Has BMW dropped a clanger with the M3?
Discussion
DMC2 said:
I got in and out of an M4 within 6 weeks, I thought it was an utter dog. Suspension too stiff meaning it skips all over the road, terrible flex and shimmies through the chassis, numb steering, traction control which has to be turned off as you cannot drive anywhere near quick with it on, DSG gearbox which is miles off a PDK box, power delivery which lights up the back wheels far too quickly, ceramic brakes that loose their feel when driven hard and a bloody irritating creaking dash. I found the car so bad that on my favourite back road I actually shut off as the experience was so poor. I would recommend the M3/M4 to nobody. I'm off back to a Porsche.
So, you didn't rate it then?! 
Gruber said:
shim said:
its called getting older!
ive driven all the M3/M5 and the latest is a big step up to the E92.....which was really only a minor improvement over the E46
I disagree. I much preferred the n/a power delivery of the e92. And that V8 was magnificent. I just don't feel the same about the new car. The package feels like style over substance and it seems to have lost it's heart and soul. It just doesn't appeal to me. Money no object... I'd take the nicest e92 I could find. ive driven all the M3/M5 and the latest is a big step up to the E92.....which was really only a minor improvement over the E46
The E46's were great cars in both manual and SMG but the E92 was head and shoulders above it...better in every single way and a real icon from BMW. If I had the space, I would but an E92 M3 coupe DCT with EDC in a heartbeat.
The M6 is fabulously quick with huge torque but it just does not feel like a fast car....god its quick and has presence but with so much sound proofing, the V8 in the M6 sounds so muted compared to the V8 in the E92.
As for the new M3 / M4...I don't particularly care for the lower quality interior....the cover for the cup holders typifies the issue....poorly designed details.
I drove a couple but it feels like a smaller version of mine without the chorus that should come with it.
SidewaysSi said:
Yep I was a bit surprised to read it to be honest. A good car but apparently becomes scrappy near the limit and can't seem to cope with a their usual Welsh test roads. Apparently also becomes quite a handful in the wet.
Oh well, plenty if E9Xs about.
With over 400lbft from 1,800rpm and 425hp and only two driven wheels I think most cars would be a bit of a handful in the wet if you try and use all of it! I love the massive increase in performance over all the previous generations and the way it means you can interact with the car on wet or dry roads.Oh well, plenty if E9Xs about.
daz05 said:
Technically it's an improvement and they have done well in what they have created but it's missing something. Faster and sharper, but it feels bigger and the character has gone.
The gap between these and the hot hatches is also now much closer than ever and they are half the price.
Same story with the M5 I just don't find myself wanting one anymore...
I find the fact you can now sit nice and low unlike the E92 makes the E80 feel smaller and it feels a lot lighter on it feet. I agree hot hatches are getting faster and would frighten E92 drivers, but the new E80 is so much faster it really is in another class.The gap between these and the hot hatches is also now much closer than ever and they are half the price.
Same story with the M5 I just don't find myself wanting one anymore...
Edited by daz05 on Sunday 9th November 21:13
Maybe on a straight motorway but it's not in another league it just puts its power down sooner. Unfortunately I think something like a Golf R would give both models a tough time on UK roads. I have one on order btw and have driven both extensively. The m4 felt significantly larger to me. It looks it too. They look great sitting behind you in your mirror though BMW got that very right.
I took the m4 for a decent test drive, liked it ok but not enough to jump into one.
As everyone says the e92 is superb, and a car that is special enough to have in the garage for weekends. The m4 is a good progression but not sure it feels just as special. In saying that my old e30 m3 2.5 evo sport felt the most special of all, despite being slowest on paper.
As everyone says the e92 is superb, and a car that is special enough to have in the garage for weekends. The m4 is a good progression but not sure it feels just as special. In saying that my old e30 m3 2.5 evo sport felt the most special of all, despite being slowest on paper.
I had an M4 for a couple of days (courtesy car!) and was not impressed with it at all.
The interior felt/looked cheap and the noise just became annoying.....felt rough to me.
The Golf R comment was bang on the money: the R would make an M4 driver think on give and take roads in the dry.
In the wet, the R would walk from the M....the traction in those things is stunning.
The interior felt/looked cheap and the noise just became annoying.....felt rough to me.
The Golf R comment was bang on the money: the R would make an M4 driver think on give and take roads in the dry.
In the wet, the R would walk from the M....the traction in those things is stunning.
Jazzer said:
I had an M4 for a couple of days (courtesy car!) and was not impressed with it at all.
The interior felt/looked cheap and the noise just became annoying.....felt rough to me.
The Golf R comment was bang on the money: the R would make an M4 driver think on give and take roads in the dry.
In the wet, the R would walk from the M....the traction in those things is stunning.
I had a good drive in a Golf R. It is a fast car, but the 80bhp per tonne and 120lbft deficite renders it more on a par with an E46 M3 albeit still heavier and less powerful. My friend who's Golf it was struggled to comprehend just how much faster and more grip my M3 had.The interior felt/looked cheap and the noise just became annoying.....felt rough to me.
The Golf R comment was bang on the money: the R would make an M4 driver think on give and take roads in the dry.
In the wet, the R would walk from the M....the traction in those things is stunning.
My drive in his Golf was mainly in the wet and whilst the golf did have good traction it had poor front end grip compared to the M3. On wet roads the golf was very sure footed but ultimately not as fast and quite a lot less exciting than the M3!
I do agree that if you are not experienced with Rwd and comfortable with movement from the rear axel the Golf may well prove to be a safer bet, but then I guess it is unfair to compare the M3 to the golf R as BMW' s comparable product is surely a 135m or Mini Cooper S?
I'm lucky enough to have an F10 M5 and a Golf R at my disposal.
I think I know something about RWD and I think I know something about the AWD R, especially how to exploit the haldex system to drive through understeer.
The R would embarrass an M4 in the wet in anything other than a straight line, it's almost Evo quick down a back road.
We should try this some time!
I'd still take an E92 over the M4.
I think I know something about RWD and I think I know something about the AWD R, especially how to exploit the haldex system to drive through understeer.
The R would embarrass an M4 in the wet in anything other than a straight line, it's almost Evo quick down a back road.
We should try this some time!
I'd still take an E92 over the M4.
DMC2 said:
I got in and out of an M4 within 6 weeks, I thought it was an utter dog. Suspension too stiff meaning it skips all over the road, terrible flex and shimmies through the chassis, numb steering, traction control which has to be turned off as you cannot drive anywhere near quick with it on, DSG gearbox which is miles off a PDK box, power delivery which lights up the back wheels far too quickly, ceramic brakes that loose their feel when driven hard and a bloody irritating creaking dash. I found the car so bad that on my favourite back road I actually shut off as the experience was so poor. I would recommend the M3/M4 to nobody. I'm off back to a Porsche.
Wow, I've not read such scathing criticism of the m4 so far, and I've been doing a fair bit of reading around these carsI guess everyone has their own expectations and standards eg I had a GTR which I actually thought was not a particularly good car, but most owners rave incessantly about them
Did you lose a great deal in your short ownership?
turboman786 said:
Wow, I've not read such scathing criticism of the m4 so far, and I've been doing a fair bit of reading around these cars
I guess everyone has their own expectations and standards eg I had a GTR which I actually thought was not a particularly good car, but most owners rave incessantly about them
Did you lose a great deal in your short ownership?
It was a bit painful, but I quickly came to the conclusion life is too short to live with it any longer.I guess everyone has their own expectations and standards eg I had a GTR which I actually thought was not a particularly good car, but most owners rave incessantly about them
Did you lose a great deal in your short ownership?
Read this review, this closely sums up my thoughts... http://sniffpetrol.com/2014/10/17/a-week-with-a-bm...
If you compare a car with it's peers at the time the E46 was the stand out M3 of the last three for me....it was MILES better than the competition. Been going downhill since or rather the competition have caught up. I know a lot of people like the E92 because of it's naturally aspirated V8 which is clearly something very special and unlikely to be repeated but it was also a heavy old lump of a car.
Didn't EVO rave about the M135i and then a few months down the line start slating it? Have they done the same here?
I read EVO from the first issue. I cancelled my subscription a year if so ago, but still read it occasionally as it is part on my Readr App subscription - one of my reason for cancelling was their inconsistent reviews, and the gradual fall in quality when Nick Trott took over.
I read EVO from the first issue. I cancelled my subscription a year if so ago, but still read it occasionally as it is part on my Readr App subscription - one of my reason for cancelling was their inconsistent reviews, and the gradual fall in quality when Nick Trott took over.
I've actually had one on loan for just under week now and in many ways agree with all that's been said above. However, the car IMO does have some great positives compared to my E92.
First off, its clearly much quicker, although you don't feel the speed sensation as I do in the E92. I think there are only a handful of -ves about the car and sadly pretty major ones at that. 1) Engine tone 2) Exhaust tone 3) Back half of Car's looks. The front looks amazing with great presence, however, side angle view isn't as nice - I think the M3 version looks much better with the slight flared wheel arches.
The TC simply can't cope with the torque and will interfere all through to mid 3rd gear under hard acceleration. However, turning MDM Mode on really does bring the car alive, giving some split angle which i find exciting. One thing i find surprising is that under full acceleration, in car cabin noise can be loud but sadly not the same on the outside.
Brakes are miles apart from the E92's wooden setup
. I find the brakes as good as i had on my Z4MC which had AP's all round and was ~130kg lighter than stock. As you press on and brake, it's noticeable this car weighs much less than the E92. You can also tell that weight reduction was at the forefront of their design plans, lifting the driver or pax seat forward, it feels immediately lighter - maybe this transcends into the materials used elsewhere in the car. That said, I think the interior is a huge improvement on the E92, how it compares to Audi or Merc- i don't know.
Probably not the best benchmark as I run my E92 on Cups, but for what it's worth, i found the Michelin S/S's on the car more than adequate in the wet. I was able to safely press on without TC interfering too much. Oh a couple of other good bits i found - Fuel economy is much much better, it feels like 50% better although probably not as such in reality. Cabin room - I was able to get two full sized adults in the back and they both thought backseat space was an improvement in the E92.
Point to point, the M4 is extremely capable and did put a smile on my face especially how quick it picks up speed in any gear - getting into 4th gear at say 50mph as you join a motorway off a slip road and berry the throttle, you will sure run out of revvs by the time you join the motorway!!! Its that quick.
Suspension is complaint, even at the stiffer setting it rides our beloved London speed humps better than it's predecessor. You just find yourself not slowing down as hard as the ride is that smoother over them.
Big let downs for me are the engine tone - they've clearly tried all sorts and credit for effort, i mean it does revv pretty high for a F/I engine. Sadly, it lacks that top end fizz you get from the S54 and V8. When pressing on, whilst it has the downshift auto throttle blip, this goes unnoticed and is muffled at best.
Let's hope there's a CSL version to come as they have clearly have a great platform to improve on without spending too much ££. I too will be keeping the E92, but may be tempted into one in 3/4 years time.
Watch this vid and you'll be impressed by the kinematics thrown at this car, something an E92 can only dream of having. It's said to be as quick as the GTS on the ring -1 or 2 secs slower. http://youtu.be/8CJ6IwVzV-A
First off, its clearly much quicker, although you don't feel the speed sensation as I do in the E92. I think there are only a handful of -ves about the car and sadly pretty major ones at that. 1) Engine tone 2) Exhaust tone 3) Back half of Car's looks. The front looks amazing with great presence, however, side angle view isn't as nice - I think the M3 version looks much better with the slight flared wheel arches.
The TC simply can't cope with the torque and will interfere all through to mid 3rd gear under hard acceleration. However, turning MDM Mode on really does bring the car alive, giving some split angle which i find exciting. One thing i find surprising is that under full acceleration, in car cabin noise can be loud but sadly not the same on the outside.
Brakes are miles apart from the E92's wooden setup
. I find the brakes as good as i had on my Z4MC which had AP's all round and was ~130kg lighter than stock. As you press on and brake, it's noticeable this car weighs much less than the E92. You can also tell that weight reduction was at the forefront of their design plans, lifting the driver or pax seat forward, it feels immediately lighter - maybe this transcends into the materials used elsewhere in the car. That said, I think the interior is a huge improvement on the E92, how it compares to Audi or Merc- i don't know.Probably not the best benchmark as I run my E92 on Cups, but for what it's worth, i found the Michelin S/S's on the car more than adequate in the wet. I was able to safely press on without TC interfering too much. Oh a couple of other good bits i found - Fuel economy is much much better, it feels like 50% better although probably not as such in reality. Cabin room - I was able to get two full sized adults in the back and they both thought backseat space was an improvement in the E92.
Point to point, the M4 is extremely capable and did put a smile on my face especially how quick it picks up speed in any gear - getting into 4th gear at say 50mph as you join a motorway off a slip road and berry the throttle, you will sure run out of revvs by the time you join the motorway!!! Its that quick.
Suspension is complaint, even at the stiffer setting it rides our beloved London speed humps better than it's predecessor. You just find yourself not slowing down as hard as the ride is that smoother over them.
Big let downs for me are the engine tone - they've clearly tried all sorts and credit for effort, i mean it does revv pretty high for a F/I engine. Sadly, it lacks that top end fizz you get from the S54 and V8. When pressing on, whilst it has the downshift auto throttle blip, this goes unnoticed and is muffled at best.
Let's hope there's a CSL version to come as they have clearly have a great platform to improve on without spending too much ££. I too will be keeping the E92, but may be tempted into one in 3/4 years time.
Watch this vid and you'll be impressed by the kinematics thrown at this car, something an E92 can only dream of having. It's said to be as quick as the GTS on the ring -1 or 2 secs slower. http://youtu.be/8CJ6IwVzV-A
SidewaysSi said:
All interesting views TBH. I may need to try one but a test drive is very different to having one on the limit. The handling apparently is quite poor which does surprise me.
I won't spoil it but a VW and Renault trounce the M3 on this occasion.
im not sure why the handling is poor...............felt sublime to me and i was not fannying aroundI won't spoil it but a VW and Renault trounce the M3 on this occasion.
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