Discussion
4941cc said:
BMW AG build it and sell it to BMW GB at a particular price.
BMW GB sell it to the franchised dealership at MRRP less a fixed margin. Some of this is given immediately, the rest earned back later through achieving various manufacturer set objectives.
To aid the dealer network as a whole, BMW GB has a marketing budget - a big pot of money to be used to influence both potential customers through nationally advertised offers: things like low APR finance campaigns, deposit contributions, support payments.
The dealership sales management compiles all the available support and works out what margin they will achieve and that informs their customer offer on an individual case by case basis as no two are usually the same.
Currency fluctuations, if significant enough will result in a general price increase/decrese issued by the manufacturer.
Another interesting and informative post, thanks.BMW GB sell it to the franchised dealership at MRRP less a fixed margin. Some of this is given immediately, the rest earned back later through achieving various manufacturer set objectives.
To aid the dealer network as a whole, BMW GB has a marketing budget - a big pot of money to be used to influence both potential customers through nationally advertised offers: things like low APR finance campaigns, deposit contributions, support payments.
The dealership sales management compiles all the available support and works out what margin they will achieve and that informs their customer offer on an individual case by case basis as no two are usually the same.
Currency fluctuations, if significant enough will result in a general price increase/decrese issued by the manufacturer.
spunko2010 said:
I can't quite figure out quoting on this website but to respond to your points:
1) I never buy cars cash now, I always opt for PCP on a 0% deal where possible, but not everyone does. If I was buying an M6 in cash I'd be pushing for the previous price on Broadspeed (or waiting until it's available again).
2) The ridiculous amount of "contribution" on the M6 that has always been offered implies they cannot sell at their original price point, and are therefore overpriced. We can argue about economies of scale or production costs until the cows come home (and getting any figures or numbers is next to impossible). But I can't see any benefit to having a list price of £95k - then instantly offering £20k off that, without even asking. Perhaps that's why I don't work in marketing.. it makes sense (from a business point of view) to arrive at the right pricepoint from the outset, though. That is why companies spend lots of money on market research to gauge the correct retail price; I suspect BMW are no different. So where did they pluck that figure from?
If BMW had originally decided on a lower list yet still sensibly above the M5 list - say £80k - then it's safe to say they would have sold a few more. Not many more granted, but a few. They are never going to sell in any sort of volume but all this nonsense with overpricing, then offering "contributions" from head office stinks of nothing but marketing s
te to me.
How much discount is offered by say : Mercedes and Audi on high end cars?, NOT much.1) I never buy cars cash now, I always opt for PCP on a 0% deal where possible, but not everyone does. If I was buying an M6 in cash I'd be pushing for the previous price on Broadspeed (or waiting until it's available again).
2) The ridiculous amount of "contribution" on the M6 that has always been offered implies they cannot sell at their original price point, and are therefore overpriced. We can argue about economies of scale or production costs until the cows come home (and getting any figures or numbers is next to impossible). But I can't see any benefit to having a list price of £95k - then instantly offering £20k off that, without even asking. Perhaps that's why I don't work in marketing.. it makes sense (from a business point of view) to arrive at the right pricepoint from the outset, though. That is why companies spend lots of money on market research to gauge the correct retail price; I suspect BMW are no different. So where did they pluck that figure from?
If BMW had originally decided on a lower list yet still sensibly above the M5 list - say £80k - then it's safe to say they would have sold a few more. Not many more granted, but a few. They are never going to sell in any sort of volume but all this nonsense with overpricing, then offering "contributions" from head office stinks of nothing but marketing s
te to me. Edited by spunko2010 on Tuesday 30th December 23:46
At the moment an RS6 Avant has a contribution of £5600:00 total, thats crap and does not encourage sales at all, and the guys are moaning on RS246.com about delivery times being in the 6 month+ region in many cases.
Just how many AMG's and RS's are sold compared to BMW"M" cars I don't know, but RichardP on 6Post.com will know.
2 weeks ago I was offered 28k off list for an m6 coupe with 0 % finance.
I simply quoted the Peter vardy deal to my local dealer, who 20 minutes later called me back saying they would match it.
I told them that they needed to beat it to get my business and they immediately offered another 5k into the deal.
Good deals are out there, but you need to negotiate hard and buy with your head and not your heart!
I simply quoted the Peter vardy deal to my local dealer, who 20 minutes later called me back saying they would match it.
I told them that they needed to beat it to get my business and they immediately offered another 5k into the deal.
Good deals are out there, but you need to negotiate hard and buy with your head and not your heart!
t7mbo said:
2 weeks ago I was offered 28k off list for an m6 coupe with 0 % finance.
I simply quoted the Peter vardy deal to my local dealer, who 20 minutes later called me back saying they would match it.
I told them that they needed to beat it to get my business and they immediately offered another 5k into the deal.
Good deals are out there, but you need to negotiate hard and buy with your head and not your heart!
BUT did you buy it?.I simply quoted the Peter vardy deal to my local dealer, who 20 minutes later called me back saying they would match it.
I told them that they needed to beat it to get my business and they immediately offered another 5k into the deal.
Good deals are out there, but you need to negotiate hard and buy with your head and not your heart!
JMBMWM5 said:
At the moment an RS6 Avant has a contribution of £5600:00 total, thats crap and does not encourage sales at all, and the guys are moaning on RS246.com about delivery times being in the 6 month+ region in many cases.
Bear in mind these are low volume specialist models - they don't need or necessarily want to sell tens of thousands of them. Just as many as the factory can comfortably build, without leading to an unsold glut in airfields. They don't *need* to give them away...
6 month lead times aren't much to fuss about these days, on many mainstream vehicles, let alone niche models. Factory lead time for the Transits and Customs I sell are at 22-24 weeks from order for instance, Rangers are 35-56 weeks! (hence dealers forward order, hold physical unregistered new stock and sell from that first, to offer customers reduced lead times if they can be flexible on exact spec).
People here complain that "Ford must be mad to be losing sales on them" - they're not at all. They have sold every single one they can build, six months ahead of time. If some buyers who want one now can't wait and go and buy something else from another manufacturer, they've lost nothing, because they couldn't build it anyway. Production capacities quite often aren't infinite. It also means we don't discount them very much due to lack of manufacturer support available. Could well be similar for RS6.
It also helps keep residual values for the cars that do get built and into customers' hands relatively high, which keeps those customers going back to them and reinforces the brand value as justifying a premium, a bit of a wait and not much of a discount.
4941cc said:
Bear in mind these are low volume specialist models - they don't need or necessarily want to sell tens of thousands of them. Just as many as the factory can comfortably build, without leading to an unsold glut in airfields.
They don't *need* to give them away...
6 month lead times aren't much to fuss about these days, on many mainstream vehicles, let alone niche models. Factory lead time for the Transits and Customs I sell are at 22-24 weeks from order for instance, Rangers are 35-56 weeks! (hence dealers forward order, hold physical unregistered new stock and sell from that first, to offer customers reduced lead times if they can be flexible on exact spec).
People here complain that "Ford must be mad to be losing sales on them" - they're not at all. They have sold every single one they can build, six months ahead of time. If some buyers who want one now can't wait and go and buy something else from another manufacturer, they've lost nothing, because they couldn't build it anyway. Production capacities quite often aren't infinite. It also means we don't discount them very much due to lack of manufacturer support available. Could well be similar for RS6.
It also helps keep residual values for the cars that do get built and into customers' hands relatively high, which keeps those customers going back to them and reinforces the brand value as justifying a premium, a bit of a wait and not much of a discount.
BMW have been the ONLY car dealer that have "always" given me good forward valuations, this helps a lot IF cars are late ect, no other dealerships I have delt with do this.They don't *need* to give them away...
6 month lead times aren't much to fuss about these days, on many mainstream vehicles, let alone niche models. Factory lead time for the Transits and Customs I sell are at 22-24 weeks from order for instance, Rangers are 35-56 weeks! (hence dealers forward order, hold physical unregistered new stock and sell from that first, to offer customers reduced lead times if they can be flexible on exact spec).
People here complain that "Ford must be mad to be losing sales on them" - they're not at all. They have sold every single one they can build, six months ahead of time. If some buyers who want one now can't wait and go and buy something else from another manufacturer, they've lost nothing, because they couldn't build it anyway. Production capacities quite often aren't infinite. It also means we don't discount them very much due to lack of manufacturer support available. Could well be similar for RS6.
It also helps keep residual values for the cars that do get built and into customers' hands relatively high, which keeps those customers going back to them and reinforces the brand value as justifying a premium, a bit of a wait and not much of a discount.
Hence I have stuck with BMW for some years. The other problem with "changing Brand" is you usually get offered "bottom book" on your PX, this stinks to me.
EDIT: especially Porsche who I have found the pits on Px values.
t7mbo said:
2 weeks ago I was offered 28k off list for an m6 coupe with 0 % finance.
I simply quoted the Peter vardy deal to my local dealer, who 20 minutes later called me back saying they would match it.
I told them that they needed to beat it to get my business and they immediately offered another 5k into the deal.
Good deals are out there, but you need to negotiate hard and buy with your head and not your heart!
So you were offered total of £33k off list? And on 0%??? I can't find that deal on the Peter Vardy website, the best combined discount they appear to offer on the Coupe is £9k+£8.5=£17.5k discount: http://www.petervardybmw.co.uk/current-offers/new-... am I missing something? It sounds like they were combining the older deal with the newly offered 0% APR... I simply quoted the Peter vardy deal to my local dealer, who 20 minutes later called me back saying they would match it.
I told them that they needed to beat it to get my business and they immediately offered another 5k into the deal.
Good deals are out there, but you need to negotiate hard and buy with your head and not your heart!
I may just take another look at the M6 if those figures you gave are correct.
Edited by spunko2010 on Thursday 1st January 18:20
spunko2010 said:
t7mbo said:
2 weeks ago I was offered 28k off list for an m6 coupe with 0 % finance.
I simply quoted the Peter vardy deal to my local dealer, who 20 minutes later called me back saying they would match it.
I told them that they needed to beat it to get my business and they immediately offered another 5k into the deal.
Good deals are out there, but you need to negotiate hard and buy with your head and not your heart!
So you were offered total of £33k off list? And on 0%??? I can't find that deal on the Peter Vardy website, the best combined discount they appear to offer on the Coupe is £9k+£8.5=£17.5k discount: http://www.petervardybmw.co.uk/current-offers/new-... am I missing something? It sounds like they were combining the older deal with the newly offered 0% APR... I simply quoted the Peter vardy deal to my local dealer, who 20 minutes later called me back saying they would match it.
I told them that they needed to beat it to get my business and they immediately offered another 5k into the deal.
Good deals are out there, but you need to negotiate hard and buy with your head and not your heart!
I may just take another look at the M6 if those figures you gave are correct.
Edited by spunko2010 on Thursday 1st January 18:20
spunko2010 said:
So you were offered total of £33k off list? And on 0%??? I can't find that deal on the Peter Vardy website, the best combined discount they appear to offer on the Coupe is £9k+£8.5=£17.5k discount: http://www.petervardybmw.co.uk/current-offers/new-... am I missing something? It sounds like they were combining the older deal with the newly offered 0% APR...
I may just take another look at the M6 if those figures you gave are correct.
No, I miscalculated slightly!I may just take another look at the M6 if those figures you gave are correct.
Edited by spunko2010 on Thursday 1st January 18:20
The Vardy deal was a contribution of 17.5k.
I told the other dealer, and they beat it by 5k giving a contribution total of 22.5k.
I had to put in a deposit of 6k which bought the total deposit to 28.5k , with the balance at 0%.
I would add that the dealer in question also said they would give even more discount to get the deal.
Didn't proceed because the time wasn't quite right for me, but will be shopping around again towards the end of Feb
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