E60 M5 Clutch or Bearing! Dilemma: is Eddie (ecain63) there?

[PrettyBeast]

E60 M5 Clutch or Bearing? Dilemma: What would you do?
Pardon me, I know there is lot on the forum regarding this issue. I have searched but I have not seen a confirmation that someone actually replaced the Clutch Release Bearing & Guide Bush, and that solved the juddering problem, without replacing the Clutch and Flywheel.

Per Eddie’s post, a guy in the US did a fine job of replacing the bearing and bush himself: http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/e60-m5-e61-m5-tou .He initially confirmed that it solved the problem, but he came back and posted, ‘it did it again’. It is not clear what ‘did it again’: at first it didn’t appear that the juddering problem reoccurred, and he also had to change his clutch for an unrelated issue. I’m leaning towards that he replaced the bearing/bush and the juddering stopped.

This is my dilemma:
My car is 2005 model on 70k miles. When taking off on D1, I get a slight juddering for about a 1-2 seconds but this stops once in motion. Once in motion, gear change up/down in D and S (paddle shift) modes are fine without any juddering. When I slow down at a roundabout from D4 to D2, it hesitates for about 1 sec and then it’s fine: it seems this is somewhat normal as those who replaced their clutch complain of the same after clutch replacement. When in S mode and I slow down at a roundabout, it doesn’t judder. In all these cases, it doesn’t happen all the time. It does not have a pattern, engine cold or warm.

Clutch is not covered by my Warranty Direct cover; it is deemed a consumable part like brake discs. Yep, I knew that anyway! No £4k BMW warranty but Warranty Direct balances it up for me as I don’t drive daily, mostly only on weekends. Track days, not with my car.

I got a huge discount on Sachs Clutch kit from my dealer and I had to buy it---manager discount as I’ve bought a lot from them over the years. I also bought Luk Flywheel, not from the dealer but it is the same brand the dealer delivers in a box.
1. Now that I have the clutch kit/flywheel, and considering my car is on 70K miles, should I just replace them or should I replace only the bearing and
bush? Labour cost (BM Sport, Kent) would be the same (£468) as they would need to drop the gear box in either case. What would you do, no brainer?

2. If my clutch/flywheel are fine, and replacing the bearing and bush stops the juddering, I might still be able to use the existing clutch/flywheel for another 20k miles. And, I won’t need to buy a clutch kit when I need to replace it future. I don’t intend to sell the car any time soon and I won’t be returning the clutch kit since I got it on a good discount. On the one hand, I could spend £468 to replace the bearing/bush, and the problem reoccurs after a week, and I end up spending another £468 to fit the clutch/flywheel. I can hear myself calling myself a bum, do your Math! On the one hand, I would like to get to the bottom of this bearing versus clutch issue: I will know that I don’t “always” have to buy clutch kits in future, instead of a £133 bearing and £10 bush. What would you do?

3. I do a european road trip every summer. I could to nothing now, do my trip in June, then replace the bearing 'or' clutch/flywheel when I return. I will obviously have the clutch kit in the car when travelling, just in case!!! What would you do?

I see some pros and cons here but hey, this is why I like this forum: I know I will ‘get told’ frankly in more ways than one Opinions please!!!

[anotherdom]

My opinion - as you'll be dropping the box to fit the bearing, and already have the other parts to hand, you'd be mad not to fit them now. I get that you don't plan to sell the car, but how many more miles/clutches do you expect to get through?

[Shaoxter]

I'd say at 70k miles the clutch has had a longer life than most.

Also never drive in D...

[helix402]

Change the whole lot in one go.

[ecain63]

Howdy all! I did consider this route, but.........as has been said, you'd be daft not to change the clutch and flywheel while you're at it. Why go to all that effort and only do the 'necessary'? Peace of mind is worth a lot with these cars.

[jcolley]

If you're replacing the clutch release bearing, get the newer updated version with the Delrin inner race. There is far less change of sticky operation and galling. Also, there is a brass pivot pin which will last longer.

[PrettyBeast]

Good points! Thanks. Booked in for Clutch kit/Guide Bush/pivot Pin/spring clips and Flywheel replacement. Still curious to know if a few members changed 'only' the bearing and got positive results.
Jcolley, Good write up here:
http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/e60-m5-e61-m5-tou...

Taking up Jcolley's advice regarding getting the updated version of the Release Bearing, I opened the box and noticed that the bearing is the same one showed in the write up. At least from what I got in the box, it seems BMW<>Sachs have indeed redesigned/replaced the metal with a plastic inner race: sold as a genuine and not an aftermarket product.
If BMW only recently redesigned the bearing for E60 M5, I guess we'll see if drivers report a positive difference. From what I've read, it seems it's a recent redesign for E60 but I may be wrong!

[jcolley]

Glad to help, I hope this really is an improvement.

Just make sure they don't lubricate the points per TIS for the old stlye (i.e the guide tube). This will attract clutch dust and likely cause wear sooner.

Good luck, keep us posted.

[PrettyBeast]

Hi All, Clutch kit/Release Arm/Flywheel all done.

Eddie, The research/analysis you did makes sense when one reads it, but, it is ‘spot on’ when one actually sees the clutch kit/flywheel after they've been replaced.

From a physical point of view: Looking at the clutch kit and flywheel, I see absolutely nothing wrong with them and the technician said the same. I attach some photos. The problem item is indeed the Clutch Release Bearing; I could see how it had worn due to friction.

From a mechanical point of view: No fault codes prior to replacing the kit. The juddering has now stopped and apart from that, the car drives exactly the same: gear change all ok. This proves that apart from the worn Bearing which caused the juddering, the kit and flywheel were fine.

Jcolley, Your analysis regarding the new Bearing is spot on! One can clearly see the difference; the metal bearing will always wear out Hopefully the redesigned plastic Bearing makes a big difference.

• *******

If in the same situation in future, with no error code but only the juddering, I would definitely replace only the Bearing! Always good to change the oil gasket/seal as well, as they often leak: my oil consumption was immediately better after the seal was replaced

Thanks guys.

Edited by PrettyBeast on Wednesday 14th May 12:46