Has BMW dropped a clanger with the M3?
Discussion
In answer to the original question I would have to give a resounding yes.
Had an hour to kill whilst son was at rugby training tonight. Went to have a mooch at the local dealers. Turned out it was launch night for the new 7.
Someone was taking an M4 out for a spin. They started it just as I was walking past. The sound wasn't just unremarkable it was DIRE. My old E39 528i sounds better,.
60 grand for a performance car that sounds like that. The guy gunned it away from the garage and still nothing. If AMG can make the new V8 twin turbo sound a quarter as good as the "63" then BM have a serious competitor.
Had an hour to kill whilst son was at rugby training tonight. Went to have a mooch at the local dealers. Turned out it was launch night for the new 7.
Someone was taking an M4 out for a spin. They started it just as I was walking past. The sound wasn't just unremarkable it was DIRE. My old E39 528i sounds better,.
60 grand for a performance car that sounds like that. The guy gunned it away from the garage and still nothing. If AMG can make the new V8 twin turbo sound a quarter as good as the "63" then BM have a serious competitor.
Pentoman said:
I don't think it needs AWD. It just needs a DSC that allows a little more interaction.
Isn't that what MDM mode is for?(No experience of new M3/4 only M5) It's much closer to off than on and I'm sure with enough provocation/stupidity you could spin the car. The manual even warns you of this.
ArmaghMan said:
In answer to the original question I would have to give a resounding yes.
The amount of AUC cars gives a resounding yes too! About 150 M3 and M4's for sale......that's unbelievable for a new M3. Can't remember what the situation was like with the E90 but the E46 was rare as hen's teeth for a good year after launch and fetching premiums. I ordered mine the day the dealer got his demonstrator had had to wait a year for it!Cheib said:
The amount of AUC cars gives a resounding yes too! About 150 M3 and M4's for sale......that's unbelievable for a new M3. Can't remember what the situation was like with the E90 but the E46 was rare as hen's teeth for a good year after launch and fetching premiums. I ordered mine the day the dealer got his demonstrator had had to wait a year for it!
Likewise with my E46, waited a year for it to turn up and that was in 2003, 2 years after it had been launched.Interesting thread, and quite surprising the variance in opinions. I thought the car (m4 i tried) was far better sorted than the e92 and in particularly felt a lot less 'floaty' in handling as the e92 always felt way too big and unconnected compared to the E46. The engine in the m4 was a big disappointment though compared to the prior v8 but I suppose that was always going to happen.
I've driven every M3 since the E36 Evo and owned all of them including the CSL. I now own an M4 with DCT which if find to be an absolute hoot. Is it a car you gel with immediately, no it's not as it needs to be set up over a period of time. Is the car more fun than the E92 M3? Oh yes and then some - the E92 is dull in my opinion compared to the M4. This in terms of looks, performance and interior.
Both the E92 M3 and E46 M3 CSL had a hard time when they were released. On both occasions I walked into a dealer and bought a car on the spot without waiting. The E92 was slated due to the looks not being aggressive enough as well as the cost. The CSL was also slated due to its cost as well - did it warrant the extra money for the 'slight' increase in power etc, etc.
The new M3/M4 will loved once the price reduces and the tuning options become more accepted as its easy to achieve 500hp. Is it perfect, no - is it bonkers, absolutely. It does struggle for traction in the cold but so did the CSL, even more so with PS cup tyres. It needs an element of respect, as well as some thought and understanding that hitting the loud pedal in wet conditions, it will be very interesting very quickly.
Is the car perfect? No it's not as it needs a few tweaks and upgrades. Does it rattle in the cold, yes but it can be sorted. I think there must be a better tyre option to help with the traction as well. If you make it AWD then it takes the fun out of it. I've owned Porsche 996 X50's (turbo & power upgrade) and it was rapid with great acceleration but it became boring as the car did everything for you and it was very quiet. The only fun was the huge torque under acceleration.
The M4 needs to be set up to the driver and it takes time to configure and get the settings right. Give it 12 months and opinions will change as everyone realises its potential.
Just me 2p based on the real world experience. Oh, and the standard stereo option is cr*p but HUDs rocks.
Both the E92 M3 and E46 M3 CSL had a hard time when they were released. On both occasions I walked into a dealer and bought a car on the spot without waiting. The E92 was slated due to the looks not being aggressive enough as well as the cost. The CSL was also slated due to its cost as well - did it warrant the extra money for the 'slight' increase in power etc, etc.
The new M3/M4 will loved once the price reduces and the tuning options become more accepted as its easy to achieve 500hp. Is it perfect, no - is it bonkers, absolutely. It does struggle for traction in the cold but so did the CSL, even more so with PS cup tyres. It needs an element of respect, as well as some thought and understanding that hitting the loud pedal in wet conditions, it will be very interesting very quickly.
Is the car perfect? No it's not as it needs a few tweaks and upgrades. Does it rattle in the cold, yes but it can be sorted. I think there must be a better tyre option to help with the traction as well. If you make it AWD then it takes the fun out of it. I've owned Porsche 996 X50's (turbo & power upgrade) and it was rapid with great acceleration but it became boring as the car did everything for you and it was very quiet. The only fun was the huge torque under acceleration.
The M4 needs to be set up to the driver and it takes time to configure and get the settings right. Give it 12 months and opinions will change as everyone realises its potential.
Just me 2p based on the real world experience. Oh, and the standard stereo option is cr*p but HUDs rocks.
With respect, you're talking crap. Why would anyone buy an M4 when they could have an F10 M5?
The E30 and E46 M3s were fabulous, the E92 had a great DCT box, great V8 soundtrack, top-end fireworks.....all fabulous.
This M4 feels/sounds crap in comparison.
Have you ever known so many enthusiasts get in and then out of one in the space of a few months?
BMW can't sell them....discounting has already begun bigtime.
They're crap, plain and simple.
The E30 and E46 M3s were fabulous, the E92 had a great DCT box, great V8 soundtrack, top-end fireworks.....all fabulous.
This M4 feels/sounds crap in comparison.
Have you ever known so many enthusiasts get in and then out of one in the space of a few months?
BMW can't sell them....discounting has already begun bigtime.
They're crap, plain and simple.
Lots of mixed reviews for sure. Aside of the engine and note which are a big let down - I mean look at the GTR it doesn't sound too bad does it!!!. Surely BMW could have tried harder - maybe that'll be the M4 CSL
Lots have complained about traction issues. You just don't press the loud peddle like an on and off switch as there's far too much grunt lower down. After a few days I learnt to ease the gas in expecially when pressing on as doing otherwise simply gives everything!!!! For example, if you had a 996 GT2 you wouldn't slam on the gas mid bend as it will simply spit you out period, however gently feed the gas in and you'll be fine. For me this is how I came to adjusted my driving style in the week I had it. The car I had was on road tyres, maybe a decent set of cup+ would have improved grip. Actually if i do end up buying one, I'd probably go wider on tyres to try and overcome the traction breaks.
That said there is lots to like about this car:
1) much lighter and feels nimble
2) Decent brakes which are miles better than its predecessor
3) power delivery - with so much lowdown torque, point to point its a much quicker car. Traction issues aside i.e dry conditions, i think it's much quicker than the e92.
4) seating position is just spot - nice and low.
5) proper daily drive motor and feels just like any average coupe and has the good fuel consumption to match. When needed just press the M2 button, confirm the bmw disclaimer and it turns into one animal
(with out the bark though 
)
Maybe someone will one day throw a supercharged e92 engine into one - now that's a perfect combo...
Lots have complained about traction issues. You just don't press the loud peddle like an on and off switch as there's far too much grunt lower down. After a few days I learnt to ease the gas in expecially when pressing on as doing otherwise simply gives everything!!!! For example, if you had a 996 GT2 you wouldn't slam on the gas mid bend as it will simply spit you out period, however gently feed the gas in and you'll be fine. For me this is how I came to adjusted my driving style in the week I had it. The car I had was on road tyres, maybe a decent set of cup+ would have improved grip. Actually if i do end up buying one, I'd probably go wider on tyres to try and overcome the traction breaks.
That said there is lots to like about this car:
1) much lighter and feels nimble
2) Decent brakes which are miles better than its predecessor
3) power delivery - with so much lowdown torque, point to point its a much quicker car. Traction issues aside i.e dry conditions, i think it's much quicker than the e92.
4) seating position is just spot - nice and low.
5) proper daily drive motor and feels just like any average coupe and has the good fuel consumption to match. When needed just press the M2 button, confirm the bmw disclaimer and it turns into one animal
(with out the bark though )Maybe someone will one day throw a supercharged e92 engine into one - now that's a perfect combo...
heelntoe said:
Lots of mixed reviews for sure. Aside of the engine and note which are a big let down - I mean look at the GTR it doesn't sound too bad does it!!!. Surely BMW could have tried harder - maybe that'll be the M4 CSL
Lots have complained about traction issues. You just don't press the loud peddle like an on and off switch as there's far too much grunt lower down. After a few days I learnt to ease the gas in expecially when pressing on as doing otherwise simply gives everything!!!! For example, if you had a 996 GT2 you wouldn't slam on the gas mid bend as it will simply spit you out period, however gently feed the gas in and you'll be fine. For me this is how I came to adjusted my driving style in the week I had it. The car I had was on road tyres, maybe a decent set of cup+ would have improved grip. Actually if i do end up buying one, I'd probably go wider on tyres to try and overcome the traction breaks.
That said there is lots to like about this car:
1) much lighter and feels nimble
2) Decent brakes which are miles better than its predecessor
3) power delivery - with so much lowdown torque, point to point its a much quicker car. Traction issues aside i.e dry conditions, i think it's much quicker than the e92.
4) seating position is just spot - nice and low.
5) proper daily drive motor and feels just like any average coupe and has the good fuel consumption to match. When needed just press the M2 button, confirm the bmw disclaimer and it turns into one animal (with out the bark though )
Maybe someone will one day throw a supercharged e92 engine into one - now that's a perfect combo...
A top reply with common sense, I totally agree. Is the person who buys a two door coupe really the target market for a four door saloon? There are performance packs being launched according to the various owner websites which will enhance the base package.Lots have complained about traction issues. You just don't press the loud peddle like an on and off switch as there's far too much grunt lower down. After a few days I learnt to ease the gas in expecially when pressing on as doing otherwise simply gives everything!!!! For example, if you had a 996 GT2 you wouldn't slam on the gas mid bend as it will simply spit you out period, however gently feed the gas in and you'll be fine. For me this is how I came to adjusted my driving style in the week I had it. The car I had was on road tyres, maybe a decent set of cup+ would have improved grip. Actually if i do end up buying one, I'd probably go wider on tyres to try and overcome the traction breaks.
That said there is lots to like about this car:
1) much lighter and feels nimble
2) Decent brakes which are miles better than its predecessor
3) power delivery - with so much lowdown torque, point to point its a much quicker car. Traction issues aside i.e dry conditions, i think it's much quicker than the e92.
4) seating position is just spot - nice and low.
5) proper daily drive motor and feels just like any average coupe and has the good fuel consumption to match. When needed just press the M2 button, confirm the bmw disclaimer and it turns into one animal
(with out the bark though )Maybe someone will one day throw a supercharged e92 engine into one - now that's a perfect combo...
Jazzer said:
With respect, you're talking crap. Why would anyone buy an M4 when they could have an F10 M5?
The E30 and E46 M3s were fabulous, the E92 had a great DCT box, great V8 soundtrack, top-end fireworks.....all fabulous.
This M4 feels/sounds crap in comparison.
Have you ever known so many enthusiasts get in and then out of one in the space of a few months?
BMW can't sell them....discounting has already begun bigtime.
They're crap, plain and simple.
Well, with all due respect you're a dick. I offered an opinion based upon real world experience over a number of iterations of the M3 and now my experience with the M4. Saying someone's thoughts are 'crap' is simply pathetic, grow up it's not necessary.The E30 and E46 M3s were fabulous, the E92 had a great DCT box, great V8 soundtrack, top-end fireworks.....all fabulous.
This M4 feels/sounds crap in comparison.
Have you ever known so many enthusiasts get in and then out of one in the space of a few months?
BMW can't sell them....discounting has already begun bigtime.
They're crap, plain and simple.
Quite simply I don't want a barge with four doors that does everything for me. Can I afford an M5 or M6 yes but do I want one, no. There are better cars than both of them.
So BMW produce a car with some decent torque and you have to be awake to drive it properly, but you don't like it so whinge about it, move on. How much time did you spend in each of these cars?
GameOverMan! said:
I've driven every M3 since the E36 Evo and owned all of them including the CSL. I now own an M4 with DCT which if find to be an absolute hoot. Is it a car you gel with immediately, no it's not as it needs to be set up over a period of time. Is the car more fun than the E92 M3? Oh yes and then some - the E92 is dull in my opinion compared to the M4. This in terms of looks, performance and interior.
Both the E92 M3 and E46 M3 CSL had a hard time when they were released. On both occasions I walked into a dealer and bought a car on the spot without waiting. The E92 was slated due to the looks not being aggressive enough as well as the cost. The CSL was also slated due to its cost as well - did it warrant the extra money for the 'slight' increase in power etc, etc.
The new M3/M4 will loved once the price reduces and the tuning options become more accepted as its easy to achieve 500hp. Is it perfect, no - is it bonkers, absolutely. It does struggle for traction in the cold but so did the CSL, even more so with PS cup tyres. It needs an element of respect, as well as some thought and understanding that hitting the loud pedal in wet conditions, it will be very interesting very quickly.
Is the car perfect? No it's not as it needs a few tweaks and upgrades. Does it rattle in the cold, yes but it can be sorted. I think there must be a better tyre option to help with the traction as well. If you make it AWD then it takes the fun out of it. I've owned Porsche 996 X50's (turbo & power upgrade) and it was rapid with great acceleration but it became boring as the car did everything for you and it was very quiet. The only fun was the huge torque under acceleration.
The M4 needs to be set up to the driver and it takes time to configure and get the settings right. Give it 12 months and opinions will change as everyone realises its potential.
Just me 2p based on the real world experience. Oh, and the standard stereo option is cr*p but HUDs rocks.
Totally agree - just thought I'd jog people's memmories on E92 stone walling back in 07/08 curtesy of YouTube. Not forgetting how one could buy a 6 month old e92 m3 for just £30k at the peak of the financial crisis in 08/09 when we all thought capitalism had come to an end..Both the E92 M3 and E46 M3 CSL had a hard time when they were released. On both occasions I walked into a dealer and bought a car on the spot without waiting. The E92 was slated due to the looks not being aggressive enough as well as the cost. The CSL was also slated due to its cost as well - did it warrant the extra money for the 'slight' increase in power etc, etc.
The new M3/M4 will loved once the price reduces and the tuning options become more accepted as its easy to achieve 500hp. Is it perfect, no - is it bonkers, absolutely. It does struggle for traction in the cold but so did the CSL, even more so with PS cup tyres. It needs an element of respect, as well as some thought and understanding that hitting the loud pedal in wet conditions, it will be very interesting very quickly.
Is the car perfect? No it's not as it needs a few tweaks and upgrades. Does it rattle in the cold, yes but it can be sorted. I think there must be a better tyre option to help with the traction as well. If you make it AWD then it takes the fun out of it. I've owned Porsche 996 X50's (turbo & power upgrade) and it was rapid with great acceleration but it became boring as the car did everything for you and it was very quiet. The only fun was the huge torque under acceleration.
The M4 needs to be set up to the driver and it takes time to configure and get the settings right. Give it 12 months and opinions will change as everyone realises its potential.
Just me 2p based on the real world experience. Oh, and the standard stereo option is cr*p but HUDs rocks.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4xJ3fmsLhFA
Steve says it's gone soft..
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bAYJLCrLjOM
Chris confirms it having a hard time with UK car review mags
I'm sure by this time next year we will all be talking about how quick these things are on track. Apparently it's as quick as the GTS round the ring in stock form - I'm sure a few tweaks on tyres, suspension and geometry setup could bring it down to 7:35-40
Edited by heelntoe on Saturday 6th December 01:09
GameOverMan! said:
Jazzer said:
With respect, you're talking crap. Why would anyone buy an M4 when they could have an F10 M5?
The E30 and E46 M3s were fabulous, the E92 had a great DCT box, great V8 soundtrack, top-end fireworks.....all fabulous.
This M4 feels/sounds crap in comparison.
Have you ever known so many enthusiasts get in and then out of one in the space of a few months?
BMW can't sell them....discounting has already begun bigtime.
They're crap, plain and simple.
Well, with all due respect you're a dick. I offered an opinion based upon real world experience over a number of iterations of the M3 and now my experience with the M4. Saying someone's thoughts are 'crap' is simply pathetic, grow up it's not necessary.The E30 and E46 M3s were fabulous, the E92 had a great DCT box, great V8 soundtrack, top-end fireworks.....all fabulous.
This M4 feels/sounds crap in comparison.
Have you ever known so many enthusiasts get in and then out of one in the space of a few months?
BMW can't sell them....discounting has already begun bigtime.
They're crap, plain and simple.
Quite simply I don't want a barge with four doors that does everything for me. Can I afford an M5 or M6 yes but do I want one, no. There are better cars than both of them.
So BMW produce a car with some decent torque and you have to be awake to drive it properly, but you don't like it so whinge about it, move on. How much time did you spend in each of these cars?
You may not have liked them, but there was no need for you to become personal.
I am in fact a dick, but you don't really know that!!!!
True to PH style there are some proper stupid comments on here....For example saying this car is crap merely on the exhaust sound as they heard it drive up the road ffs.
Others stating it's a disaster because it's not an M5
Most of these non believers haven't even driven this car
Thankfully there are some real world responses from guys that actually own a car and have lived to see how history repeats itself.
Others stating it's a disaster because it's not an M5
Most of these non believers haven't even driven this car
Thankfully there are some real world responses from guys that actually own a car and have lived to see how history repeats itself.
I've had my M4 (near enough an M3) since launch (actually a couple of days prior) In that time I've only had it feel slightly unstuck enough to see the traction light come on once and that was having a bit of a blast coming off a roundabout onto a damp and diesel traveled road, I've read all the reviews and seen the video reviews since the press launch and been surprised at how differently the cars have been received, some seem to think its marvellous and some like evo seem to like to point out its massively flawed and sounds like a taxi.
My only real gripe with the car after this long is that unless you're in sport plus its annoying throttle matching setting makes engine breaking on down shifts non existent, a button press fixes that though, other than that its spot on, honestly don't see what the internet is getting so upset about.
My only real gripe with the car after this long is that unless you're in sport plus its annoying throttle matching setting makes engine breaking on down shifts non existent, a button press fixes that though, other than that its spot on, honestly don't see what the internet is getting so upset about.
vpr said:
True to PH style there are some proper stupid comments on here....For example saying this car is crap merely on the exhaust sound as they heard it drive up the road ffs.
Others stating it's a disaster because it's not an M5
Most of these non believers haven't even driven this car
Thankfully there are some real world responses from guys that actually own a car and have lived to see how history repeats itself.
You clearly did not understand what I said.Others stating it's a disaster because it's not an M5
Most of these non believers haven't even driven this car
Thankfully there are some real world responses from guys that actually own a car and have lived to see how history repeats itself.
The new car does not, in my opinion, compare well with previous iterations of the M3.
This is based on living with one for two days to see, for myself, what's what.
The rattling noise on start up is awful, and more than a little embarrassing....I thought there was something wrong with it.
It's not that it isn't an M5, I just don't know why you'd have one when you could have an M5 (the M3 is kind of bloated itself now!)
The Top Gear crew preferred a Golf R to the M3/M4, I do too.
I'm sure some people like them, good luck to them.
I actually own a M4 and previously ran E46 and E92 M3's. It is difficult to assess the car after a few days use and I'm still on a discovery curve after 3 months. It will be interesting to reflect on the negativity ( its crap) after the first 12 months during which the numerous positive virtues will no doubt become better reported. In the meantime I love the car and will be keeping it!
They say you should never criticise the place a person comes from, on the basis that that's the hand they were dealt with.
I get that.
It would appear that this extends to cars now, especially of the M3 variety.
Mind you, I can understand the simmering anger....I'd probably feel the same if I bought one!
On a side note, why is it that so many people these days talk of "a M3", rather than "an M3"??
I always thought "an" was correct, as it's followed by a vowel sound "em"....I must have got this wrong!
I get that.
It would appear that this extends to cars now, especially of the M3 variety.
Mind you, I can understand the simmering anger....I'd probably feel the same if I bought one!
On a side note, why is it that so many people these days talk of "a M3", rather than "an M3"??
I always thought "an" was correct, as it's followed by a vowel sound "em"....I must have got this wrong!
GameOverMan! said:
I've driven every M3 since the E36 Evo and owned all of them including the CSL. I now own an M4 with DCT which if find to be an absolute hoot. Is it a car you gel with immediately, no it's not as it needs to be set up over a period of time. Is the car more fun than the E92 M3? Oh yes and then some - the E92 is dull in my opinion compared to the M4. This in terms of looks, performance and interior.
Both the E92 M3 and E46 M3 CSL had a hard time when they were released. On both occasions I walked into a dealer and bought a car on the spot without waiting. The E92 was slated due to the looks not being aggressive enough as well as the cost. The CSL was also slated due to its cost as well - did it warrant the extra money for the 'slight' increase in power etc, etc.
The new M3/M4 will loved once the price reduces and the tuning options become more accepted as its easy to achieve 500hp. Is it perfect, no - is it bonkers, absolutely. It does struggle for traction in the cold but so did the CSL, even more so with PS cup tyres. It needs an element of respect, as well as some thought and understanding that hitting the loud pedal in wet conditions, it will be very interesting very quickly.
Is the car perfect? No it's not as it needs a few tweaks and upgrades. Does it rattle in the cold, yes but it can be sorted. I think there must be a better tyre option to help with the traction as well. If you make it AWD then it takes the fun out of it. I've owned Porsche 996 X50's (turbo & power upgrade) and it was rapid with great acceleration but it became boring as the car did everything for you and it was very quiet. The only fun was the huge torque under acceleration.
The M4 needs to be set up to the driver and it takes time to configure and get the settings right. Give it 12 months and opinions will change as everyone realises its potential.
Just me 2p based on the real world experience. Oh, and the standard stereo option is cr*p but HUDs rocks.
Completely agree with this.Both the E92 M3 and E46 M3 CSL had a hard time when they were released. On both occasions I walked into a dealer and bought a car on the spot without waiting. The E92 was slated due to the looks not being aggressive enough as well as the cost. The CSL was also slated due to its cost as well - did it warrant the extra money for the 'slight' increase in power etc, etc.
The new M3/M4 will loved once the price reduces and the tuning options become more accepted as its easy to achieve 500hp. Is it perfect, no - is it bonkers, absolutely. It does struggle for traction in the cold but so did the CSL, even more so with PS cup tyres. It needs an element of respect, as well as some thought and understanding that hitting the loud pedal in wet conditions, it will be very interesting very quickly.
Is the car perfect? No it's not as it needs a few tweaks and upgrades. Does it rattle in the cold, yes but it can be sorted. I think there must be a better tyre option to help with the traction as well. If you make it AWD then it takes the fun out of it. I've owned Porsche 996 X50's (turbo & power upgrade) and it was rapid with great acceleration but it became boring as the car did everything for you and it was very quiet. The only fun was the huge torque under acceleration.
The M4 needs to be set up to the driver and it takes time to configure and get the settings right. Give it 12 months and opinions will change as everyone realises its potential.
Just me 2p based on the real world experience. Oh, and the standard stereo option is cr*p but HUDs rocks.
The E46 M3 by modern standards isn't set your hair on fire kind of fast but it feels it due to the engine and general feel of the thing.
The E92 although quicker to me felt slower than the E46, it just didn't feel very alive and was too soft.
The F80 feels fast but is also bonkers fast. I can't believe how much grunt there is, it's what the M3 has needed to really compete with C63's etc for awhile. It's the first BMW I would feel a bit anxious about pushing at the track as it feels a real handful which is a great thing. When I do get one I know it'll keep me interested for a long time.
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