F10 M5 issues since 5/2012 no one can fix
Discussion
I have had an F10 M5 since May 2012 and shortly after delivery I have had constant issues with the car suffering drive train issues. The car will appear to switch off half the engine at random intervals. The worst being approximately 30 times on a trip back from Lincoln to Essex. It has been to the dealers many times with different fixes tried on instruction from BMW but nothing has fixed the issue.
How many chances do I give them fix the issue?
How many chances do I give them fix the issue?
1 year is far too long to have to wait for a fix, especially on such a major issue. I'd write to BMW GB (cc dealership) demanding to know the precise cause and the (final) intended fix, giving them one last chance to fix the car (if they are able to guarantee a fix) and asking what they propose to do if they are unable to fix it. Is the car on finance?
I don't want to give much away but earlier in the history of the issue I was told that BMW were considering replacing the car. Yesterday I called BMW customer service (following the dealer specifically asking me to). BMW returned the call this morning and refused to discuss the issue with me. The car is leased via a business.
Your problem is that things have now dragged on too long, so replacing the car would be unusual.
The other way of looking at it of course is that you have been more than patient and have given them ample opportunity to rectify matters, without success.
The reason they're taking the fifth with you is that they know you have a great case and for them to try to argue against it would make them look small and frankly silly.
BMW are better than that and in fact intervened to help me in previous matters. For that reason, I remained loyal to the marque and bought a new F10. That's what they need to remember.
Make them aware of this thread, asking to speak with the top person.
You have a strong case and must not forget that.
The other way of looking at it of course is that you have been more than patient and have given them ample opportunity to rectify matters, without success.
The reason they're taking the fifth with you is that they know you have a great case and for them to try to argue against it would make them look small and frankly silly.
BMW are better than that and in fact intervened to help me in previous matters. For that reason, I remained loyal to the marque and bought a new F10. That's what they need to remember.
Make them aware of this thread, asking to speak with the top person.
You have a strong case and must not forget that.
BMW will try to fix it but they won't replace it directly with you if its leased. I would guess you will have to get the leasing company to agree to take it back and then slug it out with BMW. As the leasing company's customer, you could reasonably expect some support from them in getting this resolved. They are charging you for a fully working car and not delivering..... I would be refusing to make the lease payments in your shoes. If you have a trail of all the issues, why not just give it back to them and stop paying. That might help motivate them to sort it out.
What have they said about it?
What have they said about it?
Edited by DT398 on Thursday 6th June 21:27
Stopping paying is not a smart move and could cause serious problems with OP's credit rating.
Two wrongs don't make a right!
The finance company own the car and of course have a major role to play, but the OP is the one being let down and deserves better.
Why should the BMW response be different if it's a leased car?
The whole situation does seem strange, as suggested earlier.
Is there more to this than we know?
Keep going, don't give in.
BMW are big enough to do the right thing.
Two wrongs don't make a right!
The finance company own the car and of course have a major role to play, but the OP is the one being let down and deserves better.
Why should the BMW response be different if it's a leased car?
The whole situation does seem strange, as suggested earlier.
Is there more to this than we know?
Keep going, don't give in.
BMW are big enough to do the right thing.
OK, well maybe indicate that you will stop paying if things aren't right. Look at where the "contracts" are here. There's one between BMW and the leasing company who bought the car from BMW and one between the leasing company and the company that has leased the car from them (who the OP presumably works for). There is no direct relationship between BMW and the OP if I am reading it right.
I agree that BMW should do the right thing but that would be to take the car back from the leasing company and supply them a new one for the company that leases it from them for the OP.
I was in exactly this position 15 years ago with an Alfa 156 (I know, I know). It was leased by my company from a leasing co and provided to me. It was a nightmare and in the garage for 75% of the first 6 months I had it. I had to put pressure on the leasing company to agree to take it back, which they eventually did having got a "credit" of some sort from Alfa Romeo. If this is the same situation, it could be that this is the only way this will work but I can't see BMW dealing directly with the OP if there is a leasing company in between.
If there really is a leasing company involved, then that's where the OP has the leverage, not with BMW.
This could of course all be irrelevant if there is no leasing company involved. Just my opinion.
I agree that BMW should do the right thing but that would be to take the car back from the leasing company and supply them a new one for the company that leases it from them for the OP.
I was in exactly this position 15 years ago with an Alfa 156 (I know, I know). It was leased by my company from a leasing co and provided to me. It was a nightmare and in the garage for 75% of the first 6 months I had it. I had to put pressure on the leasing company to agree to take it back, which they eventually did having got a "credit" of some sort from Alfa Romeo. If this is the same situation, it could be that this is the only way this will work but I can't see BMW dealing directly with the OP if there is a leasing company in between.
If there really is a leasing company involved, then that's where the OP has the leverage, not with BMW.
This could of course all be irrelevant if there is no leasing company involved. Just my opinion.
Jazzer said:
Stopping paying is not a smart move and could cause serious problems with OP's credit rating.
Two wrongs don't make a right!
The finance company own the car and of course have a major role to play, but the OP is the one being let down and deserves better.
Why should the BMW response be different if it's a leased car?
The whole situation does seem strange, as suggested earlier.
Is there more to this than we know?
Keep going, don't give in.
BMW are big enough to do the right thing.
+ 1. But, regarding credit rating, the OP himself is not leasing the car, so not sure how it would affect his credit rating. Maybe a threat to stop payments if the situation is not rectified pronto might be the better route than simply stopping payments.Two wrongs don't make a right!
The finance company own the car and of course have a major role to play, but the OP is the one being let down and deserves better.
Why should the BMW response be different if it's a leased car?
The whole situation does seem strange, as suggested earlier.
Is there more to this than we know?
Keep going, don't give in.
BMW are big enough to do the right thing.
No matter what happens I am not going to break the contract to prove a point. Thanks for the input guys.
I sent a sternly worded email last night and have yet to have a response from any party. But a call from the lead tech at dealer to arrange a test drive with me, I booked it but stated it wasn't going ahead unless I have a clear plan in writing should the fault not be rectified by the latest of many different fixes proposed. (for which I have no eta as a factory in Germany is having a computer system changed).
I have asked the following question to all parties multiple times in person and in writing and no one has answered in fact they ignore it or refuse to answer.
"Can you please specifically explain to me how many times I should accept the fault occurring and how many times I should accept the car being returned to the dealer with no resolution before taking it further?"
I sent a sternly worded email last night and have yet to have a response from any party. But a call from the lead tech at dealer to arrange a test drive with me, I booked it but stated it wasn't going ahead unless I have a clear plan in writing should the fault not be rectified by the latest of many different fixes proposed. (for which I have no eta as a factory in Germany is having a computer system changed).
I have asked the following question to all parties multiple times in person and in writing and no one has answered in fact they ignore it or refuse to answer.
"Can you please specifically explain to me how many times I should accept the fault occurring and how many times I should accept the car being returned to the dealer with no resolution before taking it further?"
rich1231 said:
No matter what happens I am not going to break the contract to prove a point. Thanks for the input guys.
I sent a sternly worded email last night and have yet to have a response from any party. But a call from the lead tech at dealer to arrange a test drive with me, I booked it but stated it wasn't going ahead unless I have a clear plan in writing should the fault not be rectified by the latest of many different fixes proposed. (for which I have no eta as a factory in Germany is having a computer system changed).
I have asked the following question to all parties multiple times in person and in writing and no one has answered in fact they ignore it or refuse to answer.
"Can you please specifically explain to me how many times I should accept the fault occurring and how many times I should accept the car being returned to the dealer with no resolution before taking it further?"
I may be stating the obvious but have you taken any legal advise? 1 letter from them may get you the answer \ resolution. Cause personally I wouldn't accept it. I sent a sternly worded email last night and have yet to have a response from any party. But a call from the lead tech at dealer to arrange a test drive with me, I booked it but stated it wasn't going ahead unless I have a clear plan in writing should the fault not be rectified by the latest of many different fixes proposed. (for which I have no eta as a factory in Germany is having a computer system changed).
I have asked the following question to all parties multiple times in person and in writing and no one has answered in fact they ignore it or refuse to answer.
"Can you please specifically explain to me how many times I should accept the fault occurring and how many times I should accept the car being returned to the dealer with no resolution before taking it further?"
If you want to keep the car and get it fixed, you need BMW to do that. If you want it returned or replaced, you need the leasing company to do that. No point asking them all the same question.
Presumably you are not paying half the leasing monthly for half an engine? It's not about keeping it or not to prove a point. It's not fit for purpose and in your shoes, I would be telling the leasing company in writing not to expect another payment until the car is fixed. That puts the ball in their court. Right now there's no pressure on them to fix it (they are getting paid) and as for BMW, they have been paid too. If the leasing company has any clout at all, they should sort this out for you. Does your company lease enough cars from them to have any influence? Do you have a fleet manager that has a relationship with someone at the leasing company?
Like someone said above, get some professional advice and send a letter to the leasing company. They should be going into bat for you with BMW, since you are their customer.
Presumably you are not paying half the leasing monthly for half an engine? It's not about keeping it or not to prove a point. It's not fit for purpose and in your shoes, I would be telling the leasing company in writing not to expect another payment until the car is fixed. That puts the ball in their court. Right now there's no pressure on them to fix it (they are getting paid) and as for BMW, they have been paid too. If the leasing company has any clout at all, they should sort this out for you. Does your company lease enough cars from them to have any influence? Do you have a fleet manager that has a relationship with someone at the leasing company?
Like someone said above, get some professional advice and send a letter to the leasing company. They should be going into bat for you with BMW, since you are their customer.
Can you get the dealer to give you a print out of the current integration version of the car please and post it here.
I am assuming they have upgraded the software? There was a known issue with a drivetrain error, I had it but software upgrade fixed it.
i think you should write, not email, a sterm letter to BMW GB CS (who I assume you have a case open on?) BMW Dealership (And their HQ if they have one such as synter and your finance company.
Neil.
I am assuming they have upgraded the software? There was a known issue with a drivetrain error, I had it but software upgrade fixed it.
i think you should write, not email, a sterm letter to BMW GB CS (who I assume you have a case open on?) BMW Dealership (And their HQ if they have one such as synter and your finance company.
Neil.
As an update.
BMW have still not responded to me directly in anyway, that is following both the leasing company and dealer specifically asking me to contact BMW, and despite my emails being cc'd in to multiple senior BMW persons.
All parties still refuse to answer the question regarding what steps will be taken should the latest attempt to fix fail.
The parts will not be available until at least June 26th.
I have asked my solicitors to take over.
I will never purchase a BMW again after this.
BMW have still not responded to me directly in anyway, that is following both the leasing company and dealer specifically asking me to contact BMW, and despite my emails being cc'd in to multiple senior BMW persons.
All parties still refuse to answer the question regarding what steps will be taken should the latest attempt to fix fail.
The parts will not be available until at least June 26th.
I have asked my solicitors to take over.
I will never purchase a BMW again after this.
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