M6 gearbox fault

[r spec]

Also. I have found a download of INPA from a bmwcoders website. Is there a recommended source? I'm capable with a laptop and such software (once I pick it up and get used to it) but just want to make sure I don't trip over with the first principles - which download and which hardware cable.
edit: maybe INPA isn't the best from your list of 3 too...
Thanks!

Edited by r spec on Monday 16th February 17:21 to ensure I don't come across as an idiot who obviously would need advice/practice to pick up INPA etc but I have cal'd ECUs before

Edited by r spec on Wednesday 18th February 16:09

[jcolley]

I used to be adamant not to perform SMG adaptation with INPA based on reports from others of it not working. Now however, I've gotten deep enough into the DME and SMG programming that I understand that actual adaptation program is in the SMG computer's code, not in the diagnostic software. The diag software only provides the activation command to the SMG to execute the routine, so in the end, it doesn't really matter.

I used ISTA/D for the longest time, but now primarily fire up INPA for problems as it is smaller and faster.

The 4FA0 has many possible causes. In your case, I suspect the PLCD failures were "glitchy" and random at first and caused the 4FA0. Now that the PLCD failure has progressed, the 510D and 510E codes mean that the signal for the PLCD primary and secondary sensors (respectively) have ceased entirely. Again, this is intermittent though and although we've never nailed down the mode of failure (yet I have 4 "bad ones" to play with), I'm leaning towards an electrical connection internal to the PLCD shorting from wire to wire.

I'll poke the Admins on your account over there.

[r spec]

Thanks very much, appreciate the quality advice! Is there a recommended source of HW cable? (assuming BMW coders is a good place to get the link for SW download)

[longintheleg]

My PLCD will be replaced over the next couple of weeks.

I've been quoted £450 by a recommended BMW specialist who've worked on SMG's in the past.

[Schermerhorn]

longintheleg said:

My PLCD will be replaced over the next couple of weeks.

I've been quoted £450 by a recommended BMW specialist who've worked on SMG's in the past.

£450 for the part or labour?

Labour is reasonable but part should be around £320

Are you going to get clutch changed also? Might as well if its up in the air.

[longintheleg]

Schermerhorn said:

longintheleg said:

My PLCD will be replaced over the next couple of weeks.

I've been quoted £450 by a recommended BMW specialist who've worked on SMG's in the past.

£450 for the part or labour?

Labour is reasonable but part should be around £320

Are you going to get clutch changed also? Might as well if its up in the air.

£449 all in.

The clutch and fly are fine at the moment so I'm going to leave them.
The sensor isn't in the gearbox so they just have to drop the rear of it and I think the sensor sits on top.

[Schermerhorn]

longintheleg said:

Schermerhorn said:

longintheleg said:

My PLCD will be replaced over the next couple of weeks.

I've been quoted £450 by a recommended BMW specialist who've worked on SMG's in the past.

£450 for the part or labour?

Labour is reasonable but part should be around £320

Are you going to get clutch changed also? Might as well if its up in the air.

£449 all in.

The clutch and fly are fine at the moment so I'm going to leave them.
The sensor isn't in the gearbox so they just have to drop the rear of it and I think the sensor sits on top.

Good price.

I got clutch, flywheel and sensor for £964 but I need flywheel bolts, fork, clip and brass ball pin

Labour quoted £350 for that

I might do the transmission fluid too for £200 for parts and labour.



Clutch is slightly slipping

[longintheleg]

Schermerhorn said:

Good price.

I got clutch, flywheel and sensor for £964 but I need flywheel bolts, fork, clip and brass ball pin

Labour quoted £350 for that

I might do the transmission fluid too for £200 for parts and labour.



Clutch is slightly slipping

Blimey, I thought your M6 would have been long gone. Are you keeping her for a while now?

As for clutch parts etc, did you buy them from CP4L?
Who will fit them for you?

CPC are doing my CPS while I type this and I can't wait to have the car back to normal. This sensor is a nightmare and comes and goes once you've stopped after a longish drive. You then can't pull away in first and have to use 2nd.
I had to pop the hazards on last week just after the M6 toll which really wasn't cool.

Hope the car's sorted now mate.

[Schermerhorn]

longintheleg said:

Schermerhorn said:

Good price.

I got clutch, flywheel and sensor for £964 but I need flywheel bolts, fork, clip and brass ball pin

Labour quoted £350 for that

I might do the transmission fluid too for £200 for parts and labour.



Clutch is slightly slipping

Blimey, I thought your M6 would have been long gone. Are you keeping her for a while now?

As for clutch parts etc, did you buy them from CP4L?
Who will fit them for you?

CPC are doing my CPS while I type this and I can't wait to have the car back to normal. This sensor is a nightmare and comes and goes once you've stopped after a longish drive. You then can't pull away in first and have to use 2nd.
I had to pop the hazards on last week just after the M6 toll which really wasn't cool.

Hope the car's sorted now mate.

I got a good settlement out of supplying dealer but for legal reasons I'm afraid I can't go into too much.

Car still has the warranty and is just a weekend car now so if/when it breaks it is fully covered.

The parts were bought ages ago by myself but because I'm so busy these days I rarely drive it. It seems to run, start, stop and steering perfectly fine though

How many miles has your car covered?

[longintheleg]

Schermerhorn said:

longintheleg said:

Schermerhorn said:

Good price.

I got clutch, flywheel and sensor for £964 but I need flywheel bolts, fork, clip and brass ball pin

Labour quoted £350 for that

I might do the transmission fluid too for £200 for parts and labour.



Clutch is slightly slipping

Blimey, I thought your M6 would have been long gone. Are you keeping her for a while now?

As for clutch parts etc, did you buy them from CP4L?
Who will fit them for you?

CPC are doing my CPS while I type this and I can't wait to have the car back to normal. This sensor is a nightmare and comes and goes once you've stopped after a longish drive. You then can't pull away in first and have to use 2nd.
I had to pop the hazards on last week just after the M6 toll which really wasn't cool.

Hope the car's sorted now mate.

I got a good settlement out of supplying dealer but for legal reasons I'm afraid I can't go into too much.

Car still has the warranty and is just a weekend car now so if/when it breaks it is fully covered.

The parts were bought ages ago by myself but because I'm so busy these days I rarely drive it. It seems to run, start, stop and steering perfectly fine though

How many miles has your car covered?

Fair enough and good to know it hasn't tried killing you again.

Mine's just passed the 68k mark and everything seems to be going well other than this little niggle.

I use mine as my DD and I really do love it.
Like any other petrolhead, I'm always looking for my next car and the only barges that take my fancy are the RS6 (C7) and E63 (W212??) but then I look at the interior and neither, in my eyes are on par with the M5. They look very 'plasticy' whereas the E61's is very luxurious especially when combined with the full leather option.

[Schermerhorn]

longintheleg said:

Schermerhorn said:

longintheleg said:

Schermerhorn said:

Good price.

I got clutch, flywheel and sensor for £964 but I need flywheel bolts, fork, clip and brass ball pin

Labour quoted £350 for that

I might do the transmission fluid too for £200 for parts and labour.



Clutch is slightly slipping

Blimey, I thought your M6 would have been long gone. Are you keeping her for a while now?

As for clutch parts etc, did you buy them from CP4L?
Who will fit them for you?

CPC are doing my CPS while I type this and I can't wait to have the car back to normal. This sensor is a nightmare and comes and goes once you've stopped after a longish drive. You then can't pull away in first and have to use 2nd.
I had to pop the hazards on last week just after the M6 toll which really wasn't cool.

Hope the car's sorted now mate.

I got a good settlement out of supplying dealer but for legal reasons I'm afraid I can't go into too much.

Car still has the warranty and is just a weekend car now so if/when it breaks it is fully covered.

The parts were bought ages ago by myself but because I'm so busy these days I rarely drive it. It seems to run, start, stop and steering perfectly fine though

How many miles has your car covered?

Fair enough and good to know it hasn't tried killing you again.

Mine's just passed the 68k mark and everything seems to be going well other than this little niggle.

I use mine as my DD and I really do love it.
Like any other petrolhead, I'm always looking for my next car and the only barges that take my fancy are the RS6 (C7) and E63 (W212??) but then I look at the interior and neither, in my eyes are on par with the M5. They look very 'plasticy' whereas the E61's is very luxurious especially when combined with the full leather option.

I've always thought that the C7 RS6's interior was pretty spot on in terms of ergonomics etc. I have to say though the E60 and E63's interiors have aged VERY well indeed.

My next car is going to be an F10 M5. Just need to find one in Sakhir Orange

I still love the M6 and love what it can do when it is running right - which it seems to be doing at the moment ha ha ha - but my love affair with it is over. I remember the days when I used to run out immediately to clean any bird poo off it.

My wife thought I needed sectioning

Edited by Schermerhorn on Monday 2nd March 17:45

[AW10]

Schermerhorn said:

I got a good settlement out of supplying dealer but for legal reasons I'm afraid I can't go into too much.

That is good to hear - your early ownership experience sounded far more painful than average/necessary.

[r spec]

Just to confirm sensor sorted the main issue (around £650 all in from local indy). Drove very nicely but now needs another re-cal as can get a 'clunk' engage time to time. So I want to get INPA asap.


On another note; I still have the issue with the M6 not willing to pull away in 2nd gear and refuse to change gear below 2.3k-3k rpm. I believe I've traced it to the longitudinal accelerometer but that is just a theory until I can 'zero' it - assume I can do that in INPA too.


Where is the recommended source or does it not matter? Any advice on suitable USB hardware to go with it?

Thanks!

[mycool]

I got the reg cog of death in my e60 M5 last week and the car is currently in disgrace outside my house after requiring recovery to get me and it home!

After a bit of advice as to what could have happened?
Its booked into my local Indy for Monday as the Stealer will no doubt try to fit a new gearbox!

Issue occurred as follows:

Car was warm after some spirited but certainly not flat out driving. Pulling out of a roundabout in 2nd gear (in P500s, medium revs), pulled for 3rd gear and got a flashing gear indicator some light clunking and then rough shift, accompanied by red cog.

Had to then stop in traffic before the next roundabout (I was in Milton Keynes!) and when I went to pull away it wouldn't shift into 1st.

Tried again with both paddles and shifter, got clunking again and flashing indicator but no shift or forward motion.

Turned car off and on again and selected drive and got yellow cog but no shift. Tried N then D again and got clunking and an attempted shift and then some grinding like when you half-shift but miss in a manual box. Red Cog again.

All this whilst sat stationary in the outside lane of a dual carriageway with traffic trying to negotiate around me.

Tried reverse and again a clunk but no shift. Thankfully(!) the car was stuck in Neutral so managed to push it into a side road and called recovery.

Car has done 49k miles and to my knowledge hasn't had a clutch replaced.


So having read various forums, I'm now fearing the worst but need some advice on where to start the Indy looking - cheapest fix first, etc.
They think possible a clutch failure but did say they would start with the solenoids valves and sensors in case they have failed.

Help much appreciated but am prepared for a 4 figure bill

[Schermerhorn]

Red Cog usually means new clutch and flywheel.

I never got the red cog on mine but the yellow transmission error.

Get it read on the machine.

If any 510B, 510C or 510D errors come up its a shift problem and also means clutch position sensor change is required also.

Budget around £2000 for the lot.

[JMBMWM5]

detchibe said:

Hi Bruce, I concur with your thoughts about Cooper Norwich. Previously heard nothing but bad experiences but they seem to have turned things around recently and have been excellent with my 645ci and Mini. Will have to keep an eye out for you as I don't often see any M6's, I now have an Interlagos Blue Z4MR.

Cooper Norwich must have changed a lot then, I used them twice for the E90 M3 and they fercked up both times, never again.

[jcolley]

mycool said:

I got the reg cog of death in my e60 M5 last week and the car is currently in disgrace outside my house after requiring recovery to get me and it home!

After a bit of advice as to what could have happened?
Its booked into my local Indy for Monday as the Stealer will no doubt try to fit a new gearbox!

Issue occurred as follows:

Car was warm after some spirited but certainly not flat out driving. Pulling out of a roundabout in 2nd gear (in P500s, medium revs), pulled for 3rd gear and got a flashing gear indicator some light clunking and then rough shift, accompanied by red cog.

Had to then stop in traffic before the next roundabout (I was in Milton Keynes!) and when I went to pull away it wouldn't shift into 1st.

Tried again with both paddles and shifter, got clunking again and flashing indicator but no shift or forward motion.

Turned car off and on again and selected drive and got yellow cog but no shift. Tried N then D again and got clunking and an attempted shift and then some grinding like when you half-shift but miss in a manual box. Red Cog again.

All this whilst sat stationary in the outside lane of a dual carriageway with traffic trying to negotiate around me.

Tried reverse and again a clunk but no shift. Thankfully(!) the car was stuck in Neutral so managed to push it into a side road and called recovery.

Car has done 49k miles and to my knowledge hasn't had a clutch replaced.


So having read various forums, I'm now fearing the worst but need some advice on where to start the Indy looking - cheapest fix first, etc.
They think possible a clutch failure but did say they would start with the solenoids valves and sensors in case they have failed.

Help much appreciated but am prepared for a 4 figure bill

Ask for the error code stored in the SMG module before you authorize any parts to be replaced. I've seen hundreds of cases with the SMG III and less than 5 were problems with the solenoid control valves.

PLCD sensors are common errors and provide the unique 510D and 510E codes.

Pressure undershoot and motor duty cycle are the next most common errors and typically indicated either the SMG pump relay ( < $20USD in parts) or the SMG pump motor (~ $350USD in parts).

Only on rare occasions do the clutch control solenoid valves requires replacement and a good thing at nearly $850 USD in parts. Failure mode of these has yet to be confirmed, but I suspect misdiagnosis on most. I have 3 to dismantle and look it, haven't had time yet.

Clutch, flywheel, release lever, guide bushing (redesigned by BMW...oops), pivot ball, etc are also common, but very obviously the cause on removal of transmission. Do not let yourself be told the flywheel must be replaced under all circumstances...not true unless there are hotspots of wear.

Failed clutch disks are not uncommon at low mileage and indicated by impingement damage all around the inside of the bell housing due to a rivet that has let go of a friction pad and had its way inside there (occasionally obliterating the surface of the crank position sensor and damaging flywheel sensor teeth)

By all means, post here or email me if you like, I've been playing with this transmission for a long time and I'm one of the few who actually like it.

[mycool]

Many thanks for the advice so far...

and the fault codes are in....

4F80 - SMG Transmission
4F82 - SMG Engage 1/R gear not possible
5F401 or 5F41 and/or 5F40 - must have misheard this one as cant find it - any ideas?
4F85 - SMG Engage 4/2 gear not possible

My Indy says all pointing to clutch (and possibly flywheel). They will pull the box tomorrow to find out for sure.

Other than getting the release bearing and sleeve done whilst its out, anything else I should be considering?

[mycool]

think its this:
5F41 Transfer case: limp-home operation

[Schermerhorn]

mycool said:

Many thanks for the advice so far...

and the fault codes are in....

4F80 - SMG Transmission
4F82 - SMG Engage 1/R gear not possible
5F401 or 5F41 and/or 5F40 - must have misheard this one as cant find it - any ideas?
4F85 - SMG Engage 4/2 gear not possible

My Indy says all pointing to clutch (and possibly flywheel). They will pull the box tomorrow to find out for sure.

Other than getting the release bearing and sleeve done whilst its out, anything else I should be considering?

Clutch position sensor.

I have a spare one if you want to buy it from me? It's about £315 from the main dealer. I'm happy to sell mine for £285 if you want it.


I can send it out to you via Special Delivery for next working day delivery if you like, or you can come and collect it if you're not too far from Huddersfield.