Has BMW dropped a clanger with the M3?
Discussion
It really cant be that bad if it makes it into ECOTY! This is the best of the best! I agree that the Golf R is a great car but its not a BMW and never will be and lets be honest its no where near as quick as an M3.
There is no direct competition in its class anywhere near this test. I think its easy to jump on the band wagon about the noise and liveliness of the handling etc because everyone is taking about it, but is it really that bad???
I do seem to remember people slagging off the F10 M5 when it first came out and look at that now, who hasn't got one!
There is no direct competition in its class anywhere near this test. I think its easy to jump on the band wagon about the noise and liveliness of the handling etc because everyone is taking about it, but is it really that bad???
I do seem to remember people slagging off the F10 M5 when it first came out and look at that now, who hasn't got one!
FazerBoy said:
I bought one of the last E92 M3s off the production line specifically so that I could experience a large, high-revving, normally-aspirated engine in a (relatively) affordable car before they are phased out for good due to legal constraints etc.
I had a highly-tuned and modified 135i prior to this which put out similar peak power to my M3 with a lot more torque but I find the M3 much more enjoyable. The E92 M3 engine has so much character and I find every drive an 'occasion'. The fact that one has to work a little harder for the performance than one would with a heavily torque-laden engine is what I like about the V8 (although I appreciate that others dislike the V8 precisely because of this). It's not really about absolute performance but rather how the performance makes me feel.
I certainly won't be swapping my M3 for one of the turbo-charged ones...
Absolutely nailed it with this post.I had a highly-tuned and modified 135i prior to this which put out similar peak power to my M3 with a lot more torque but I find the M3 much more enjoyable. The E92 M3 engine has so much character and I find every drive an 'occasion'. The fact that one has to work a little harder for the performance than one would with a heavily torque-laden engine is what I like about the V8 (although I appreciate that others dislike the V8 precisely because of this). It's not really about absolute performance but rather how the performance makes me feel.
I certainly won't be swapping my M3 for one of the turbo-charged ones...
A pleasure that you have to work for is all the more rewarding than one that is just too easily accessible.
Toblerone for breakfast lunch and dinner would put me off chocolate....
vpr said:
I don't agree regarding the suspension being bad in the new M3/4
Way more compliant against the E90/2. soaks up bumps and doesn't transmit thuds half as much through to the cabin
I disagree. I recently had a ride in a friend's F80 on roads near where I live (I.e. I am very familiar with them) and the first thing I noticed was that the ride was much harsher (F80 set in normal mode, which is equivalent to comfort) than my E92 Comp Pack in Comfort mode. Way more compliant against the E90/2. soaks up bumps and doesn't transmit thuds half as much through to the cabin
I am not saying that suspension control was poor, but there is noticeably less compliance (exactly what Herr Biermann spent some time talking about in the linked video) and this makes the ride feel less refined.
And I was comparing almost new tyres (lots of tread) with at least half worn tyres, which should favour the newer car in terms of perceived ride quality.
I won't quote from the mag but summarised it came down to a lack of control, polish and precision at the limit which became quite edgy in the wet.
Granted it was away from smooth roads and on no doubt challenging welsh roads. Furthermore, the EVO testers are no doubt more talented than most of us.
The Golf didn't just beat the M3, it thrashed it. As did a certain Renault.
Granted it was away from smooth roads and on no doubt challenging welsh roads. Furthermore, the EVO testers are no doubt more talented than most of us.
The Golf didn't just beat the M3, it thrashed it. As did a certain Renault.
SidewaysSi said:
I won't quote from the mag but summarised it came down to a lack of control, polish and precision at the limit which became quite edgy in the wet.
Granted it was away from smooth roads and on no doubt challenging welsh roads. Furthermore, the EVO testers are no doubt more talented than most of us.
The Golf didn't just beat the M3, it thrashed it. As did a certain Renault.
I took the M4 around the Peaks and Snowdonia followed by the Evo Triangle all in 2 days. Sat on the motorway i was dying to be back in an M5 but as soon as we hit Snowdonia the M4 imho was sublime. Miles ahead on the E92 in all but engine note. THe turbo power was delivered perfectly and once you got used to the torque, grip could be controlled and the DSC was not an issue anymore.Granted it was away from smooth roads and on no doubt challenging welsh roads. Furthermore, the EVO testers are no doubt more talented than most of us.
The Golf didn't just beat the M3, it thrashed it. As did a certain Renault.
As for the wet, an 1.6 mx5 is quicker than my CSL , so no big surprises there. No prises in the wet for speed.
I wont get one, but then again i didnt get the E46 or E92 as i prefer the M5 tbh for my daily drive, but i think it is a big step forward.
Edited by shim on Wednesday 12th November 22:58
Tony B2 said:
vpr said:
I don't agree regarding the suspension being bad in the new M3/4
Way more compliant against the E90/2. soaks up bumps and doesn't transmit thuds half as much through to the cabin
I disagree. I recently had a ride in a friend's F80 on roads near where I live (I.e. I am very familiar with them) and the first thing I noticed was that the ride was much harsher (F80 set in normal mode, which is equivalent to comfort) than my E92 Comp Pack in Comfort mode. Way more compliant against the E90/2. soaks up bumps and doesn't transmit thuds half as much through to the cabin
I am not saying that suspension control was poor, but there is noticeably less compliance (exactly what Herr Biermann spent some time talking about in the linked video) and this makes the ride feel less refined.
And I was comparing almost new tyres (lots of tread) with at least half worn tyres, which should favour the newer car in terms of perceived ride quality.
BUT then I'm not on the limit of traction and ragging it as the EVO guys were refering to.......school runs and shopping trips the F80 is far better
theotherJamie said:
tobybmw535i said:
I do seem to remember people slagging off the F10 M5 when it first came out and look at that now, who hasn't got one!
A massive dealer contribution will always help to overlook any conceivable deficiency 
vpr said:
BUT then I'm not on the limit of traction and ragging it as the EVO guys were refering to.......school runs and shopping trips the F80 is far better
Film voiceover voice on: "The new m3, not so good on the limit, but great at school runs and shopping trips"I don't think we will ever see that statement in the M marketing material
Edited by andyeds1234 on Thursday 13th November 17:06
Edited by andyeds1234 on Thursday 13th November 17:06
DMC2 said:
I got in and out of an M4 within 6 weeks, I thought it was an utter dog. Suspension too stiff meaning it skips all over the road, terrible flex and shimmies through the chassis, numb steering, traction control which has to be turned off as you cannot drive anywhere near quick with it on, DSG gearbox which is miles off a PDK box, power delivery which lights up the back wheels far too quickly, ceramic brakes that loose their feel when driven hard and a bloody irritating creaking dash. I found the car so bad that on my favourite back road I actually shut off as the experience was so poor. I would recommend the M3/M4 to nobody. I'm off back to a Porsche.
This pretty much is exactly what i thought, I had a 4 hour test drive, took the car back after about 40 mins, I just didnt get on with it, it just didnt feel right, i was totally dissapointed.Wills2 said:
theotherJamie said:
tobybmw535i said:
I do seem to remember people slagging off the F10 M5 when it first came out and look at that now, who hasn't got one!
A massive dealer contribution will always help to overlook any conceivable deficiency 39sl said:
The M6 is fabulously quick with huge torque but it just does not feel like a fast car....god its quick and has presence but with so much sound proofing, the V8 in the M6 sounds so muted compared to the V8 in the E92.
As for the new M3 / M4...I don't particularly care for the lower quality interior....the cover for the cup holders typifies the issue....poorly designed details.
I drove a couple but it feels like a smaller version of mine without the chorus that should come with it.
I have sold the LCI M5 and now have the M6 GC Comp Pack, I have wired open the exhaust Valves and the sound is great, I do have the Competition exhaust though.As for the new M3 / M4...I don't particularly care for the lower quality interior....the cover for the cup holders typifies the issue....poorly designed details.
I drove a couple but it feels like a smaller version of mine without the chorus that should come with it.
Power is mental.
I've cancelled my M3 order. The combination of being messed around on the delivery date, the falling prices of the used cars in the system, and the initial reports I was getting out of the eCOTY camp were enough to make me have second thoughts.
I've picked up a 997.2 GTS for a few thousand less that the M3 was going to cost. Better finance rate through OPC than BMW were offering and hopefully a little less depreciation to boot. It's got 4 seats, so works for me as a daily driver taking the kids to school. And there is little doubt about the quality of the chassis or power delivery.
I've picked up a 997.2 GTS for a few thousand less that the M3 was going to cost. Better finance rate through OPC than BMW were offering and hopefully a little less depreciation to boot. It's got 4 seats, so works for me as a daily driver taking the kids to school. And there is little doubt about the quality of the chassis or power delivery.
I've corrected that for you.
King Billy said:
The R would be embarrassed by an M4 in anything other than cornering in streaming wet conditions
I've driven the M3 and it is ballistic. About 4 seconds faster 0-100 than a Golf and a lot quicker in the gears as well. I always smile when people talk about how a 4WD car will thrash an M car in the wet. Personally I don't drive like an idiot in very wet conditions. I slow down. So the fact that I could drive like a bigger bell end in the wet in a Golf R than in the M3 is of little interest to me frankly. I'm not diminishing the R, it's a cracking car but it would get completely annihilated in most circumstances by an M3/4. Oh and didn't Autocar time the Seat equivalent of the Golf R faster around the track than the Golf? So 4WD isn't all it's cracked up to be. Edited by original guvnor on Sunday 16th November 11:41
I have to agree with King Billy's sentiments.
This is based on having an M car and an R at my disposal, not reading what others say in magazines.
There are very few cars that would touch an R down a back road with bumps and cambers, tight bends.
And that's in the dry.
The M3s and M4s are not in that group of cars, plain and simple.
I think they're crap, with poor ride/handling (all over the place when things get bumpy), with the most grating engine sound.
I was shocked at how bad the one I had was.
Clanger for sure in my opinion......just look at how the prices are tumbling already.
This is based on having an M car and an R at my disposal, not reading what others say in magazines.
There are very few cars that would touch an R down a back road with bumps and cambers, tight bends.
And that's in the dry.
The M3s and M4s are not in that group of cars, plain and simple.
I think they're crap, with poor ride/handling (all over the place when things get bumpy), with the most grating engine sound.
I was shocked at how bad the one I had was.
Clanger for sure in my opinion......just look at how the prices are tumbling already.
Tony B2 said:
FazerBoy said:
I bought one of the last E92 M3s off the production line specifically so that I could experience a large, high-revving, normally-aspirated engine in a (relatively) affordable car before they are phased out for good due to legal constraints etc.
I had a highly-tuned and modified 135i prior to this which put out similar peak power to my M3 with a lot more torque but I find the M3 much more enjoyable. The E92 M3 engine has so much character and I find every drive an 'occasion'. The fact that one has to work a little harder for the performance than one would with a heavily torque-laden engine is what I like about the V8 (although I appreciate that others dislike the V8 precisely because of this). It's not really about absolute performance but rather how the performance makes me feel.
I certainly won't be swapping my M3 for one of the turbo-charged ones...
Absolutely nailed it with this post.I had a highly-tuned and modified 135i prior to this which put out similar peak power to my M3 with a lot more torque but I find the M3 much more enjoyable. The E92 M3 engine has so much character and I find every drive an 'occasion'. The fact that one has to work a little harder for the performance than one would with a heavily torque-laden engine is what I like about the V8 (although I appreciate that others dislike the V8 precisely because of this). It's not really about absolute performance but rather how the performance makes me feel.
I certainly won't be swapping my M3 for one of the turbo-charged ones...
A pleasure that you have to work for is all the more rewarding than one that is just too easily accessible.
Toblerone for breakfast lunch and dinner would put me off chocolate....
The new one has lost that USP.
Jazzer said:
I have to agree with King Billy's sentiments.
This is based on having an M car and an R at my disposal, not reading what others say in magazines.
There are very few cars that would touch an R down a back road with bumps and cambers, tight bends.
And that's in the dry.
The M3s and M4s are not in that group of cars, plain and simple.
I think they're crap, with poor ride/handling (all over the place when things get bumpy), with the most grating engine sound.
I was shocked at how bad the one I had was.
Clanger for sure in my opinion......just look at how the prices are tumbling already.
Horse for courses I suppose. I'm not a fanboy of the new M3/4 because like the poster above I like an NA car and a high-revving high output-per-litre one at that. I'm not saying the new car doesn't have its faults either. But, one of the things I keep hearing about 4WD (especially in relation to Audi) is that it makes it so easy to drive everywhere at ten tenths but for me that robs me of an important element of the whole equation - the feeling that I'm having to try to get the best out of the car. Where's the fun, beyond the initial honeymoon period, of just being able to nail a car everywhere regardless of surface/conditions? That's why they are so dull. Useful for many but uninspiring for many others. This is based on having an M car and an R at my disposal, not reading what others say in magazines.
There are very few cars that would touch an R down a back road with bumps and cambers, tight bends.
And that's in the dry.
The M3s and M4s are not in that group of cars, plain and simple.
I think they're crap, with poor ride/handling (all over the place when things get bumpy), with the most grating engine sound.
I was shocked at how bad the one I had was.
Clanger for sure in my opinion......just look at how the prices are tumbling already.
Unless it was really wet I still think a Golf R would get left standing by a new M3/4 though (and I have driven both). Well it would if there were any kind of straight on the road in question. If it was a series of bends only then most 4WD hot hatches of the modern era would keep up with, or be quicker than, much more exotic machinery. It's a bit like asking one boxer to fight with one hand tied behind his back against his opponent.
The M3 can't be that bad - it was quicker than a Cayman S around the track Auto Express use and by a decent margin too.
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