E39 M5 to E63 650i?
Discussion
I have a 2002 E39 M5 at the moment which is nice but just not what am I after in a car anymore I don't think.
The girlfriend and I want to start doing more long distance euro touring and I've been looking ta E63 650i's as a replacement. Long story short I've all but done a deal to trade in the E39 and come away with a 650i. The test dive was superb and I do think that the figures are correct its every bit as quick as the M5.
Am I making a mistake? I have a nagging feeling that its a "downgrade" to an none M car but is subjecting a thoroughbred to long miles of motorway really the point of the M car? I know the M5 would handle better in an "all out" situation but my talent has long since run out before the either of the cars would. I love the look of the 650i and it being auto makes the long journeys easier along with the greater fuel economy and range means I'm not filling up every 5 minutes.
The loyalty to my M5 I think is coming from the pride of it being an M5, badge snobbery maybe? I got home tonight and I felt like I'd been cheating on the old girl as she sat there looking fabulous. Its a really strange sensation but I do feel guilt for using such a wonderful car for mundane journeys. I have a P38 range rover to go the shops and the tip in because I think that journey is beneath the M5 but I don't get the same feeling when considering the 650i.
I'm not really sure why I'm even writing this I think perhaps I'm looking for reassurance that I'm doing the right thing, or for people to tell me I'm a fool for considering this...
In the interest of man maths and rational the M5 has a few costs that would need to be done if I was going to keep it amounting to a service and a couple of niggly issues weighing in around £600 plus euro touring starting I need a new satnav with europe on it - £200 or so. Which is 800 towards the 650i. The garage has made me a more than fair offer on the trade in and offered me 12 months "gold" warranty 4 new tyres and some tidying up of tiny marks etc on the 650i
Basically key points, M5 is a bit leggy and a bit "good" for doing these long journeys in, 650i has done half the mileage, has a warranty and will be better for us to long loping journeys. I generally only keep cars for two years and were coming up to that point now for the M5 so that's perhaps where the first itch to change has come from. Have a missed another alternative? What does the floor think?
The girlfriend and I want to start doing more long distance euro touring and I've been looking ta E63 650i's as a replacement. Long story short I've all but done a deal to trade in the E39 and come away with a 650i. The test dive was superb and I do think that the figures are correct its every bit as quick as the M5.
Am I making a mistake? I have a nagging feeling that its a "downgrade" to an none M car but is subjecting a thoroughbred to long miles of motorway really the point of the M car? I know the M5 would handle better in an "all out" situation but my talent has long since run out before the either of the cars would. I love the look of the 650i and it being auto makes the long journeys easier along with the greater fuel economy and range means I'm not filling up every 5 minutes.
The loyalty to my M5 I think is coming from the pride of it being an M5, badge snobbery maybe? I got home tonight and I felt like I'd been cheating on the old girl as she sat there looking fabulous. Its a really strange sensation but I do feel guilt for using such a wonderful car for mundane journeys. I have a P38 range rover to go the shops and the tip in because I think that journey is beneath the M5 but I don't get the same feeling when considering the 650i.
I'm not really sure why I'm even writing this I think perhaps I'm looking for reassurance that I'm doing the right thing, or for people to tell me I'm a fool for considering this...
In the interest of man maths and rational the M5 has a few costs that would need to be done if I was going to keep it amounting to a service and a couple of niggly issues weighing in around £600 plus euro touring starting I need a new satnav with europe on it - £200 or so. Which is 800 towards the 650i. The garage has made me a more than fair offer on the trade in and offered me 12 months "gold" warranty 4 new tyres and some tidying up of tiny marks etc on the 650i
Basically key points, M5 is a bit leggy and a bit "good" for doing these long journeys in, 650i has done half the mileage, has a warranty and will be better for us to long loping journeys. I generally only keep cars for two years and were coming up to that point now for the M5 so that's perhaps where the first itch to change has come from. Have a missed another alternative? What does the floor think?
From what you said, there's unlikely to be a financial driver here: a 650i may be a bit better on fuel, and may require a little less spent on upkeep, but then that's likely offset by higher depreciation (and road tax?) and even opportunity cost of the balance? And as you can afford to keep & fuel the M5 anyway, it doesn't seem to be a critical issue.
So it comes down to you feeling that doing long trips is somehow 'below' the M5?! I think that's wrong.
Firstly, an E39 M5 is a wonderful place to spend lots of miles, and cruising on the motorway is hardly going to over-stress the engine.
Secondly, I can think of a number of Euro trips where, for various reasons, I've found myself in the 'wrong' car - only a hire car on Alpine passes with my Elise sat at home; in a 520d at Le Mans, etc. That's the beauty of the M5 - it can cruise better than most cars, but when you need it to be, it's properly enjoyable.
I think you'll regret it if you change.
So it comes down to you feeling that doing long trips is somehow 'below' the M5?! I think that's wrong.
Firstly, an E39 M5 is a wonderful place to spend lots of miles, and cruising on the motorway is hardly going to over-stress the engine.
Secondly, I can think of a number of Euro trips where, for various reasons, I've found myself in the 'wrong' car - only a hire car on Alpine passes with my Elise sat at home; in a 520d at Le Mans, etc. That's the beauty of the M5 - it can cruise better than most cars, but when you need it to be, it's properly enjoyable.
I think you'll regret it if you change.
mft said:
Secondly, I can think of a number of Euro trips where, for various reasons, I've found myself in the 'wrong' car - only a hire car on Alpine passes with my Elise sat at home; in a 520d at Le Mans, etc. That's the beauty of the M5 - it can cruise better than most cars, but when you need it to be, it's properly enjoyable.
Hit the nail on the head there. It's not just the engine power but the chassis and handling that really set M cars apart.The E63 650i will feel a bit more modern and the ride will probably be better but if you wanted that and have an upgrade itch then maybe consider an E60 M5?
As it happens the 650i is an early one with the lower road tax so that's actually the same but yes its not strictly a financial need more of I hate filling up with fuel as I do it so often in the company van. I do drive 40k+ a year just for work so there is the fact that I cant be bothered to change gear anymore as well. Small manual diesels do detract from the fun of driving!
I know what you are saying I think as I have got older though my sensible side has taken over more and I cant see where the M5 would be faster with me driving than the 650i.
Thanks for the replies chaps its interesting that you are confirming my fears. Its daft things though like my other half likes to the drive the M5 but complains the clutch is heavy etc (compared to a fiesta!) and I can never settle due to knowing the cost of the wing mirrors etc if she is driving it, sounds awful I know but I should imagine a standard E63 mirror is cheap compared to an E39 m5 one etc.
I know what you are saying I think as I have got older though my sensible side has taken over more and I cant see where the M5 would be faster with me driving than the 650i.
Thanks for the replies chaps its interesting that you are confirming my fears. Its daft things though like my other half likes to the drive the M5 but complains the clutch is heavy etc (compared to a fiesta!) and I can never settle due to knowing the cost of the wing mirrors etc if she is driving it, sounds awful I know but I should imagine a standard E63 mirror is cheap compared to an E39 m5 one etc.
I've looked at E60 M5's but the horror stories of ownership have hugely put me of.
I couldn't be doing with filling up every 250 miles in some cases that would be two tanks a day basically, the requirement of a warranty as well and the gearbox puts my of. Same with an M6.
I was at a wedding at the weekend and didn't take the M5 as felt it was a waste of 600 miles round trip on it, so I took the range rover (managed 21.2mpg!! good for that old girl) and wished I was in something quieter, faster and more econmical but loved it whilst sat for an hour in traffic each way being automatic.
Anyway point being that just as I had planned to look at the 650i on my way home, the by bizzare coincidence B&B owner actually had a 2006 650i exactly what I had planned to look at, he had had an E39 540i and then E60 M5 loved the 540i, wanted something more modern, hated the M5 for its gearbox and found the 650i a perfect blend of performance, handling, comfort and economy
I couldn't be doing with filling up every 250 miles in some cases that would be two tanks a day basically, the requirement of a warranty as well and the gearbox puts my of. Same with an M6.
I was at a wedding at the weekend and didn't take the M5 as felt it was a waste of 600 miles round trip on it, so I took the range rover (managed 21.2mpg!! good for that old girl) and wished I was in something quieter, faster and more econmical but loved it whilst sat for an hour in traffic each way being automatic.
Anyway point being that just as I had planned to look at the 650i on my way home, the by bizzare coincidence B&B owner actually had a 2006 650i exactly what I had planned to look at, he had had an E39 540i and then E60 M5 loved the 540i, wanted something more modern, hated the M5 for its gearbox and found the 650i a perfect blend of performance, handling, comfort and economy
Shaoxter said:
If you're doing 40k miles a year or 500 miles a day as you describe, maybe you need a *whisper* diesel??
People who don't like the SMG gearbox don't know how to drive and don't understand gearboxes. Harsh but true.
Perhaps i should be a little clearer i drive in total 50k a year of which 40k is in my astravan and the remaining is split between the P38 and the M5. So the replacement for the M5 would do 5/6k a year or so although id like to do a few more with the long trips etcPeople who don't like the SMG gearbox don't know how to drive and don't understand gearboxes. Harsh but true.
quavey said:
I couldn't be doing with filling up every 250 miles in some cases that would be two tanks a day basically, the requirement of a warranty as well and the gearbox puts my of. Same with an M6.
I was at a wedding at the weekend and didn't take the M5 as felt it was a waste of 600 miles round trip on it, so I took the range rover (managed 21.2mpg!! good for that old girl) and wished I was in something quieter, faster and more econmical but loved it whilst sat for an hour in traffic each way being automatic.
I'm not sure what your MPG expectations are? For a 650i, this thread suggests low 20s in mixed driving, and high 20s on a motorway run. In contrast for an M5, this thread suggests low 20s in mixed driving, and mid-high 20s on a motorway run.I was at a wedding at the weekend and didn't take the M5 as felt it was a waste of 600 miles round trip on it, so I took the range rover (managed 21.2mpg!! good for that old girl) and wished I was in something quieter, faster and more econmical but loved it whilst sat for an hour in traffic each way being automatic.
Interestingly, if you do 10,000 miles in a year in one of two cars, one doing an average of 24 MPG and the other 28 MPG, the difference is only 59 gallons of petrol, which at £1.32 / litre is £357. So not much at all, in the grand scheme of choosing to run a BMW with a V8.
quavey said:
I was at a wedding at the weekend and didn't take the M5 as felt it was a waste of 600 miles round trip on it
If you're got odd negative emotions attached to using the M5, then all the logic in the world is unlikely to matter.If you really want to have a comfortable fast cruiser that's actually significantly cheaper on a long run than an M5, don't mess around with half-measures:
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/b...
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/b...
True the 635d is something I had considered but its a bit beyond what I want to spend plus you've got the disadvantage of owning a diesel. When you factor in the extra cost per litre the cost per mile is not so much different. Plus I detest the smell of diesel and spend all week pouring into the van, I think Im the only person in the world that uses the little gloves.
As for MPG expectations I'm expecting the 650i will do 30 on a gentle cruise on regular fuel rather than 25/26 which is what the M5 will manage on premium fuel.
I think there is something nagging at me as well saying the m5 has done 126k now and is doing 3000 miles through europe going to do it any good - plus beyond that sort of mileage the residuals surely have to drop hugely.
As for MPG expectations I'm expecting the 650i will do 30 on a gentle cruise on regular fuel rather than 25/26 which is what the M5 will manage on premium fuel.
I think there is something nagging at me as well saying the m5 has done 126k now and is doing 3000 miles through europe going to do it any good - plus beyond that sort of mileage the residuals surely have to drop hugely.
quavey said:
I think there is something nagging at me as well saying the m5 has done 126k now and is doing 3000 miles through europe going to do it any good - plus beyond that sort of mileage the residuals surely have to drop hugely.
Doing 3000 miles in the 650i will make the residuals drop more than if you did those in your E39 M5.Sounds to me like you've already made up your mind and finding points to justify your purchase, but that's not too much of a bad thing in this case
Before you do, I would implore you to check out the E60/63 M5/6... yes the gearbox is a bit clunky, it's more expensive to maintain and drinks petrol when you put your foot down but who can put a price on the smile on your face when you take it to the Alpines passes?? They do 25-27mpg on a run and at 5-6k miles a year the difference in fuel costs is not really that much.
mft said:
quavey said:
I was at a wedding at the weekend and didn't take the M5 as felt it was a waste of 600 miles round trip on it
If you're got odd negative emotions attached to using the M5, then all the logic in the world is unlikely to matter.Good luck with the new purchase Quavey, when your heart isnt in it, your heart isnt in it!
Yeah I think that is half the problem my heart just isn't in it anymore. I've been discussing it with my self all day and I think I'm going to treat my self to the 650i if we can come to a deal on Friday.
I've just spent the last hour polishing the old girl as a good bye (also to help trade in argument!)
I've just spent the last hour polishing the old girl as a good bye (also to help trade in argument!)
The M5 is an icon, it is something that is now moving into classic status and if well cared for will get more and more sought after and valuable.
The 650i is a nice cruiser, but is just another BMW coupe that has lots of depreciating to do. I'm sure it will be very nice, but it will never feel special like and M does.
Have you considered an Alpina?
I nice B5 might tick the boxes a bit more.
But I like the 645/650i more now than I did when they came out.
And I must admit that they do appeal now more than ever too.
The 650i is a nice cruiser, but is just another BMW coupe that has lots of depreciating to do. I'm sure it will be very nice, but it will never feel special like and M does.
Have you considered an Alpina?
I nice B5 might tick the boxes a bit more.
But I like the 645/650i more now than I did when they came out.
And I must admit that they do appeal now more than ever too.
I will update this now.
As it turns out the comedy genius' at rix who had original offered to take the M5 and had the first 650i I looked at decided to put the price up of their car by £1000 because they had fitted new (mismatched!!) tyres and then decided they didn't want my M5 because "the wheels could do with a refurb..." its 12 years old!! But anyway....
So the story continued, I listed the M5 on autotrader and had a couple of calls and ended up swapping it for a CLK350 convertible which was OK... however a bit gutless and I'm really not a fan of mercedes. However it turns out that my own mother was actually looking for a black mercedes convertible... You can see where I'm going with this. I owned it for a total of 8 days before it went to mum.
This left me as a cash buyer to find a nice 650i and as I had already found a suitable one for a private sale I bought a low milage 650i the very next day. This all happened about 5/6 weeks ago and we have since been to Bruges, Interlaken, Lucern, Zurich, Como and Brussels on our euro trip holiday and what a car. We averaged 32mpg over the whole trip and 12 hour drives were completed with no drama. So pleased, I'll probably get flamed for this but its more comfortable, as fast and sounds better than the M5!
As it turns out the comedy genius' at rix who had original offered to take the M5 and had the first 650i I looked at decided to put the price up of their car by £1000 because they had fitted new (mismatched!!) tyres and then decided they didn't want my M5 because "the wheels could do with a refurb..." its 12 years old!! But anyway....
So the story continued, I listed the M5 on autotrader and had a couple of calls and ended up swapping it for a CLK350 convertible which was OK... however a bit gutless and I'm really not a fan of mercedes. However it turns out that my own mother was actually looking for a black mercedes convertible... You can see where I'm going with this. I owned it for a total of 8 days before it went to mum.
This left me as a cash buyer to find a nice 650i and as I had already found a suitable one for a private sale I bought a low milage 650i the very next day. This all happened about 5/6 weeks ago and we have since been to Bruges, Interlaken, Lucern, Zurich, Como and Brussels on our euro trip holiday and what a car. We averaged 32mpg over the whole trip and 12 hour drives were completed with no drama. So pleased, I'll probably get flamed for this but its more comfortable, as fast and sounds better than the M5!
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