have serviced the car, that the wheels were done by Lepsons and not done by a smart repair outfit indicates more of an enthusiast owner. The boot protector shows that the owner has cared for it. Then engine bay does look rather shabby though and the missing washer fluid cap is another small detail that goes with the number plate screw caps and M wheel badges. The corrosion on the door trim is almost universal, it's pretty much impossible to prevent, and is totally different to rust on the doors.
TheAngryDog - to answer your question, it's likely, depending how much work you can do yourself, parts discounts etc., that you'll be better off leaving the work to whoever buys the car. Spend money on the car for yourself, not for a perspective purchaser. If it were a low mileage car requiring a bit of TLC, that could be different.
RichardM5 said:
I'm not saying that missing number plate screw caps is an important fault, of course it's trivial, but when selling a car everything gives an impression. To me, and I'm sure everyone is different, small things that are cheap to fix give the impression that the car has not been cared for. This may be wrong and there may be a wad of receipts for the far more important jobs and parts, but it's still one of the first things I notice.
The additional information in the listing is important stuff, knowing that CPC have serviced the car, that the wheels were done by Lepsons and not done by a smart repair outfit indicates more of an enthusiast owner. The boot protector shows that the owner has cared for it. Then engine bay does look rather shabby though and the missing washer fluid cap is another small detail that goes with the number plate screw caps and M wheel badges. The corrosion on the door trim is almost universal, it's pretty much impossible to prevent, and is totally different to rust on the doors.
TheAngryDog - to answer your question, it's likely, depending how much work you can do yourself, parts discounts etc., that you'll be better off leaving the work to whoever buys the car. Spend money on the car for yourself, not for a perspective purchaser. If it were a low mileage car requiring a bit of TLC, that could be different.
Interesting. Does someone who services their own car then become someone who isnt an enthusiast owner? I have NEVER paid for a car to be serviced, does this make me less of an enthusiast?The additional information in the listing is important stuff, knowing that CPC have serviced the car, that the wheels were done by Lepsons and not done by a smart repair outfit indicates more of an enthusiast owner. The boot protector shows that the owner has cared for it. Then engine bay does look rather shabby though and the missing washer fluid cap is another small detail that goes with the number plate screw caps and M wheel badges. The corrosion on the door trim is almost universal, it's pretty much impossible to prevent, and is totally different to rust on the doors.
TheAngryDog - to answer your question, it's likely, depending how much work you can do yourself, parts discounts etc., that you'll be better off leaving the work to whoever buys the car. Spend money on the car for yourself, not for a perspective purchaser. If it were a low mileage car requiring a bit of TLC, that could be different.
Regarding my own car, the last bit was more tongue in cheek, and a little bit of annoyance at those who think face lift cars are the holy grail, and that pre face lift cars arent fit to scrub their tyres. I was always told to buy on condition first an fore most. Face lift cars were out of my budget at the time, so I bought a pre face lift at what seemed a keen price. I have no qualms putting money into my car, and with the exception of the paint and the wheels, everything else can be done by me, friends and family. I can probably tackle the rust on my own as well.
TheAngryDog said:
Interesting. Does someone who services their own car then become someone who isnt an enthusiast owner? I have NEVER paid for a car to be serviced, does this make me less of an enthusiast?
Absolutely not. I simply said that the fact that the car has been serviced by CPC is an indication that the car was owned by an enthusiast. Concluding that if you service a car yourself means you're not an enthusiast from that is a bit of a stretch. All of these things are just indications of the type of owner, they are things you can see that might give some idea of the things you can't. There may well be cars that have never had a penny spent on them, or have no record of it, that are fantastic and vise-versa.
I know Imola Red is rare..... but £9k for this?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/171309239975?ssPageName=...
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/171309239975?ssPageName=...
bmthnick1981 said:
I know Imola Red is rare..... but £9k for this?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/171309239975?ssPageName=...
That is a very rare combination and with the provenance you can see why it went for £9k. The illuminated door sills are not the only set in the UK though, I know of a couple of others and have some myself!http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/171309239975?ssPageName=...
Rollcage said:
POORCARDEALER said:
Late plate car, its ok for the money....Give it 12 months and there will only be tat available at 9K
It's not a late plate car, it's a 1999 one. The clues are there - it's surprising the beards didn't see them!bmthnick1981 said:
Rollcage said:
POORCARDEALER said:
Late plate car, its ok for the money....Give it 12 months and there will only be tat available at 9K
It's not a late plate car, it's a 1999 one. The clues are there - it's surprising the beards didn't see them!It has the 4:3 Nav and older wheel.
There were only 2 cars with M Texture Alcantara seats in Imola Red imported into the UK, one was a development vehicle made 27 Jan 1999, the other a was made 12 Feb 2002. So either it's the early one or the later one that's had earlier components fitted! Both cars had metal sun roofs, but the earlier car had the rear blind, the later one did not. This car has the rear blind which would also show it is the earlier one.
As final proof, there was an episode of Jeremy Clarkson Head to Head in which Tiff Needell appeared with this car in 1999.
Clarkson 'chased' the M5 in an Alvis Sabre with a Jaguar engine after Tiff said the M5 was better than a Jaguar. Clarkson attached a rope to the M5 and dragged it backwards with Tiff burning rubber.
P.S. I don't have a beard, honest.
There were only 2 cars with M Texture Alcantara seats in Imola Red imported into the UK, one was a development vehicle made 27 Jan 1999, the other a was made 12 Feb 2002. So either it's the early one or the later one that's had earlier components fitted! Both cars had metal sun roofs, but the earlier car had the rear blind, the later one did not. This car has the rear blind which would also show it is the earlier one.
As final proof, there was an episode of Jeremy Clarkson Head to Head in which Tiff Needell appeared with this car in 1999.
Clarkson 'chased' the M5 in an Alvis Sabre with a Jaguar engine after Tiff said the M5 was better than a Jaguar. Clarkson attached a rope to the M5 and dragged it backwards with Tiff burning rubber.
P.S. I don't have a beard, honest.
Edited by RichardM5 on Wednesday 7th May 12:11
RichardM5 said:
It has the 4:3 Nav and older wheel.
There were only 2 cars with M Texture Alcantara seats in Imola Red imported into the UK, one was a development vehicle made 27 Jan 1999, the other a was made 12 Feb 2002. So either it's the early one or the later one that's had earlier components fitted! Both cars had metal sun roofs, but the earlier car had the rear blind, the later one did not. This car has the rear blind which would also show it is the earlier one.
As final proof, there was an episode of Jeremy Clarkson Head to Head in which Tiff Needell appeared with this car in 1999.
Clarkson 'chased' the M5 in an Alvis Sabre with a Jaguar engine after Tiff said the M5 was better than a Jaguar. Clarkson attached a rope to the M5 and dragged it backwards with Tiff burning rubber.
P.S. I don't have a beard, honest.
No you don't have a beard. The car in the ad is not the car in the video. The car in the video has the same interior as mine, the red and black leather, with the red and black contrasting door cards.There were only 2 cars with M Texture Alcantara seats in Imola Red imported into the UK, one was a development vehicle made 27 Jan 1999, the other a was made 12 Feb 2002. So either it's the early one or the later one that's had earlier components fitted! Both cars had metal sun roofs, but the earlier car had the rear blind, the later one did not. This car has the rear blind which would also show it is the earlier one.
As final proof, there was an episode of Jeremy Clarkson Head to Head in which Tiff Needell appeared with this car in 1999.
Clarkson 'chased' the M5 in an Alvis Sabre with a Jaguar engine after Tiff said the M5 was better than a Jaguar. Clarkson attached a rope to the M5 and dragged it backwards with Tiff burning rubber.
P.S. I don't have a beard, honest.
Edited by RichardM5 on Wednesday 7th May 12:11
Can I claim my honorary beard?
Depthhoar said:
LaSource said: "do you guys really see much up side or just a slight strengthening of values given the relatively high production numbers?"
Around 2500 RHD models manufactured?
My feeling is that values will only slowly strengthen or, more likely, stabilise in the short to medium term. In the longer term, I think prices will rise in response to a diminishing supply - older/heavily-used/written-off cars disappearing from circulation etc.. The owner profile will also probably change as the pool of vehicles diminishes to a limited number of cherished/restored vehicles. These owners may well keep their vehicles for investment but also for a limited (very low annual mileage) amount of driving fun. At that time I've got a feeling prices will become significantly more buoyant.
In some ways the E39 M5 may become a bit like - or at least viewed like - the Porsche (993) 911: the last air-cooled 911, the last 'proper' Porsche in some people's estimation. The Beast will probably be the last manual M5, the last one not totally emasculated by electronic wizardry interfering with the driver experience. Perhaps this will add to its desirability and residuals, much like the 993 right now. (Some might say that the E34 M5 already has the bragging rights as the last true M5..and maybe they're right?)
Just my two cents worth....
Just worked my way through this thread, can't believe a year has passed since I remember reading the first half :| While I agree entirely with the second half of what you say about it being one of the last old school cars akin to the 993, it is interesting that you mention the long term prospects and owner profile of the car. While I am a big fan of the E39 and moreover this iteration of the M5, IF the owner profile down the line becomes the kind of person who will do limited mileage at weekends/high days and holidays I don't think their choice of car would be an E39 M5 and as such it may not appreciate for those reasons. I've only ever been in an E39 M5 nearly 10 years ago when they were still around aplenty on AUC forecourts but if I had one I would use it everyday as it was intended to be - perhaps the car has shot itself in the foot by being such a competent all rounder that it becomes too difficult to use in limited doses due to a lack of inherent compromises in the 'lairiness' of the car or practicality as other 'future classics' like a CSL or even a 1M Around 2500 RHD models manufactured?
My feeling is that values will only slowly strengthen or, more likely, stabilise in the short to medium term. In the longer term, I think prices will rise in response to a diminishing supply - older/heavily-used/written-off cars disappearing from circulation etc.. The owner profile will also probably change as the pool of vehicles diminishes to a limited number of cherished/restored vehicles. These owners may well keep their vehicles for investment but also for a limited (very low annual mileage) amount of driving fun. At that time I've got a feeling prices will become significantly more buoyant.
In some ways the E39 M5 may become a bit like - or at least viewed like - the Porsche (993) 911: the last air-cooled 911, the last 'proper' Porsche in some people's estimation. The Beast will probably be the last manual M5, the last one not totally emasculated by electronic wizardry interfering with the driver experience. Perhaps this will add to its desirability and residuals, much like the 993 right now. (Some might say that the E34 M5 already has the bragging rights as the last true M5..and maybe they're right?)
Just my two cents worth....
Edited by Depthhoar on Thursday 1st May 23:57
I guess what I'm saying is in the hypothetical dream garage many would definitely have an E39 M5 but it wouldn't be in the weekend car category, it would be the chariot of choice for everyday duties with a seriously healthy dose of M. If BMW made a brand new one today I bet plenty of people would queue up for one knowing that it's fresh from the factory with a lovely blend of character, power, usability, practicality, build quality and ready for thousands, perhaps hundreds of thousands of miles of pretty much any kind of road and possibly track use. I pity those that have done very low mileage in these as obviously the cars will still age from lack of use especially stored outside and won't preserve that factory freshness as a well used one that's been fully restored down the line.
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