Discussion
Paracetamol said:
CaymANTH said:
Crumbs that was rusty! I need to have another look at mine..I still remain shocked at how free of rust it is compared to what I see in Europe!Looks like someone had already been in there previous for repairs. Anyway, the repair looks good.
Really interesting reading through this thread on how the prices have risen over the last 10 years, but so has restoration costs which is bit of a rip off considering some aspects.
I have a 1987 totally original throughout M3 that I now have up on axle stands in the garage, thought its best to give it a good going over and stop any problems before they get too big, I find it strange though the costs of what some people quote here for restoration work, it seems some people believe that a restoration is about buying all brand new parts and paying a huge premium because its a modern classic, hence driving the costs through the roof.
To me a restoration is about tackling areas/parts one at a time and assessing what work is needed or if it should be replaced, if it needs to be replaced then fine but replacing parts that need a clean up or paint is just throwing money away, also the cost of certain parts can easily be reduced, simple things like high tensile bolts that are £3 each from BMW can be had on the bay for pence.
Body work can be expensive if there is a lot of rust but body work is body work, regardless of the car being a E30 M3, its not a an E Type requiring hand made panels, it seems the value of the car is assessed and then an over inflated quote given if its a modern classic which is bit of a rip off, same with a respray, quotes of 5k for a same colour respray are over the top, if you asked for the same job on a 2010 Vauxhall Astra it would be hell of a lot less but intrinsically the same thing.
I have a 1987 totally original throughout M3 that I now have up on axle stands in the garage, thought its best to give it a good going over and stop any problems before they get too big, I find it strange though the costs of what some people quote here for restoration work, it seems some people believe that a restoration is about buying all brand new parts and paying a huge premium because its a modern classic, hence driving the costs through the roof.
To me a restoration is about tackling areas/parts one at a time and assessing what work is needed or if it should be replaced, if it needs to be replaced then fine but replacing parts that need a clean up or paint is just throwing money away, also the cost of certain parts can easily be reduced, simple things like high tensile bolts that are £3 each from BMW can be had on the bay for pence.
Body work can be expensive if there is a lot of rust but body work is body work, regardless of the car being a E30 M3, its not a an E Type requiring hand made panels, it seems the value of the car is assessed and then an over inflated quote given if its a modern classic which is bit of a rip off, same with a respray, quotes of 5k for a same colour respray are over the top, if you asked for the same job on a 2010 Vauxhall Astra it would be hell of a lot less but intrinsically the same thing.
Edited by murkey on Thursday 12th January 15:29
murkey said:
Body work can be expensive if there is a lot of rust but body work is body work, regardless of the car being a E30 M3, its not a an E Type requiring hand made panels, it seems the value of the car is assessed and then an over inflated quote given if its a modern classic which is bit of a rip off, same with a respray, quotes of 5k for a same colour respray are over the top, if you asked for the same job on a 2010 Vauxhall Astra it would be hell of a lot less but intrinsically the same thing.
Unless they're repairs to the panels that are NLA, in which case hand made panels are exactly what is required. Many of the replacement panels now supplied by BMW are made in Sweden and the fit is pretty poor. The windscreen scuttle are a prime example where fitting requires metal working skills that many modern bodyshops simply do not possess, as they aren't required for the likes of a 2010 Vauxhall. When it comes to paint you simply get what you pay for. It's the preparation that dictates the quality of finish and for that reason, I am prepared to pay for a quality job. Yes, I could probably get it painted more cheaply by using one of the people advertising in my local paper, but I prefer to use someone who's work is proven and of a high quality.
murkey said:
Really interesting reading through this thread on how the prices have risen over the last 10 years, but so has restoration costs which is bit of a rip off considering some aspects.
I have a 1987 totally original throughout M3 that I now have up on axle stands in the garage, thought its best to give it a good going over and stop any problems before they get too big, I find it strange though the costs of what some people quote here for restoration work, it seems some people believe that a restoration is about buying all brand new parts and paying a huge premium because its a modern classic, hence driving the costs through the roof.
To me a restoration is about tackling areas/parts one at a time and assessing what work is needed or if it should be replaced, if it needs to be replaced then fine but replacing parts that need a clean up or paint is just throwing money away, also the cost of certain parts can easily be reduced, simple things like high tensile bolts that are £3 each from BMW can be had on the bay for pence.
Body work can be expensive if there is a lot of rust but body work is body work, regardless of the car being a E30 M3, its not a an E Type requiring hand made panels, it seems the value of the car is assessed and then an over inflated quote given if its a modern classic which is bit of a rip off, same with a respray, quotes of 5k for a same colour respray are over the top, if you asked for the same job on a 2010 Vauxhall Astra it would be hell of a lot less but intrinsically the same thing.
Rising prices puts the cars into the collector car arena where some will want restorations which are technically perfect, but as you say really a ton of new parts. Probably with the effect they won't get driven and just become investments not to be spoilt. I have a 1987 totally original throughout M3 that I now have up on axle stands in the garage, thought its best to give it a good going over and stop any problems before they get too big, I find it strange though the costs of what some people quote here for restoration work, it seems some people believe that a restoration is about buying all brand new parts and paying a huge premium because its a modern classic, hence driving the costs through the roof.
To me a restoration is about tackling areas/parts one at a time and assessing what work is needed or if it should be replaced, if it needs to be replaced then fine but replacing parts that need a clean up or paint is just throwing money away, also the cost of certain parts can easily be reduced, simple things like high tensile bolts that are £3 each from BMW can be had on the bay for pence.
Body work can be expensive if there is a lot of rust but body work is body work, regardless of the car being a E30 M3, its not a an E Type requiring hand made panels, it seems the value of the car is assessed and then an over inflated quote given if its a modern classic which is bit of a rip off, same with a respray, quotes of 5k for a same colour respray are over the top, if you asked for the same job on a 2010 Vauxhall Astra it would be hell of a lot less but intrinsically the same thing.
Edited by murkey on Thursday 12th January 15:29
Oddly, most of the HT bolts for my own bare shell resto have come from BMW. Partly because I wouldn't trust eBay vendors, and partly because a lot of them are odd sizes. There is plenty of savings to be made and still be using original parts, such as not buying Bosch parts that come via a BMW dealer at three times the price.
I spoke to a guy rebuilding a Sport Evo once who was almost obsessed with buying only BMW parts and from UK dealer. I said he was spending money like crazy that must run into thousands wasted on the exact same parts. He was sure a wedge of dealer receipts would make his car more valuable. I wasn't convinced.
True they are collectors cars now, but along with that I think the service history side of the car is becoming less important, yes its nice to have a folder of service bills but classic cars in general are more judged on the condition at that moment in time through a thorough inspection than the paperwork.
A lot goes for the seller too, buying from a fellow enthusiast is much more appealing than buying from say a used car dealer that doesn't know much about the car.
With my own car which I'am now lightly restoring I'am taking pictures of all the work before and after including the materials/parts I have used, I have no intention of ever selling the car but it's nice to keep that personal record of how and what was done, records of restoration like this are more important in the long run than service history..
A lot goes for the seller too, buying from a fellow enthusiast is much more appealing than buying from say a used car dealer that doesn't know much about the car.
With my own car which I'am now lightly restoring I'am taking pictures of all the work before and after including the materials/parts I have used, I have no intention of ever selling the car but it's nice to keep that personal record of how and what was done, records of restoration like this are more important in the long run than service history..
murkey said:
True they are collectors cars now, but along with that I think the service history side of the car is becoming less important, yes its nice to have a folder of service bills but classic cars in general are more judged on the condition at that moment in time through a thorough inspection than the paperwork.
A lot goes for the seller too, buying from a fellow enthusiast is much more appealing than buying from say a used car dealer that doesn't know much about the car.
With my own car which I'am now lightly restoring I'am taking pictures of all the work before and after including the materials/parts I have used, I have no intention of ever selling the car but it's nice to keep that personal record of how and what was done, records of restoration like this are more important in the long run than service history..
One of the benefits to being a member here is the ability to record ownership and show how our cars are used and maintained. My M3 came with very little in the way of service history, although I have since traced all bar one previous owners and one of them has all the history in storage. Unfortunately he now lives in New Zealand and I will have to wait till he visits family in Ireland, before I am able to have it sent on to me. Some folk warned me against buying an M3 that had seen track use but as you say, I went on condition and bought what was actually a pretty sound car. I spent the next 2 years bringing it up to scratch and dealing with the corrosion, which I think you need to accept as part of buying cars from this era. Before values rose though, it's easy to see why so many faced neglect and/or bodged repairs or were written off for uneconomical repair. A lot goes for the seller too, buying from a fellow enthusiast is much more appealing than buying from say a used car dealer that doesn't know much about the car.
With my own car which I'am now lightly restoring I'am taking pictures of all the work before and after including the materials/parts I have used, I have no intention of ever selling the car but it's nice to keep that personal record of how and what was done, records of restoration like this are more important in the long run than service history..
With 10k seeming to be the new magic figure for a bare metal respray, add 500 hours for body and engine work at 50 GBP per hour..add 10k for parts...you are soon looking at 50k spend plus a min acquisition price of not less than 25k..and of course everyone still wants full history even though the car has been fully rebuilt..
Potential rust free Cabrio needing work on Ebay at the moment.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/bmw-e30-m3-1991-s14/2725...
In my opinion very expensive for the less desirable Cabrio, but if people are prepared to pay who am I to complain.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/bmw-e30-m3-1991-s14/2725...
In my opinion very expensive for the less desirable Cabrio, but if people are prepared to pay who am I to complain.
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