E39 or E60 M5; which is more iconic?

E39 or E60 M5; which is more iconic?

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Discussion

TheAngryDog

Original Poster:

12,394 posts

208 months

Thursday 28th August 2014
quotequote all
I'm discounting the F10 as it doesn't have the same appeal to me.

Out of the E39 and the E60, which is the more iconic M5? Which car in 5 years time will be the one held in higher regard?

I think it will be the E39. The E60 is too complicated and expensive when it goes wrong. But it does have the 507bhp V10 which I am certain when on song is a peach (ive never been in or driven one).

So what say you?

Edited by TheAngryDog on Thursday 28th August 16:10


Edited by TheAngryDog on Friday 29th August 08:35

nick1275

1,272 posts

169 months

Thursday 28th August 2014
quotequote all
IMHO it's a difficult one, e39 is the last m5 with a manual but like you say the e60/61 has that engine.

Schermerhorn

4,342 posts

188 months

Thursday 28th August 2014
quotequote all
E60 M5.

That engine and its "F1" links (however tenuous they may be).

Shaoxter

4,048 posts

123 months

Thursday 28th August 2014
quotequote all
TheAngryDog said:
The E60 is too complicated and expensive when it goes wrong. But it does have the 507bhp V10 which I am certain when on song is a peach (ive never been in or driven one).
Since when has being expensive to maintain been a factor in the legendary status of a car? Look at Ferraris... their F1 clutches last about 25% of an E60 M5's clutch.

A high revving V10 has got to win out, and btw it is also a manual wink (albeit with an automated clutch).

Cambell

324 posts

246 months

Thursday 28th August 2014
quotequote all
Both fantastic cars but very different.

For Icon status, I have to say the E60 will be more Iconic as the last of the normally aspirated big engine M cars.

Leins

9,418 posts

147 months

Thursday 28th August 2014
quotequote all
The thing I love about older M5s is the way they "shrink" around you. Yes, they can be practical, are handy for picking up visitors from the airport and taking the family on hols, or can storm it down the motorway leaving Porsches in their wake. But for me an M5 should really come alive on the more sweeping A-roads, and almost morph into a sportscar, completely ignoring their humdrum bodystyle. Can the E60s do that? Not driven one, so I don't really know

Every M5 has had a stunning engine, not just for their time but even when viewed nowadays IMO, but they have to be more than just the motor. Until someone tells me different, my suspicion (based on practically no experience of the E60 wink) is that the E39 is more of an M5, and the one therefore more deserving of iconic status. Very willing to hear the counter-argument though

Although they're all rubbish compared to the E28 of course! smile

RichardM5

1,733 posts

135 months

Thursday 28th August 2014
quotequote all
I think, just, the E39.

The E60 has 'that' engine, but it also has 'those' Bangle looks and 'that' gearbox.

The trouble with the E60 M5 IMO, and yes I have driven several, is that it's fantastic 5% of the time, great 50% of the time and a pain in the arse 45% of the time (around town and visiting petrol stations due to the combination of a V10 a 70L tank).

The E39 is just great all the time, never really fantastic, but never crap either.

Mermaid

21,492 posts

170 months

Thursday 28th August 2014
quotequote all
RichardM5 said:
I think, just, the E39.

The E60 has 'that' engine, but it also has 'those' Bangle looks and 'that' gearbox.

The trouble with the E60 M5 IMO, and yes I have driven several, is that it's fantastic 5% of the time, great 50% of the time and a pain in the arse 45% of the time (around town and visiting petrol stations due to the combination of a V10 a 70L tank).

The E39 is just great all the time, never really fantastic, but never crap either.
I'll go with that assessment, and it is a decent engine + very well built.

Khaki Suit

500 posts

163 months

Thursday 28th August 2014
quotequote all
Looks wise the E39. Shaped like the old sharknose cars it harks back to more retro vibe.

Icon wise, in the longer term, I think the E60 will win. Just thinking about other iconic cars, reliability doesn't even come into consideration. It's about cars that push boundaries and that V10 engine makes it a very memorable car.

m5touringv10

72 posts

118 months

Thursday 28th August 2014
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I have the best of both worlds as I have the E39 M5 as well as the E61 M5.
I like to think to I have the the best saloon and best estate BMW has made!
The E39 is the consummate all rounder and has no real flaws.
The E60/61 is how many geniuses tend to be, flawed but brilliant and that engine is a monster!

Edited by m5touringv10 on Thursday 28th August 20:31

Fezzaman

552 posts

192 months

Thursday 28th August 2014
quotequote all
Depends on your definition of 'THE' M5. Yes reliability/maintenance issues aren't a factor for iconic status in the generic sense, but they are a factor in context. If there had been an equivalent successor of the Z8 with the V10 from the E60 and I had to say which was more iconic between the E39 lump powered Z8 and a hypothetical V10 powered successor, I would say the V10, as it comes with the territory of a compromised impractical 2 seater roadster. But here we are comparing 2 saloons, designed to be excellent family cars - which does require reliability, usable fuel range for bahn-storming, practicality etc etc. And on that front the E39 wins as it fits the "M5" brief better imo.

GreatPretender

26,140 posts

213 months

Thursday 28th August 2014
quotequote all
TheAngryDog said:
I'm discounting the F10 as it doesn't have the same appeal to me.

Out of the E39 and the E60, which is the more iconic M5? Which car in 5 years time will be the one held in higher regard?

I think it will be the E39. The E60 is too complicated and expensive when it goes wrong. But it does have the 507bhp V10 which I am certain when on song is a peach (ive never been in or driven one).

So what say you?

Edited by TheAngryDog on Thursday 28th August 16:10
Neither. The E34 was the last proper M5.

The E39 was and still is one of the best saloon cars ever made, but the motorsport element was missing (and actually no worse for it). The E60 was a technological showcase and flawed because of it. The F10... Don't get me started.

All M5s have been monstrous in one way or another, but it's only the E28 and E34 which remain true to the '///M' ethos.

TheAngryDog

Original Poster:

12,394 posts

208 months

Friday 29th August 2014
quotequote all
Well yes of course the E28 and E34 are going to be more iconic, thats a given, but that wasn't the subject of this thread wink. Hand built, the E28 being the original, the E34 carrying on the spirit. Yes the E39 is quite far removed from the E34, but the E60 is even further, but I digress as this isn't the topic at hand, as the E28 and E34 are always going to more iconic. But the E39 and E60/E61 are different because they're not hand built, have V8 and V10 engines and moved away from the Straight 6 that occupied the previous ones.


Mermaid

21,492 posts

170 months

Friday 29th August 2014
quotequote all
TheAngryDog said:
Well yes of course the E28 and E34 are going to be more iconic, thats a given, but that wasn't the subject of this thread wink. Hand built, the E28 being the original, the E34 carrying on the spirit. Yes the E39 is quite far removed from the E34, but the E60 is even further, but I digress as this isn't the topic at hand, as the E28 and E34 are always going to more iconic. But the E39 and E60/E61 are different because they're not hand built, have V8 and V10 engines and moved away from the Straight 6 that occupied the previous ones.
The "investment" market has so far preferred the E28 - 1st & the oldest. E34 is a relative bargain as a classic.

Will te E39/E60 attain classic status - ultimately, but doubt the cars will ever be anywhere near price when new.


Leins

9,418 posts

147 months

Friday 29th August 2014
quotequote all
Mermaid said:
The "investment" market has so far preferred the E28 - 1st & the oldest. E34 is a relative bargain as a classic

Will te E39/E60 attain classic status - ultimately, but doubt the cars will ever be anywhere near price when new.
And the E34 is fast disappearing as a result, these things seem to be getting broken at an alarming rate. I've maintained for a long time that values between the E28 and E34 are too far out of whack. Yes the E28 is rare, but the E34 isn't exactly numerous in the grand scheme of things. One of the reasons I bought one, and don't think I'm in any rush to sell soon

isaldiri

18,412 posts

167 months

Friday 29th August 2014
quotequote all
The E60 in time to come probably will be viewed as the more iconic car precisely because of it's (awful) Bangled looks and it was in the first wave of the mangled bangled BMWs. And to be fair, it had a very special engine and looks like it'll be the last NA M5.

The E39 though will always be the car I'd far rather have.

nonuts

15,855 posts

228 months

Friday 29th August 2014
quotequote all
I'm biased. But I say e39. And the reason is mainly that gearbox in the e60.

e39 will be the last simple, NA, Manual M car from what I can see.

Also mine still works at 184,000 miles and I'm not sure I'd want to be going anywhere near an e60 with anything like that mileage. I don't know anyone that's owned one that's not had regular warranty claims or attempted claims.

davewhitt

136 posts

141 months

Monday 1st September 2014
quotequote all
gearbox gearbox gearbox why do people have to say that, have you driven one no, have you taken the time to learn how to drive one no, manual or auto its a great box.

great car 5% of the time rubbish, great car all the time.

e39 or e60/61 who cares. ones a torque laden v8 ones a high reving v10 you pays your money and take your choice.

joscal

2,072 posts

199 months

Monday 1st September 2014
quotequote all
davewhitt said:
gearbox gearbox gearbox why do people have to say that, have you driven one no, have you taken the time to learn how to drive one no, manual or auto its a great box.

great car 5% of the time rubbish, great car all the time.

e39 or e60/61 who cares. ones a torque laden v8 ones a high reving v10 you pays your money and take your choice.
I'm with this man. e60 is leaps and bounds better. Please find me a saloon that can easily break 200mph.


Cambell

324 posts

246 months

Monday 1st September 2014
quotequote all
joscal said:
davewhitt said:
gearbox gearbox gearbox why do people have to say that, have you driven one no, have you taken the time to learn how to drive one no, manual or auto its a great box.

great car 5% of the time rubbish, great car all the time.

e39 or e60/61 who cares. ones a torque laden v8 ones a high reving v10 you pays your money and take your choice.
I'm with this man. e60 is leaps and bounds better. Please find me a saloon that can easily break 200mph.
I kinda see where these guys are coming from. I have driven my E60 M5 for 2.5 years and will admit that the gearbox took a bit of getting used to (couple of weeks if I'm honest) but now I love it and absolutely prefer it to the DTC (yes I've driven a few).

GreatPretender said:
Neither. The E34 was the last proper M5.

The E39 was and still is one of the best saloon cars ever made, but the motorsport element was missing (and actually no worse for it). The E60 was a technological showcase and flawed because of it. The F10... Don't get me started.

All M5s have been monstrous in one way or another, but it's only the E28 and E34 which remain true to the '///M' ethos.


Clearly didn't read the thread title, interesting rant though !

isaldiri said:
The E60 in time to come probably will be viewed as the more iconic car precisely because of it's (awful) Bangled looks and it was in the first wave of the mangled bangled BMWs. And to be fair, it had a very special engine and looks like it'll be the last NA M5.

The E39 though will always be the car I'd far rather have.
I'm guessing E60 design is not this chaps favorite, at least he kind of answered the question.