E63 M6 PLCD / Clutch Postion Sensor

[Nat_H]

Looks like my PLCD / Clutch postion sensor is on its way out.

Anyone had this replaced recently, and is it a simple part swap, or does the clutch need to have an adaption cycle run ?

Also, any idea on price ?

Thanks
Nat

[jcolley]

Not terribly difficult, but a bit time consuming. I think I paid around $300 here in the US.

- remove underbody panels
- remove rear suspension diagonal braces
- remove complete exhaust system
- TIS direct you to disconnect drive shaft at transmission, but these bolts can't be reused, so I found another way. Remove the drive shaft mid-brace to allow the drive shaft to sag in the middle.
- support transmission with a jack
- remove transmission rear supprt bracket
- pivot transmission down in the rear to gain access to PLCD.
- remove two PLCD bolts
- disconnect SMG harness from temp and pressure sensors and snip cable ties to release PLCD harness
- disconnect PLCD harness at plug to SMG harness
- reinstall is opposite.

First time swap for me took about 2.5 hours because I didn't want to believe all those things had to come out to get to it...they do.

Adaptation is a must as the new PLCD will have a slightly different characteristic curve than the old one.

What codes are you getting that lead you to the PLCD?

[Nat_H]

I'd need to check with my indie who got the fault codes, but I recall them saying there were 3, all relating the clutch position sensor.

I get the yellow cog after 30 miles of driving or so, but not on every trip. No slip on the clutch, and good changes irregardless of the revs, with a slight "clunk" present on 1st - 2nd, but again, not on each change.

My local indie does not have the software to do adaptation, but I have found another one who can.

The part is £318 + fitting.

Edit to add - Thanks for the reply, reading you other posts regarding the gearbox, you certainly know your stuff.

[jcolley]

Always happy to help. There's been a lot of myth and misunderstanding of this transmission over the years. It's time to take the guesswork out of the repairs.

Typically, a PLCD failure will yield a 510D and 510E code. One for the primary sensor and one for the redundant. These two codes indicate the PLCD isn't giving *any* signal at all and they typically fail very intermittently. I argued with mine for two months before I gave in, certain it wasn't the sensor, but a connector, a chafed wire, or something external. Finally, I replaced it and all was right with the world again. Broadoakboy here on PH had similar experience with his, but again, only a 510D and 510E are resultant of a failed PLCD.

If you can get the codes, I will cross reference them with the SMG programming in INPA and see exactly what signal fault causes it to be stored.

[Broadoakboy]

I had my PLCD replaced about 2 months ago, largely after advice from jcolley. SMG is always going to be a harsh gearbox but mine is running better than ever after the sensor change.

[Schermerhorn]

Am I correct in thinking that the clutch position sensor retrofit does not require the removal of the gearbox bell housing, clutch and flywheel, and that it's an external part located on the car?

If so, is there an OEM number on this? I can't seem to find one online.

Edited by Schermerhorn on Friday 5th September 13:14

[Nat_H]

I've bought 230 178 374 28, which was around £318.

It fits to the top of the gearbox, and i believe it can fitted without opening the gearbox.

[jcolley]

Correct, the trans housing does not have to be removed.

Per BMW's TIS, it does need to be pivoted down for easier access, but if you're really, really patient and have a flexible 18 inch extension for a 1/4" drive torx bit, you mat be able to get it without doing that.

It is located in a drywell on the slave cylinder on the left side of the transmission, above the hydraulic pump assembly.

The geniuses at Getrag however, did decide to put the retaining nuts for the slave cylinder inside the bell housing, so it does have to be dropped for a slave changeout. However, for the PLCD, it's not opening the transmission.

[jcolley]

Broadoakboy said:

I had my PLCD replaced about 2 months ago, largely after advice from jcolley. SMG is always going to be a harsh gearbox but mine is running better than ever after the sensor change.

Ben,

I've had numerous people tell me their harsh shifting was resolved by replacing the clutch control valve, piece 16 on this drawing:

http://realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=NB93&amp...

Piece 7 is the PLCD by the way.

[Broadoakboy]

jcolley said:

Ben,

I've had numerous people tell me their harsh shifting was resolved by replacing the clutch control valve, piece 16 on this drawing:

http://realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=NB93&amp...

Piece 7 is the PLCD by the way.

J

That's good to know, is replacing part 16 cheaper/easier than the PLCD? Could it be completed on a driveway?

[jcolley]

Broadoakboy said:

J

That's good to know, is replacing part 16 cheaper/easier than the PLCD? Could it be completed on a driveway?

It's an expensive little thing, I know that. Usually around $800-900 for a simple little cartridge valve.

It's physically below the PLCD and above the accumulator and motor, all 3 of which do not require dropping the transmission. Based on that, I would think it could be done without much trouble.

However, it does "break" into the hydraulic system, so bleeding would be required after at a minimum. It's at a high enough point in the system that it shouldn't break the prime on the pump, but will degfinitely introduce air into the system to bleed. There is a replacement procedure for it in TIS if you have access.

As to why it helps, I'm still not certain. I have a couple of "old" ones to experiment with and most of a functioning hydraulic unit, so I'm thinking about building a test bench for the various components to be controlled by a small microcontroller to run tests. It would be nice to identify failed components for certain vice wholesale replacements of transmissions and hydraulic units.

[Nat_H]

Just a quick update to say that I had the PLCD replaced, and its corrected all my errors (red and yellow cogs), jerky gear changes, and clunk from 1st to 2nd.

The sensor was £315, fitting and clutch adaption was around £200.

[Broadoakboy]

Great news, the difference is remakable isn't it!

[Schermerhorn]

Nat, which errors were you getting re the clutch problems?

Was it like this?



How was it diagnosed? What were the other symptoms?

I've been quoted £286 for the sensor from BMW

I may just get it changed along with the clutch and flywheel at some point. The warranty thing really is 50:50 and I don't want to pay nearly £3000 with parts and labour from BMW when it can be done for around £1500.00.

Edited by Schermerhorn on Wednesday 1st October 10:44

[Nat_H]

Schermerhorn said:

Nat, which errors were you getting re the clutch problems?

Was it like this?



How was it diagnosed? What were the other symptoms?

I've been quoted £286 for the sensor from BMW

I may just get it changed along with the clutch and flywheel at some point. The warranty thing really is 50:50 and I don't want to pay nearly £3000 with parts and labour from BMW when it can be done for around £1500.00.

Edited by Schermerhorn on Wednesday 1st October 10:44

First time it happened, I was around 30 miles from home, 40 mph in 4th, on flat ground, and the red cog popped up. I did not try to change gear at the time, or when the red cog was up.

It lasted for 4 - 5 mins, randomly flicking between red and yellow cogs.

Then is cleared itself, and car drove as good as normal on the rest of the trip and on the way home.

It happened again about 2 days later, again when the car/gearbox was warm. This time I had no choice but to change gear as I was in traffic. Gear change was slow, with no clutch finesse, and trying to pull away smoothly was near impossible, very jerky, and really scary as I thought I was about to kill my car. Again after 5 mins or so, and the random flicking between red and yellow cogs, it cleared.

From all this I assumed that it was not mechanical, having had a TVR, you get a feel for sensor vs mechanical issues.

I called a local Indie to me, MVT near Wareham, who agreed with my theory. Ordered the sensor from BMW, I paid £316, and then a couple hours of labour to lower the gearbox to replace the sensor.

It drives great now, and no signs of red/yellow cogs. (touch wood)

[jcolley]

Schermerhorn said:

Nat, which errors were you getting re the clutch problems?

Was it like this?



How was it diagnosed? What were the other symptoms?

I've been quoted £286 for the sensor from BMW

I may just get it changed along with the clutch and flywheel at some point. The warranty thing really is 50:50 and I don't want to pay nearly £3000 with parts and labour from BMW when it can be done for around £1500.00.

Edited by Schermerhorn on Wednesday 1st October 10:44

They key to identifying a PLCD failure is in the stored error codes in the SMG. a 510D and 510E indicate a loss of signal completely from the primary (510D) and redundant (510E) PLCD sensors.

There are many difference codes the SMG can store and IMO, none are as certain as those two. Many other errors lead to testing 4 or 5 different theories. 510D and 510E are pretty much sure things.

[Schermerhorn]

jcolley said:

Schermerhorn said:

Nat, which errors were you getting re the clutch problems?

Was it like this?



How was it diagnosed? What were the other symptoms?

I've been quoted £286 for the sensor from BMW

I may just get it changed along with the clutch and flywheel at some point. The warranty thing really is 50:50 and I don't want to pay nearly £3000 with parts and labour from BMW when it can be done for around £1500.00.

Edited by Schermerhorn on Wednesday 1st October 10:44

They key to identifying a PLCD failure is in the stored error codes in the SMG. a 510D and 510E indicate a loss of signal completely from the primary (510D) and redundant (510E) PLCD sensors.

There are many difference codes the SMG can store and IMO, none are as certain as those two. Many other errors lead to testing 4 or 5 different theories. 510D and 510E are pretty much sure things.

Hi Jim

Thanks again for the great info. Unfortunately, the dealer is not very helpful on this matter and won't divulge the codes now or even back when it was in. "Company policy" corporate BS and all that.

Best thing really is just pay for a new clutch, flywheel, position sensor and get it all done at a BMW specialist all at the same time to reduce parts and labour cost.

[m51991]

Nat H,

Can you recommend what garage did you use to replace the clutch position sensor. it has thrown up the fault codes on my car.

[m51991]

Nat_H said:

Schermerhorn said:

Nat, which errors were you getting re the clutch problems?

Was it like this?



How was it diagnosed? What were the other symptoms?

I've been quoted £286 for the sensor from BMW

I may just get it changed along with the clutch and flywheel at some point. The warranty thing really is 50:50 and I don't want to pay nearly £3000 with parts and labour from BMW when it can be done for around £1500.00.

Edited by Schermerhorn on Wednesday 1st October 10:44

First time it happened, I was around 30 miles from home, 40 mph in 4th, on flat ground, and the red cog popped up. I did not try to change gear at the time, or when the red cog was up.

It lasted for 4 - 5 mins, randomly flicking between red and yellow cogs.

Then is cleared itself, and car drove as good as normal on the rest of the trip and on the way home.

It happened again about 2 days later, again when the car/gearbox was warm. This time I had no choice but to change gear as I was in traffic. Gear change was slow, with no clutch finesse, and trying to pull away smoothly was near impossible, very jerky, and really scary as I thought I was about to kill my car. Again after 5 mins or so, and the random flicking between red and yellow cogs, it cleared.

From all this I assumed that it was not mechanical, having had a TVR, you get a feel for sensor vs mechanical issues.

I called a local Indie to me, MVT near Wareham, who agreed with my theory. Ordered the sensor from BMW, I paid £316, and then a couple hours of labour to lower the gearbox to replace the sensor.

It drives great now, and no signs of red/yellow cogs. (touch wood)

Can you advise the garage contact details or where is it

[Nat_H]

It went to MVT in Poole - mvtpoole.co.uk

Hope this helps.