F10 M5 Windscreen Replacement

[W8PMC]

Managed to pick up a not insignificant stone chip on the top left of my windscreen, thrown up by a cheese eating surrender monkeys Renault banger en route home from Le Mans. Was a tad pi$$ed off as the car is only a few weeks old & only covered 2k miles, however i assumed a repair would be straight forward & thought nothing more of it until turning up at my local Autoglass last Thursday.

The Engineer stated that due to the location of said chip it was possible a repair attempt could cause a stress crack & low & behold that's exactly what happened. Now a little annoyed but not overly i stated that a replacement would naturally be needed & could they sort this ASAP.

This is where for a few days things took a severe downward turn. Without boring you with the full details, basically Tesco Insurance didn't want to assist as they have a dedicated Windscreen repair/replacement service managed through National Windscreens (used to be Autoglass) & as i'd not followed the correct procedure i was only able to claim £175 towards the screen cost & this with an excess of £75 so net £100. A new OEM M5 screen fitted is just shy of £1000 so i was facing a big hit now. I kicked off with Autoglass for not stating this & therefore exposing me to a potential huge bill as they should have told me to ring my Insurer before they cracked my screen (knowingly) during the repair attempt. I also kicked off at Tesco Insurance for not being clearer in NOT using the obvious choice for a windscreen repair as per Autoglass's advertising & this compounded by the fact the Autoglass ARE an approved Tesco Windscreen repairer, but no longer their preferred.

After many calls & quite a bit of shouting, Tesco backed down & stated they would cover the cost of a NON OEM screen replacement by Autoglass. It's worth noting the little BMW stamp on the glass actually equates to £240 but i'm lead to believe the BMW stamp is the only difference between an OEM & non OEM screen. I then spoke to BMW & they stated that having a non OEM screen fitted could invalidate the cars warranty on technology linked/associated to the windscreen such as the various sensors, HUD & cameras. Getting more & more frustrated i then get back in touch with my Insurer to really this info & initially they were totally unconcerned & confirmed the actual screens are identical other than this bloody BMW logo stamped on the bottom corner.

After more calls i got this overruled & a new OEM screen is en route to Autoglass which will hopefully be fitted 1st thing Saturday.

Quick question, has anyone had a replacement screen fitted & if so did everything work as it should post replacement?

[ManiacGT]

Wow, life really is a constant battle these days. I've had a chip in my e89 screen for a while. I've left it alone until it becomes much more serious having read so many PITA stories. I hope you get a good outcome OP.

[TheAngryDog]

^^^ What? I had to recently claim for a new windscreen for my E39. Before I did anything I checked my documentation. If people cannot be bothered to check theirs, why is that the fault of the insurer / glass fitting company?

[Schermerhorn]

I got a chip in my M6's windscreen a few months ago. Had to wait 3 weeks for a replacement but OEM screen.

Life shouldn't have to be so difficult with insurance and windscreen companies.

I feel for you OP.

[W8PMC]

TheAngryDog said:

^^^ What? I had to recently claim for a new windscreen for my E39. Before I did anything I checked my documentation. If people cannot be bothered to check theirs, why is that the fault of the insurer / glass fitting company?

Because i was initially dealing with a stone chip (have you not seen the Autoglass adverts?). I DID read my Policy prior to calling Autoglass & no mention anywhere of National Windscreens. However i was later (once the chip became a full replacement) directed by Tesco Insurance to the 'policy handbook' that i allegedly should have downloaded when i took out the Policy. I had naturally downloaded the Policy document pack when cover was taken out, but hadn't spotted the link at the bottom of the welcome email to the 'policy handbook'

Perhaps you are the one person who reads the policy handbook in full, but i like most concentrate on the actual Policy, Schedule & Proposal etc. & these made no reference to National Windscreen & anyhow, Autoglass (as i said in my op) confirmed that if the windscreen cracked during repair then not to worry as i'd be covered by my policy which i think you'll find was incorrect.

[W8PMC]

Schermerhorn said:

I got a chip in my M6's windscreen a few months ago. Had to wait 3 weeks for a replacement but OEM screen.

Life shouldn't have to be so difficult with insurance and windscreen companies.

I feel for you OP.

Could the chip not be repaired? Autoglass had no issue trying a repair on mine & i was happy with that as the chip was well out of sight, however due to the screen being bonded i was told a stress crack was likely to occur during repair.

Any idea why you had to wait 3 weeks?

[Schermerhorn]

W8PMC said:

Schermerhorn said:

I got a chip in my M6's windscreen a few months ago. Had to wait 3 weeks for a replacement but OEM screen.

Life shouldn't have to be so difficult with insurance and windscreen companies.

I feel for you OP.

Could the chip not be repaired? Autoglass had no issue trying a repair on mine & i was happy with that as the chip was well out of sight, however due to the screen being bonded i was told a stress crack was likely to occur during repair.

Any idea why you had to wait 3 weeks?

Mine looked like a person had shot it with a very accurate BB gun. The cracks with neatly positioned one on top of the other. I think it would have spread to be fair.

Re the 3 weeks, Autoglass offered to fit a standard E63 6 series windscreen which I declined. I told them it had HUD and that is what I wanted. Given that I used it so little at the time; March time, short days etc - I was happy to wait.

The original had to be imported in according to Autoglass. I don't know if that is true or not though.

[Bobafett]

I had Autoglass fit a generic front screen on my E39 M5. Absolutely dreadful, wrong shade of tint, and glass was not uniformed - made me sea sick and queezy looking through it.

Out it came, and dealer fitted new one with the correct preloaded weights left on whilst the sealant/glue dried overnight. This is essential, as my old screen sealant came away with age, and the wind oscillating noise at serious speed was something else!

[W8PMC]

Schermerhorn said:

Mine looked like a person had shot it with a very accurate BB gun. The cracks with neatly positioned one on top of the other. I think it would have spread to be fair.

Re the 3 weeks, Autoglass offered to fit a standard E63 6 series windscreen which I declined. I told them it had HUD and that is what I wanted. Given that I used it so little at the time; March time, short days etc - I was happy to wait.

The original had to be imported in according to Autoglass. I don't know if that is true or not though.

Cheers. That's exactly why i pushed for an OEM screen as even BMW stated with a selection of sensors/systems relying on an OEM screen, i wasn't going to accept a standard screen even if they're both made by Pilkington. Now just need to hope Autoglass do a good job fitting it as am on track the day after;)

[TheAngryDog]

W8PMC said:

Because i was initially dealing with a stone chip (have you not seen the Autoglass adverts?). I DID read my Policy prior to calling Autoglass & no mention anywhere of National Windscreens. However i was later (once the chip became a full replacement) directed by Tesco Insurance to the 'policy handbook' that i allegedly should have downloaded when i took out the Policy. I had naturally downloaded the Policy document pack when cover was taken out, but hadn't spotted the link at the bottom of the welcome email to the 'policy handbook'

Perhaps you are the one person who reads the policy handbook in full, but i like most concentrate on the actual Policy, Schedule & Proposal etc. & these made no reference to National Windscreen & anyhow, Autoglass (as i said in my op) confirmed that if the windscreen cracked during repair then not to worry as i'd be covered by my policy which i think you'll find was incorrect.

I only read it when I needed to make a claim.

Your failure to download the policy booklet is not your insurance companies fault.

I would never be naive enough to take the word of a 3rd party company without consulting with my insurance company first.

Anyway, at least you're getting it sorted. Lesson to be learned here.

[Schermerhorn]

W8PMC said:

Schermerhorn said:

Mine looked like a person had shot it with a very accurate BB gun. The cracks with neatly positioned one on top of the other. I think it would have spread to be fair.

Re the 3 weeks, Autoglass offered to fit a standard E63 6 series windscreen which I declined. I told them it had HUD and that is what I wanted. Given that I used it so little at the time; March time, short days etc - I was happy to wait.

The original had to be imported in according to Autoglass. I don't know if that is true or not though.

Cheers. That's exactly why i pushed for an OEM screen as even BMW stated with a selection of sensors/systems relying on an OEM screen, i wasn't going to accept a standard screen even if they're both made by Pilkington. Now just need to hope Autoglass do a good job fitting it as am on track the day after;)

LOL....just don't follow anyone too closely on the track. When you get a chance to blast past them, go for it otherwise you'll risk all sorts of potential damage with stones etc flying up at you.

Mine happened when an idiot in a Seat Leon FR thingy wanted a race (and I didn't) so he cut across me and little stone chips landed on my wind screen. I was PEEEEEED off to say the least.

[W8PMC]

TheAngryDog said:

I only read it when I needed to make a claim.

Your failure to download the policy booklet is not your insurance companies fault.

I would never be naive enough to take the word of a 3rd party company without consulting with my insurance company first.

Anyway, at least you're getting it sorted. Lesson to be learned here.

Like i said, i read my policy documents (12 pages) fully before approaching Autoglass, however i didn't & saw no need to read my policy handbook as all the detail i needed appeared to be within the policy documents. A point Tesco Insurance obviously agreed with as why else would they now be paying out if as you say they were not at fault? That said & as you state, i will certainly always read the policy handbook in future years so a lesson most certainly learnt.

Also worth noting that had Tesco not been accepting some liability i would have been all over Autoglass as they at no point stated i might be at risk should the windscreen crack. They also had access to all my insurance details from Tesco so made it very clear they were fully approved but as it turned out not the preferred. Exact sentence from the Branch Manager was 'don't worry if the windscreen cracks as we'll replace this under my insurance policy' a statement that was clear incorrect & misguided.

[London GT3]

I had a non BMW screen fitted to my old X6 and it was by no means perfect. It had what can only be described as a gentle bulge towards the top which was most noticeable from the outside. It never did look right. It was Pilkington or Saint Gobain (I can't remember which) so it was a proper screen but just not as good as OEM.

I think Glassman on here will confirm that there is more to an OEM screen than the manufacturers logo.

[Glassman]

Apologies for the multi-quoting.

W8PMC said:

The Engineer stated that due to the location of said chip it was possible a repair attempt could cause a stress crack & low & behold that's exactly what happened. Now a little annoyed but not overly i stated that a replacement would naturally be needed & could they sort this ASAP.

Did he not attempt to cool the surface area down first? If the repairer was Autoglass, their kit is a nightmare in the hotter temperatures (based on my own use of one for +6 years during my time there). Either way, this warmer weather makes windscreen repair tricky, but not impossible. There are procedures to follow (drying out the break, cooling down, crack manipulation etc) but the AG kit/training does not accommodate any of this. Interestingly, we were advised to get cars into shade, and/or put the AC on if they were too hot to work on (yet the advert you refer to suggests that doing so could crack the screen...).

Signing the disclaimer covers the liability but in most cases, it gives them two bites at the cherry IMHO.

W8PMC said:

This is where for a few days things took a severe downward turn. Without boring you with the full details, basically Tesco Insurance didn't want to assist as they have a dedicated Windscreen repair/replacement service managed through National Windscreens (used to be Autoglass) & as i'd not followed the correct procedure i was only able to claim £175 towards the screen cost & this with an excess of £75 so net £100. A new OEM M5 screen fitted is just shy of £1000 so i was facing a big hit now. I kicked off with Autoglass for not stating this & therefore exposing me to a potential huge bill as they should have told me to ring my Insurer before they cracked my screen (knowingly) during the repair attempt. I also kicked off at Tesco Insurance for not being clearer in NOT using the obvious choice for a windscreen repair as per Autoglass's advertising & this compounded by the fact the Autoglass ARE an approved Tesco Windscreen repairer, but no longer their preferred.

I hate the term 'approved' as all it means is that the prevailing 'nominated' or preferred supplier is contracted to supply them (usually at a very low average invoice price). Autoglass do set the bar very high (which then enables them the generosity of offering huge discounts to insurers). Generally speaking, the low invoice values for these 'approved repairer' contracts mean that the repairer will be fitting cheaper glass to your car in order to retain a margin overall. It's a numbers game.

W8PMC said:

After many calls & quite a bit of shouting, Tesco backed down & stated they would cover the cost of a NON OEM screen replacement by Autoglass. It's worth noting the little BMW stamp on the glass actually equates to £240 but i'm lead to believe the BMW stamp is the only difference between an OEM & non OEM screen. I then spoke to BMW & they stated that having a non OEM screen fitted could invalidate the cars warranty on technology linked/associated to the windscreen such as the various sensors, HUD & cameras. Getting more & more frustrated i then get back in touch with my Insurer to really this info & initially they were totally unconcerned & confirmed the actual screens are identical other than this bloody BMW logo stamped on the bottom corner.

Rubbish. They are not the same screens. Only in rare cases you will find that the 'non OEM branded' screens are the same as the OEM branded (the car manufacturer logo will have been removed). But generally speaking, if it does not show the emblem/motif etc, it's not the same glass, and is very likely that it wasn't even made in the same country never mind same production line.

I did a bit of research into the subject and the glass manufacturers are not giving anything away: http://www.glasstecpaul.com/windscreen-manufacture...

W8PMC said:

After more calls i got this overruled & a new OEM screen is en route to Autoglass which will hopefully be fitted 1st thing Saturday.

Quick question, has anyone had a replacement screen fitted & if so did everything work as it should post replacement?

Much will depend on who you get on the day. IME, I would insist on OEM parts (and I mean, all the additional parts which the approved repairers tend not to fit to keep the expense down).

http://www.glasstecpaul.com/bmw-5-f10f11-windscree... is a brief guide and shows fitment of a genuine BMW windscreen with all the associated parts. Note the seal on the inside of the glass; not everyone will replace it - what you don't know won't hurt you etc.

I think your situation is a good example of why it is so important to make sure these things are thrashed out BEFORE policy inception. Personally, I'd rather pay for the screen myself, or pay the extra/supplement to have the restriction/capping/limit removed. Also, this is a claim scenario and a salient point which IMHO, should be discussed in terms of what would happen in the event of.

ICOBS 6.1.5 is a requirement.

"A firm must take reasonable steps to ensure a customer is given appropriate information about a policy in good time and in a comprehensible form so that the customer can make an informed decision about the arrangements proposed".

6.1.7(2) is guidance (but usually followed) and "policy terms, including its main benefits, exclusions, limitations, conditions and its duration" should be shown.

Annex 2 suggests a Policy Summary to be included (it must for a life policy), and to show :-

Significant features and benefits.
Significant or unusual exclusions or limitations, and cross-references to the relevant policy document provisions.

They don't require the summary (i.e. not the small print) to show everything, just things that may not normally be found in comparable contracts.

i.e. enough information to allow them to make a informed decision.

Reading that booklet is key... but who wants to read 64 pages of stuff that makes no sense?

[-Z-]

Can only speak for myself but I had a generic screen fitted to my F10 M and its perfect. Everything works as it should

[W8PMC]

Glassman said:

Much will depend on who you get on the day. IME, I would insist on OEM parts (and I mean, all the additional parts which the approved repairers tend not to fit to keep the expense down).

http://www.glasstecpaul.com/bmw-5-f10f11-windscree... is a brief guide and shows fitment of a genuine BMW windscreen with all the associated parts. Note the seal on the inside of the glass; not everyone will replace it - what you don't know won't hurt you etc.

I think your situation is a good example of why it is so important to make sure these things are thrashed out BEFORE policy inception. Personally, I'd rather pay for the screen myself, or pay the extra/supplement to have the restriction/capping/limit removed. Also, this is a claim scenario and a salient point which IMHO, should be discussed in terms of what would happen in the event of.

ICOBS 6.1.5 is a requirement.

"A firm must take reasonable steps to ensure a customer is given appropriate information about a policy in good time and in a comprehensible form so that the customer can make an informed decision about the arrangements proposed".

6.1.7(2) is guidance (but usually followed) and "policy terms, including its main benefits, exclusions, limitations, conditions and its duration" should be shown.

Annex 2 suggests a Policy Summary to be included (it must for a life policy), and to show :-

Significant features and benefits.
Significant or unusual exclusions or limitations, and cross-references to the relevant policy document provisions.

They don't require the summary (i.e. not the small print) to show everything, just things that may not normally be found in comparable contracts.

i.e. enough information to allow them to make a informed decision.

Reading that booklet is key... but who wants to read 64 pages of stuff that makes no sense?

Thanks Glassman. I was fairly confident Autoglass & my Insurer were lying relative to OEM & non OEM screens being identical other than the BMW logo, which is why i pointed the same question to BMW & they said only OEM was acceptable & after much fighting that's now what i'm getting.

TBH, the Autoglass Engineer didn't give me much info relating to the chip/possible cracking, other than the chip being very close to the top right corner which being a bonded screen was quite likely to result in a stress crack during repair. In this he was correct as after scraping the chip a little to clean it, he applied the cup & within seconds the screen cracked.

Defo a lesson learnt, but the end result is acceptable so other than the hassle factor, all should be well. Just hoping all the connected systems work after the screen replacement & they don't cause any paintwork damage whilst fitting the new screen

[Glassman]

W8PMC said:

, he applied the cup & within seconds the screen cracked.

...mainly due to the warmer temperature, and not helped by the type of kit it is (IMO, it's flawed by way of design).

[chris56]

This is a direct consequence of poor research - firstly by not reading what you were buying when taking out Tesco Insurance - presumably you went for Tesco Insurance because they were one of the cheapest quotes and secondly not checking what you could claim for before allowing Autoglass to work on the car windscreen.
One of the most likely claims on your car insurance policy is a windscreen claim and insurers are trying to weasel out of paying for proper screens by imposing excess clauses if you do not use their chosen (cheapest) windscreen supplier.
Classic case of you get what you pay for.

[W8PMC]

chris56 said:

This is a direct consequence of poor research - firstly by not reading what you were buying when taking out Tesco Insurance - presumably you went for Tesco Insurance because they were one of the cheapest quotes and secondly not checking what you could claim for before allowing Autoglass to work on the car windscreen.
One of the most likely claims on your car insurance policy is a windscreen claim and insurers are trying to weasel out of paying for proper screens by imposing excess clauses if you do not use their chosen (cheapest) windscreen supplier.
Classic case of you get what you pay for.

A very unusual response.

Having owned many let's say many pleasant vehicles & having insured all of them, where would you class Tesco Insurance as any better worse than every other available motor insurer? As far as i'm concerned & i'm no expert but fairly well qualified, good value & reputable can be found easily & i'd put many of your Household name Car insurers in this camp & in fact many are basically umbrella companies for one physical insurer.

I'd eat my policy booklet if anyone chose an insurer purely due to their levels of windscreen cover & excess for the same. I'm fine in the knowledge i should have paid more attention to the handbook, whilst at the same time Tesco Insurance & Autoglass should have paid more attention in their levels of communication & customer service.

I doff my cap in you're being correct that Tesco were in fact the cheapest this year for my M5 (first time they've ever come close to a good quote), but i've been with Kwik Fit, Direct Line, CCI, Elephant, Admiral & many others over the years & i VERY MUCH check that i'm getting the correct cover for my needs & dealing with a reputable firm, however i don't pay a huge amount of attention to windscreen cover.

Pretty sure i did get what i expected from Tesco insurance as my OEM (BMW stamped) screen has arrived at Autoglass & will be fitted to my car tomorrow

Lastly & as said above, i approached Autoglass regarding the repair before speaking with my insurer & they (Autoglass) confirmed they were an approved Tesco windscreen repair/replacement company, had access to my policy details & assured me all was well even should the screen crack during the repair. Perhaps believing Autoglass was stupid of me, but i saw no reason to think they were lying which to be fair they were.

[Palmball]

Sounds like the typical replacement screen ballache here....you have my sympathy!

In my experience, there are slight differences between OEM and non-OEM screens - the rain sensors in particular seem to work less effectively on the non-OEM screen. So BMW may have a point re warranty, as the bit's attached to the screen are potentially not the same as original. I always fight for an OEM replacement and it ALWAYS seems to be a fight, regardless of who the insurer is.

Heres a mildly amusing story about when my missus needed a new screen on her previous M135i. She was very clear with the insurer that the car had a shaded band so the new screen needed to be the same. She didn't insist on OEM, as we were selling the car. Chap comes out and fits the screen, confirming beforehand that the screen definitely had the shaded band. Missus checks it after he's fitted it (as she believed that in confirming it had a band, he had eyes and had checked it).....but you've guessed it, no band could be seen.

She calls the insurer again (Direct Line) who then tries to tell her it definitely has a band, but they're often 'very feint and hardly noticebale'. Amazing how the person on the other end of the phone knew exactly what screen was fitted better than the person looking at it! Anyway, after much pushing they agree to replace the screen again as there was no way she couldn't see the invisible shaded band. The replacement screen finally had the correct shaded band.....and was a genuine BMW item without asking for it!