Rod Bearings at 50K miles
Discussion
Greetings just wanted to pass a long a few pictures of my S85 rod bearings. I'm the second owner of a 2008 M5 and the car is totally stock. We have had a few here in the states lose their motors for spun rod bearings, so at 50k miles I decided to take a look. I changed them out myself. Not good. The scared shells are the upper. ![](http://thumbsnap.com/sc/cnY849cm.jpg[/img]</a> <a href="http://thumbsnap.com/R6WaiHi5" Target="_blank">[img]http://thumbsnap.com/sc/R6WaiHi5.jpg)
Edited by B737Capt on Friday 26th July 17:45
SMG, I'm the second owner, no track time and yes 10w60. Big discussion going on now is that the oil is too heavy for cold start ups and if used as a daily driver, go to thinner oil. I bought from the dealer that sold the car new and have all records. It is stock, original rotors, more than 50% of original brake pads left, has original clutch still in it with no slip. IOW this car has not been beat on. Many with the M3 S65 motor with same exact connecting rod and rod bearings have switched to M1 0w40 oil and change at 5k. As these motors are getting a few miles on them now, spun bearings are starting to show up.
I used to build engines for a living. I've just done my E39 M5 bearings at 100k. They looked similar to yours. FWIW I would advise sticking to 10w60 unless your going to change your oil for winter time each year, then maybe a 5w40. But tbh I think the main killer of these engines is the fact they rev highly (for v8/10s) and have relatively long oil change intervals. Also the car (certainly E39) lets you rev the car highly when the oil is not up to temp. If you heed my advice below I would think they will last for a long time:
1) Do NOT rev your car high rpm until the OIL temp/pressure is up to working values. This will depend on the car, but in winter time especially your water will heat much quicker than your oil. Essentially I don't go over 3k really until I've driven the car for 10mins at least in winter.
2) GOOD fully synth (castrol, millers or silkolene my fav) 10w60 oil changed every 5-7k.
1) Do NOT rev your car high rpm until the OIL temp/pressure is up to working values. This will depend on the car, but in winter time especially your water will heat much quicker than your oil. Essentially I don't go over 3k really until I've driven the car for 10mins at least in winter.
2) GOOD fully synth (castrol, millers or silkolene my fav) 10w60 oil changed every 5-7k.
That is the exact advice being given over here now that this is popping it's ugly head up. Most of us don't track the car and or keep it in the upper rpm band where the TWS really shines. I think for normal around town driving the M1 0W40 is being floated around over here and many M3 guys have been using it with the S65. These motors were designed a while back and oil technology has come a long ways. Many think this is cold engine start up damage without letting the oil warm up.
Great points, thanks.
Great points, thanks.
was the engine noisy or any signs that something was wrong?
my car has done 110k now (30k in my hands) and wondering what condition mine are in lol... btw the V10 has a rev limiter dependant on temp, but it only restricts the highest revs and you can still go to 6k when cold... not that i ever do.
my car has done 110k now (30k in my hands) and wondering what condition mine are in lol... btw the V10 has a rev limiter dependant on temp, but it only restricts the highest revs and you can still go to 6k when cold... not that i ever do.
No I just did it early because some are spinning bearings north of 80K. That's miles. I had UOA done twice over the last 10K and the lead was very low at 8 parts and the averages are 13. No sign what so ever. I think if you hear the knock, it's too late. What we try to prevent is the crank getting damaged. That's why I'm posting this as it sneaks up on you if you're not careful.
There was an article somewhere on the net explaining the flow properties of Castrol 10/60.
According to said article this oil only flows properly at 100 degrees C, ie how much can be flowed through a hole of a certain size ensuring proper lubrication under load.
You often hear of statements like "It pulls great from 30 mph in 6th it's just had new bearings",which is a bit worrying if the above is taken into account.
Good clean oil and a good warm up should see benefits,and any sort of labouring is off the cards.
According to said article this oil only flows properly at 100 degrees C, ie how much can be flowed through a hole of a certain size ensuring proper lubrication under load.
You often hear of statements like "It pulls great from 30 mph in 6th it's just had new bearings",which is a bit worrying if the above is taken into account.
Good clean oil and a good warm up should see benefits,and any sort of labouring is off the cards.
http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8564...
Here is a great thread going on right now on another forum. Some very knowledgeable engine people there. Takes a while to read but great info. My bearings are in the discussion too. S85 and S65 have same rods and rod bearings.
Here is a great thread going on right now on another forum. Some very knowledgeable engine people there. Takes a while to read but great info. My bearings are in the discussion too. S85 and S65 have same rods and rod bearings.
Yes I did them myself. I researched a while before I got enough nerve. You need a lift that allows the front suspension to hang free. You need to support the motor from the top by the 2 hooks. I bought 2 engine support bars that go across the motor and the inner fender supports the bars. The front suspension has to be lowered to get the pan out. Finally after you get the pan off, the bearing change is easy. You do have to remove the vanos pump and engine oil pump. Very easy. I went a head and replaced that high pressure vanos hose inside the block while I was there as they have been known to leak. Didn't want to go through all that again later so I refreshed it with a new one while I was looking at it.
Edited by B737Capt on Friday 26th July 17:49
B737Capt said:
Yes I did them myself. I researched a while before I got enough nerve. You need a lift that allows the front suspension to hang free. You need to support the motor from the top by the 2 hooks. I bought 2 engine support bars that go across the motor and the inner fender supports the bars. The front suspension has to be lowered to get the pan out. Finally after you get the pan off, the bearing change is easy. You doo have to remove the vanos pump and engine oil pump. Very easy. I went a head and replaced that high pressure vanos hose inside the block while I was there as they have been known to leak. Didn't want to go through all that again later so I refreshed it with a new one while I was looking at it.
Ok sounds like a days work?We're all the parts easy to find / buy? I'm guessing its woth comsidering replacing the vanos pump while there?
I would hope the above is covered by the BMW Extended Warranty. If it is, I will keep driving the f
ker into the ground, making sure I am always current on the Warranty and the Service. If it goes pop and Mondial picks up the tab - so what! That's why I suffer scary depreciation and warranty costs - I want to be able to drive it without spending time underneath it. It is a utility car after all...
ker into the ground, making sure I am always current on the Warranty and the Service. If it goes pop and Mondial picks up the tab - so what! That's why I suffer scary depreciation and warranty costs - I want to be able to drive it without spending time underneath it. It is a utility car after all...Cheburator mk2 said:
I would hope the above is covered by the BMW Extended Warranty. If it is, I will keep driving the fker into the ground, making sure I am always current on the Warranty and the Service. If it goes pop and Mondial picks up the tab - so what! That's why I suffer scary depreciation and warranty costs - I want to be able to drive it without spending time underneath it. It is a utility car after all...
Depends on BMW's definition of "wear & tear" - at 50K that kind of scoring is way too early, but on the other hand if a number of M3/M5/M6 with elevated mileage start suffering these problems, I can see Mondial starting to squirm...ker into the ground, making sure I am always current on the Warranty and the Service. If it goes pop and Mondial picks up the tab - so what! That's why I suffer scary depreciation and warranty costs - I want to be able to drive it without spending time underneath it. It is a utility car after all...rassi said:
Depends on BMW's definition of "wear & tear" - at 50K that kind of scoring is way too early, but on the other hand if a number of M3/M5/M6 with elevated mileage start suffering these problems, I can see Mondial starting to squirm...
Agree. The condition of these bearings is shocking. Having opened several V8s with more than 150k miles on them, some of which were super hard, the wear on the V10s is real bad. My line of thinking is that my car has FBMWSH, it has always been maintained on schedule and that the bearings are not really part of the wear and tear items, in the same way as a clutch is... Won't dwell on this too much thus... If it goes, it goes...Have to say, this makes me a little nervous about my E92, as although an S65, it's essentially just two cylinders less than the V10 lump with a simpler lubrication system. I know a guy in Japan who has had a 2007 M6 since new, and a couple of years ago, it threw a rod. He always pampered the car, as it was one of a number of cars he had. It let go when he was driving through a tunnel on the expressway (not thrashing it), and could have been very dangerous. After a long battle with his supplying dealer, and the manufacturer, he had a complete new engine fitted for free.
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