BMW M6 V10 - more problems!
Discussion
longfellow said:
Hopefully once they've sorted the clutch issue you can start enjoying the car a little more.
Keep us posted and good luck.
Thank you. I certainly intend to.Keep us posted and good luck.
Hopefully, people will learn a LOT from reading my posts re ownership. Even buying AUC doesn't neccesarily mean you're buying something fault free. However, the warranty is the saving grace and can save you thousands in labour and part fees.
Schermerhorn said:
It has been back 5 times but the issues really have been the VANOS (visit 2 and 3) and the transmissiom issue (visit 4)
Visit 2 and 4 they just cleared faults rather than fixing hardware.
Visit 5 I am hoping for hardware replacement and rectification rather than fault clearing on a computer.
They are a good garage though and service has been very good everytime. Unfortunately my car was not prepped properly and they wanted to hit their monthly sales target and get the sale (imo).
I just hope for your sake, they are not resetting things till the warrantee expires.Visit 2 and 4 they just cleared faults rather than fixing hardware.
Visit 5 I am hoping for hardware replacement and rectification rather than fault clearing on a computer.
They are a good garage though and service has been very good everytime. Unfortunately my car was not prepped properly and they wanted to hit their monthly sales target and get the sale (imo).
Edited by Schermerhorn on Thursday 14th August 19:37
JMBMWM5 said:
Schermerhorn said:
It has been back 5 times but the issues really have been the VANOS (visit 2 and 3) and the transmissiom issue (visit 4)
Visit 2 and 4 they just cleared faults rather than fixing hardware.
Visit 5 I am hoping for hardware replacement and rectification rather than fault clearing on a computer.
They are a good garage though and service has been very good everytime. Unfortunately my car was not prepped properly and they wanted to hit their monthly sales target and get the sale (imo).
I just hope for your sake, they are not resetting things till the warrantee expires.Visit 2 and 4 they just cleared faults rather than fixing hardware.
Visit 5 I am hoping for hardware replacement and rectification rather than fault clearing on a computer.
They are a good garage though and service has been very good everytime. Unfortunately my car was not prepped properly and they wanted to hit their monthly sales target and get the sale (imo).
Edited by Schermerhorn on Thursday 14th August 19:37
I recall you had a lot of similar frustrations with your F10 M5 before they were forced into exchanging it.
Schermerhorn said:
This was my initial fear too. However, they have 3 attempts to fix the problem and then I have enough of a case to reject the car and get all my money back. It did cross my mind early into ownership but I don't they can take a hit like that regardless of how big they are. It also renders the warranty useless and people would pick up on it.
I recall you had a lot of similar frustrations with your F10 M5 before they were forced into exchanging it.
No not me but a mate on here. I had trouble with the F31 3.0M Sport.I recall you had a lot of similar frustrations with your F10 M5 before they were forced into exchanging it.
I have the M6 GC with CP on order for October, it should be great, we hope.
Better than my LCI M5.
crazy about cars said:
…….I've read there's an updated release bearing too…..
It is indeed updated.One other very important thing to do is make absolutely sure they do NOT, repeat DO NOT grease the release bearing.
I can't find the post but there's an extremely knowledgable American guy, who has a deep technical knowledge of these issues, and he was commenting on how many dealerships are not following the updated fitting instructions.
Greasing/lubricating this bearing creates big issues as it picks up dust from worn clutch lining and tis in turn acts like a massive abrasive to destroy the bearing.
Slippydiff said:
IIRC clutch and flywheel replacement is not £5k, more like £2.5-3k max.
There's a modified release bearing and guide tube (early versions weren't lubricated properly and picked up causing judder on release and premature wear).
The general consensus was that if the release bearing was at fault, the clutch got replaced under warranty. if the clutch was worn due to normal wear and tear (or use of the launch control) the customer foots the bill.
I'm struggling to see how one dealer establishes whether another has prepared a car to the proper AUC standard ?
Furthermore, to the best of my (limited) knowledge there's no facility for measuring clutch wear on these cars with the gearbox in situ.
Whatever happens, I hope your issues get sorted and it doesn't cost you anything.
I hope so too.There's a modified release bearing and guide tube (early versions weren't lubricated properly and picked up causing judder on release and premature wear).
The general consensus was that if the release bearing was at fault, the clutch got replaced under warranty. if the clutch was worn due to normal wear and tear (or use of the launch control) the customer foots the bill.
I'm struggling to see how one dealer establishes whether another has prepared a car to the proper AUC standard ?
Furthermore, to the best of my (limited) knowledge there's no facility for measuring clutch wear on these cars with the gearbox in situ.
Whatever happens, I hope your issues get sorted and it doesn't cost you anything.
The problems have been persistent (not just transmission but others too) from immediate ownership.
Just waiting on Leicester's reply on Tuesday. I have no intention of paying anything. I should not have to. The car has not been abused by me so they have no cop out clause.
To do less than 2500 miles and go to a garage 5 times to sort issues that should never have been there is comical.
Schermerhorn said:
Requires flywheel and major software modification from what I can recall.
The M3 DCT, 6 speed, and M5 SMG and 6 speed are all interchangeable from a bolt-up standpoint. Software update to DME is needed for SMG -> 6 speed conversion along with wiring harness change and longitudinal sensor addition (resides inside the SMG module for SMG car). Not impossible, but not worth it IMO. A couple of M5s in the US have been found with M3 6 speed transmissions in them (there's an additional oil pump on the M3 version), working just fine.DCT on the E60 however is an undertaking. The DME requires a flash which was never released by BMW other than the 1 or 2 they built. One of the members on M5Board (ACG if I recall) contacted BMW AG about the possibilty and although he wasn't turned away, it wasn't economically feasable.
As for your car, how are they wandering down the clutch/flyhweel path? What error codes were stored in the SMG and other modules.
Seems odd to have a PDC failure concurrent with the SMG module errors unless system voltage is a factor. I would recommend having the battery load tested and the alternator as well. The E60 was the first platform to incorporate so many microcontroller modules and IMO, they could have coded the low voltage error handling to be a a bit more....graceful.
If you have a 9D12 error (alarm internal battery), it's almost a guarantee there's a battery voltage issue, but a spate of random errors are usually present when the alternator regulator starts to go or the battery is getting on in age.
jcolley said:
Schermerhorn said:
Requires flywheel and major software modification from what I can recall.
The M3 DCT, 6 speed, and M5 SMG and 6 speed are all interchangeable from a bolt-up standpoint. Software update to DME is needed for SMG -> 6 speed conversion along with wiring harness change and longitudinal sensor addition (resides inside the SMG module for SMG car). Not impossible, but not worth it IMO. A couple of M5s in the US have been found with M3 6 speed transmissions in them (there's an additional oil pump on the M3 version), working just fine.DCT on the E60 however is an undertaking. The DME requires a flash which was never released by BMW other than the 1 or 2 they built. One of the members on M5Board (ACG if I recall) contacted BMW AG about the possibilty and although he wasn't turned away, it wasn't economically feasable.
As for your car, how are they wandering down the clutch/flyhweel path? What error codes were stored in the SMG and other modules.
Seems odd to have a PDC failure concurrent with the SMG module errors unless system voltage is a factor. I would recommend having the battery load tested and the alternator as well. The E60 was the first platform to incorporate so many microcontroller modules and IMO, they could have coded the low voltage error handling to be a a bit more....graceful.
If you have a 9D12 error (alarm internal battery), it's almost a guarantee there's a battery voltage issue, but a spate of random errors are usually present when the alternator regulator starts to go or the battery is getting on in age.
Another update.
BMW Sandal have told me that once they take the flywheel apart from the clutch, it cannot be re-alligned and a new clutch and flywheel have to be used. The cost of just this taking apart the mechanicals has been the source of contention between Sandan and Synter and hence the delay. Sytner have agreed to the costs today after much much pushing from me, meaning I don't have to pay anything.
If however, they do not find anything wrong with said clutch and flywheel, it cannot be put back together and I will need a new clutch and flywheel meaning £££££. This strikes me as odd, and a cop out clause. They have had the car for 15 days and have highlighted the clutch and gearbox through their own investigation work (15 days man!!!!) and are still unsure if this is the culprit. Wierd.
Now, my argument is this, the car has had repeated Transmission warning errors, I have done minimal mileage on the car, never used launch control and the car has been in and out of Sandal in my 9 months of ownership. Put simply, it has been a lemon and I attribute this down to poor mechanical preparation from supply dealer. Surely, this strengthens my case with BMW Warranty?
I will await the verdict tomorrow. Wish me well guys.
Any advice etc would be welcome.
BMW Sandal have told me that once they take the flywheel apart from the clutch, it cannot be re-alligned and a new clutch and flywheel have to be used. The cost of just this taking apart the mechanicals has been the source of contention between Sandan and Synter and hence the delay. Sytner have agreed to the costs today after much much pushing from me, meaning I don't have to pay anything.
If however, they do not find anything wrong with said clutch and flywheel, it cannot be put back together and I will need a new clutch and flywheel meaning £££££. This strikes me as odd, and a cop out clause. They have had the car for 15 days and have highlighted the clutch and gearbox through their own investigation work (15 days man!!!!) and are still unsure if this is the culprit. Wierd.
Now, my argument is this, the car has had repeated Transmission warning errors, I have done minimal mileage on the car, never used launch control and the car has been in and out of Sandal in my 9 months of ownership. Put simply, it has been a lemon and I attribute this down to poor mechanical preparation from supply dealer. Surely, this strengthens my case with BMW Warranty?
I will await the verdict tomorrow. Wish me well guys.
Any advice etc would be welcome.
Schermerhorn said:
Another update.
BMW Sandal have told me that once they take the flywheel apart from the clutch, it cannot be re-alligned and a new clutch and flywheel have to be used. The cost of just this taking apart the mechanicals has been the source of contention between Sandan and Synter and hence the delay. Sytner have agreed to the costs today after much much pushing from me, meaning I don't have to pay anything.
If however, they do not find anything wrong with said clutch and flywheel, it cannot be put back together and I will need a new clutch and flywheel meaning £££££. This strikes me as odd, and a cop out clause. They have had the car for 15 days and have highlighted the clutch and gearbox through their own investigation work (15 days man!!!!) and are still unsure if this is the culprit. Wierd.
Now, my argument is this, the car has had repeated Transmission warning errors, I have done minimal mileage on the car, never used launch control and the car has been in and out of Sandal in my 9 months of ownership. Put simply, it has been a lemon and I attribute this down to poor mechanical preparation from supply dealer. Surely, this strengthens my case with BMW Warranty?
I will await the verdict tomorrow. Wish me well guys.
Any advice etc would be welcome.
Explain your problems here : http://f10.m5post.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=43...BMW Sandal have told me that once they take the flywheel apart from the clutch, it cannot be re-alligned and a new clutch and flywheel have to be used. The cost of just this taking apart the mechanicals has been the source of contention between Sandan and Synter and hence the delay. Sytner have agreed to the costs today after much much pushing from me, meaning I don't have to pay anything.
If however, they do not find anything wrong with said clutch and flywheel, it cannot be put back together and I will need a new clutch and flywheel meaning £££££. This strikes me as odd, and a cop out clause. They have had the car for 15 days and have highlighted the clutch and gearbox through their own investigation work (15 days man!!!!) and are still unsure if this is the culprit. Wierd.
Now, my argument is this, the car has had repeated Transmission warning errors, I have done minimal mileage on the car, never used launch control and the car has been in and out of Sandal in my 9 months of ownership. Put simply, it has been a lemon and I attribute this down to poor mechanical preparation from supply dealer. Surely, this strengthens my case with BMW Warranty?
I will await the verdict tomorrow. Wish me well guys.
Any advice etc would be welcome.
You will get the right answers, as for not being able to re-assemble /aline a clutch and flywheel, that to me is a total load of b
ks.Schermerhorn said:
Another update.
BMW Sandal have told me that once they take the flywheel apart from the clutch, it cannot be re-alligned and a new clutch and flywheel have to be used. The cost of just this taking apart the mechanicals has been the source of contention between Sandan and Synter and hence the delay. Sytner have agreed to the costs today after much much pushing from me, meaning I don't have to pay anything.
If however, they do not find anything wrong with said clutch and flywheel, it cannot be put back together and I will need a new clutch and flywheel meaning £££££. This strikes me as odd, and a cop out clause. They have had the car for 15 days and have highlighted the clutch and gearbox through their own investigation work (15 days man!!!!) and are still unsure if this is the culprit. Wierd.
Now, my argument is this, the car has had repeated Transmission warning errors, I have done minimal mileage on the car, never used launch control and the car has been in and out of Sandal in my 9 months of ownership. Put simply, it has been a lemon and I attribute this down to poor mechanical preparation from supply dealer. Surely, this strengthens my case with BMW Warranty?
I will await the verdict tomorrow. Wish me well guys.
Any advice etc would be welcome.
Wow, what an absolute saga.BMW Sandal have told me that once they take the flywheel apart from the clutch, it cannot be re-alligned and a new clutch and flywheel have to be used. The cost of just this taking apart the mechanicals has been the source of contention between Sandan and Synter and hence the delay. Sytner have agreed to the costs today after much much pushing from me, meaning I don't have to pay anything.
If however, they do not find anything wrong with said clutch and flywheel, it cannot be put back together and I will need a new clutch and flywheel meaning £££££. This strikes me as odd, and a cop out clause. They have had the car for 15 days and have highlighted the clutch and gearbox through their own investigation work (15 days man!!!!) and are still unsure if this is the culprit. Wierd.
Now, my argument is this, the car has had repeated Transmission warning errors, I have done minimal mileage on the car, never used launch control and the car has been in and out of Sandal in my 9 months of ownership. Put simply, it has been a lemon and I attribute this down to poor mechanical preparation from supply dealer. Surely, this strengthens my case with BMW Warranty?
I will await the verdict tomorrow. Wish me well guys.
Any advice etc would be welcome.
I'm assuming that you've been dealing with the dealership managers directly, so would therefore escalate the issue to BMW UK.
I would compose an email illustrating a timeline of events since picking the car up so they can see exactly what you've put up with.
BMW should also have a log of when you've been to different garages which will back up your case.
As for re-aligning the clutch and flywheel, I would say that is complete nonsense as I'm pretty sure you can just draw a mark before removing the parts and then reassemble using the markers as a guide, the same way you would when removing a steering wheel.
I feel for you mate and I really hope they sort it out soon.
Have you raised these issues on any of the BM forums?
Schermerhorn said:
Another update.
BMW Sandal have told me that once they take the flywheel apart from the clutch, it cannot be re-alligned and a new clutch and flywheel have to be used.
This is false. The clutch/pressure plate assembly consists of 4 pieces which can be separated from one another (like layers on a cake) but they must be re-assembled in the same rotational orientation and then a special BMW tool is used (part number 83 30 0 495 136) to hold them together when the assembly is reinstalled. (A new clutch/pressure plate assembly is held together with cable ties until after it's installed.) It sounds like they either don't know the M5/M6 clutch very well (hard to believe given that the first cars are now almost 10 years old) or they're using one of these on you: http://engineerofknowledge.wordpress.com/2012/04/0...BMW Sandal have told me that once they take the flywheel apart from the clutch, it cannot be re-alligned and a new clutch and flywheel have to be used.
AW10 said:
Schermerhorn said:
Another update.
BMW Sandal have told me that once they take the flywheel apart from the clutch, it cannot be re-alligned and a new clutch and flywheel have to be used.
This is false. The clutch/pressure plate assembly consists of 4 pieces which can be separated from one another (like layers on a cake) but they must be re-assembled in the same rotational orientation and then a special BMW tool is used (part number 83 30 0 495 136) to hold them together when the assembly is reinstalled. (A new clutch/pressure plate assembly is held together with cable ties until after it's installed.) It sounds like they either don't know the M5/M6 clutch very well (hard to believe given that the first cars are now almost 10 years old) or they're using one of these on you: http://engineerofknowledge.wordpress.com/2012/04/0...BMW Sandal have told me that once they take the flywheel apart from the clutch, it cannot be re-alligned and a new clutch and flywheel have to be used.
Probably more than you ever want to know about installing/removing the clutch - http://pmmonline.co.uk/technical/clutch-removalrep...
AW10 said:
Probably more than you ever want to know about installing/removing the clutch - http://pmmonline.co.uk/technical/clutch-removalrep...
Wow...looks more complicated than I thought! No wonder i've been told xyz by BMW! Or maybe the job scares them?Gassing Station | M Power | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff