E39 M5: Buy without warranty?
Discussion
I have had two M5's, and yes they are a great product.
The first was a 1999 model bought from a reputable BMW dealer near Gatwick, it was fine for the first couple of weeks, but then problems started to arise, first was the general running, this was sorted out by the garage by resetting the throttles, common problem!
Then i had a major clutch judder, again cured by a new clutch, warranty job.
A few months later the Vanos developed a hiccup, BMW could not rectify so a new unit was duly fitted which cured the awfull running.
Three weeks later the engine seized !!!
cause was that the vanos unit was leaking oil and loosing oil pressure, a new engine was fitted which cost circa £11000 + vat, BMW picked up the bill again.
I returned the car saying i was not happy and decided to buy another newer M5,after numerous problems again i now have an AUDI.
The first was a 1999 model bought from a reputable BMW dealer near Gatwick, it was fine for the first couple of weeks, but then problems started to arise, first was the general running, this was sorted out by the garage by resetting the throttles, common problem!
Then i had a major clutch judder, again cured by a new clutch, warranty job.
A few months later the Vanos developed a hiccup, BMW could not rectify so a new unit was duly fitted which cured the awfull running.
Three weeks later the engine seized !!!
cause was that the vanos unit was leaking oil and loosing oil pressure, a new engine was fitted which cost circa £11000 + vat, BMW picked up the bill again.
I returned the car saying i was not happy and decided to buy another newer M5,after numerous problems again i now have an AUDI.
I think you'll alway find people out there with bad stories to tell. However there are an awful lot of M5 owners out there with no problems at all.
I have been runnning my M5 for too small a time to comment about most of this but I would contest his MPG. The only way I can make my M5 do 22 mpg is to switch it onto sport mode continuously and drive like an absolute madman.
On normal mode I am averaging 25-26 at the moment. Most of that is town driving. It has to be cos I'm a GP doing house calls which is nightmare stop start driving.
If I reset my Mpg on a motorway, I will get 30mpg out of it.
Although this is an absolute guess, the low mpg he was experiencing may have been an early warning sign??
I have been runnning my M5 for too small a time to comment about most of this but I would contest his MPG. The only way I can make my M5 do 22 mpg is to switch it onto sport mode continuously and drive like an absolute madman.
On normal mode I am averaging 25-26 at the moment. Most of that is town driving. It has to be cos I'm a GP doing house calls which is nightmare stop start driving.
If I reset my Mpg on a motorway, I will get 30mpg out of it.
Although this is an absolute guess, the low mpg he was experiencing may have been an early warning sign??
Julian64 said:
I have been runnning my M5 for too small a time to comment about most of this but I would contest his MPG. The only way I can make my M5 do 22 mpg is to switch it onto sport mode continuously and drive like an absolute madman.
On normal mode I am averaging 25-26 at the moment. Most of that is town driving. It has to be cos I'm a GP doing house calls which is nightmare stop start driving.
If I reset my Mpg on a motorway, I will get 30mpg out of it.
Although this is an absolute guess, the low mpg he was experiencing may have been an early warning sign??
Sure it's not a 530d??!!
Ive got a 540sport, get 30 on motorway/run. But round milton keynes (you know, they have a roundabout or two) I get 18mpg.
eliot said:
I have been runnning my M5 for too small a time to comment about most of this but I would contest his MPG. The only way I can make my M5 do 22 mpg is to switch it onto sport mode continuously and drive like an absolute madman.
On normal mode I am averaging 25-26 at the moment. Most of that is town driving. It has to be cos I'm a GP doing house calls which is nightmare stop start driving.
If I reset my Mpg on a motorway, I will get 30mpg out of it.
Although this is an absolute guess, the low mpg he was experiencing may have been an early warning sign??
Sure it's not a 530d??!!
Ive got a 540sport, get 30 on motorway/run. But round milton keynes (you know, they have a roundabout or two) I get 18mpg.
Well, again, I struggle to understand. To go from 30mpg to 18mpg is a huge difference in mpg.
My Cerb will get 21-23 on really conservative driving and then down to 16 on fast road stuff. Thats a difference of 30% in an engine designed for performance at the cost of fuel consumption. God help anyone who lights a cigarette at the end of the exhaust pipe.
I could probably push that down further on a track, but I really be going for it, and who drives like that on the road? I would expect a smaller differential in a car with a tighter feedback loop and variable valve timing.
Your getting more like a 50% drop !
eliot said:
See Milton Keynes is all start stop, so unless you feather the throttle and get overtaken by Minis and Milkfloats it just drinks petrol.
My mate in his 740i is getting 15mpg in mk mpg but the same 30mpg on a run, presumably down to the extra lardyness of the 7 series.
For the extra luxury etc etc it would be worth me flogging the 523i, buying a 740, (which incidentally I think are better looking cars) and keeping the money to throw fuel at it. Seemingly there isn't a great deal of difference.
Wonder what a 728i will do.......Surely they can't be worse on fuel or slower than mine?silverback mike said:
My 523i only manages 17mpg for choked up traffic - school runs etc etc.
Keeps to about 30mpg with motorway trips, combined 23mpg if I am lucky. It is an auto, and must admit, it is damned thirsty, especially as it won't set your pants on fire.
That's bad, I get 23/23.5mpg combined in the M5 and I don't hang around. The 728 is a tad underpowered, 740 is a hoot and returns 19mpg combined
eliot said:
I have been runnning my M5 for too small a time to comment about most of this but I would contest his MPG. The only way I can make my M5 do 22 mpg is to switch it onto sport mode continuously and drive like an absolute madman.
On normal mode I am averaging 25-26 at the moment. Most of that is town driving. It has to be cos I'm a GP doing house calls which is nightmare stop start driving.
If I reset my Mpg on a motorway, I will get 30mpg out of it.
Although this is an absolute guess, the low mpg he was experiencing may have been an early warning sign??
Sure it's not a 530d??!!
Ive got a 540sport, get 30 on motorway/run. But round milton keynes (you know, they have a roundabout or two) I get 18mpg.
the stuff! Revitalising this thread to ask a few questions:
- How long will BMW keep allowing you to extend the warranty on an M5? For instance if you find/buy a 2001 car with a warranty (is it transferrable?), how long could you keep this up before BMW triple the cost or something to get rid of you?
- Seems the main really expensive problem is the VANOS. Once this has been replaced on an M5, will it go wrong again? i.e. have BMW fixed the design? Or is this another TVR Speed Six "nobody really knows" situation?
I'm toying with what happens to my fleet in the future ... something largish and sporting/fast for day-to-day work and something with a fat V8, possibly a yank tank for fun (or a Mk1 Escort with a stupidly huge engine).
- How long will BMW keep allowing you to extend the warranty on an M5? For instance if you find/buy a 2001 car with a warranty (is it transferrable?), how long could you keep this up before BMW triple the cost or something to get rid of you?
- Seems the main really expensive problem is the VANOS. Once this has been replaced on an M5, will it go wrong again? i.e. have BMW fixed the design? Or is this another TVR Speed Six "nobody really knows" situation?
I'm toying with what happens to my fleet in the future ... something largish and sporting/fast for day-to-day work and something with a fat V8, possibly a yank tank for fun (or a Mk1 Escort with a stupidly huge engine).
A lot of threads around this at the moment.
I just got my 2000 996 Carrera with a Porsche warranty from a Porsche dealer. Would not have entertained buying one any other way. And I accept I probably paid through the nose a bit for the privilege.
How anyone can drive a car which was £65k+ new with an engine that costs £11k if it goes pop is beyond me unless they have a bulletproof manufacturer's warranty.
£725 per year seems as cheap as chips to me to buy peace of mind.....
BMW warranties have previosuly saved me thousands. ScoobyZoom is dead right. You can keep extending them just about for ever. My Dad has my old 318iS Coupe and has just renewed the warranty for £400 - it's a 1994 L reg with 87k miles and he's claimed for a new engine and some other bits and pieces over the last few years. It has MORE than paid for itself five times over. Not so much as a quibble.
If you're buiyng an M5 (or any other expensive motor a few years old) for GOD'S SAKE spend a bit extra and get one with backup, otherwise the experience will be ruined by fear of the worst happening.
>> Edited by Vesuvius996 on Sunday 27th February 18:17
>> Edited by Vesuvius996 on Sunday 27th February 18:19
Vesuvius996 said:
How anyone can drive a car which was £65k+ new with an engine that costs £11k if it goes pop is beyond me unless they have a bulletproof manufacturer's warranty.
How many times do you expect to go pop ?
In ordinary UK driving, a Porsche shouldn't break sweat.
I would have thought 200K no problems, and if there are
problems, I'd really want to know why.
Vesuvius996 said:
£725 per year seems as cheap as chips to me to buy peace of mind.....
725 quid in Porsche-land is small change. Same money in BMW land is a lot more.
As I've said before, buying a warranty means you
don't think you can afford to fix it when it goes
wrong.
Either you bought a car you couldn't afford to maintain, or you think you bought an unreliable car.
Either way you lose.
Individual stories about how much one owner's warranty has saved them really does cut much ice with me - I've
been bitten by too many manufacturers warranties that weren't worth the paper they were printed on.
Vesuvius996 said:
If you're buiyng an M5 (or any other expensive motor a few years old) for GOD'S SAKE spend a bit extra and get one with backup, otherwise the experience will be ruined by fear of the worst happening.
Expensive cars, old or new, don't come cheap.
Its an illusion really, this piece of mind thing.
My wife has a 95 328 touring. The engine let go at 101,000 miles. Started using oil and generally making upper end noise.
Now understand this car has no warranty. We went to BMW, complained and they gave us a new engine free of charge.
The lesson here is that if your engine breaks loose in a well tried and tested car, and you can say something sensible about why and put it at their doorstep then they will feel responsible. And I didn't pay them £500 a year for the last 10 years to make them feel that way.
My wife has a 95 328 touring. The engine let go at 101,000 miles. Started using oil and generally making upper end noise.
Now understand this car has no warranty. We went to BMW, complained and they gave us a new engine free of charge.
The lesson here is that if your engine breaks loose in a well tried and tested car, and you can say something sensible about why and put it at their doorstep then they will feel responsible. And I didn't pay them £500 a year for the last 10 years to make them feel that way.
I think I have been slightly misundestood.
£725 a year is LOT of money to me - I bought the cheapest 996 in the country, and I have saved for years to buy it, so don't think I am some high roller.
I can afford to maintain it to the tune of a thousand a year (service plus tyres plus a few bits and pieces), but I certainly can't afford £11,000 if the engine goes.
Sometimes engine just break, by their nature, and 996s ALLEGEDLY have had a few go, so I just want to play it safe.
At least if the worst happens then I have a contractual document I can use to exert pressure even if they don't play ball.
It gives me a good chance of sorting it out, without having to tow it outside the dealers and torch it in front of the press.
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