E39 M5 Potential Purchase Advice
Discussion
Hello All,
Just recently sold my Lotus Elise, and in the process of getting my E39 540i for sale as I'm dropping back to running one car. It's taken me a long time to narrow my search and I've ended up looking at the E39 M5 v a Monaro 6.0 VXR.
To be honest I'd be happy to end up with either but from some chats in other places the Monaro looks to be the more financially sensible option, servicing is cheap, there's a great owners community and values seem to be strong but they also seem to prove reliable. The M5 however is the purchase my heart wants to make, I've loved them since the day I first saw one, I adore my 540i, just wish it had more poke and a manual gearbox. Enter the M5. Trouble is I'm hearing/reading about too many people with very expensive bills on them for my liking and my head is saying Monaro. So I wanted to reach out to guys for your experience.
I guess first question is what to pay? I'd like the best car I can get for no more than £14,000, but frankly I'd like to pay less than that and keep some fuel money for a road trip idea I've got. I looked at a supposedly excellent FBMWSH 130k miler at the weekend for £9k and it was a bit crap frankly. I'd like to hope that whatever I do get won't depreciate much, I actually made money on my Lotus and with Monaro values looking good I'm hoping the M5 is similar. It seems that £12/13k is where the good circa 100k or less cars are at, but at that price once I've racked up a good few miles over the next 2 or 3 years will it be worth anything like that?
Could some of current and ex E39 M5 owners please shed some light on the real maintenance and running costs of an E39 M5, and what I need to look for to try and ensure if I buy one it doesn't cost a fortune. I've heard people who have spent £10k in 3 years on maintenance and others who in the same time have only had to pay for 2 minor services. If the latter is more likely then my head can join my heart and a decision be made.
Just recently sold my Lotus Elise, and in the process of getting my E39 540i for sale as I'm dropping back to running one car. It's taken me a long time to narrow my search and I've ended up looking at the E39 M5 v a Monaro 6.0 VXR.
To be honest I'd be happy to end up with either but from some chats in other places the Monaro looks to be the more financially sensible option, servicing is cheap, there's a great owners community and values seem to be strong but they also seem to prove reliable. The M5 however is the purchase my heart wants to make, I've loved them since the day I first saw one, I adore my 540i, just wish it had more poke and a manual gearbox. Enter the M5. Trouble is I'm hearing/reading about too many people with very expensive bills on them for my liking and my head is saying Monaro. So I wanted to reach out to guys for your experience.
I guess first question is what to pay? I'd like the best car I can get for no more than £14,000, but frankly I'd like to pay less than that and keep some fuel money for a road trip idea I've got. I looked at a supposedly excellent FBMWSH 130k miler at the weekend for £9k and it was a bit crap frankly. I'd like to hope that whatever I do get won't depreciate much, I actually made money on my Lotus and with Monaro values looking good I'm hoping the M5 is similar. It seems that £12/13k is where the good circa 100k or less cars are at, but at that price once I've racked up a good few miles over the next 2 or 3 years will it be worth anything like that?
Could some of current and ex E39 M5 owners please shed some light on the real maintenance and running costs of an E39 M5, and what I need to look for to try and ensure if I buy one it doesn't cost a fortune. I've heard people who have spent £10k in 3 years on maintenance and others who in the same time have only had to pay for 2 minor services. If the latter is more likely then my head can join my heart and a decision be made.
I've had my M5 11 years and it's a daily driver.
15-20k miles on rear tyres. Online prices much cheaper in this size, like 100 quid a piece cheaper.
Budget £700-ish for an annual service at a decent independent. Includes fixing and replacing a few bits and bobs as it gets older e.g. brake rotors, fans.
One can of decent oil between services - £45 (keep it topped up and it'll treat you well.
Insurance won't be much more than your 540i.
15-20k miles on rear tyres. Online prices much cheaper in this size, like 100 quid a piece cheaper.
Budget £700-ish for an annual service at a decent independent. Includes fixing and replacing a few bits and bobs as it gets older e.g. brake rotors, fans.
One can of decent oil between services - £45 (keep it topped up and it'll treat you well.
Insurance won't be much more than your 540i.
Two great cars to choose from and a sensible budget.
If you buy a good E39 M5 you will indeed find the performance epic; buy a ropey, neglected one and you will more than likely have equally epic maintenance bills.
There are two ways of looking at E39 M5 ownership.
Buy a cheap one, do minimal servicing, rag the arse off it then sell it on having ticked the M5 box on your bucket list. There are plenty of so-so/poor examples out there for sale (some at incredibly optimistic prices) and you might get away with a year or two of use without massive bills. With the way values are going for these M5s you might not lose much money at resale time.
The other approach (one you seem to be intimating) is to have a sensible budget and buy a good one that's already had a load of money spent on it. Look after it & keep on top of the maintenance and you might see some significant gains at resale in a few years time (as long as you don't put a massive mileage on it). The problem is finding a good one to start with. Quite sheddy cars are often pitched at top money prices, so price isn't always a reliable indicator of quality. You need to see a few and get a proper feel for what's good.
My own personal recommendation would be to buy a pre-facelift car as this is where proper value seems to be at the moment. Most people want later cars which leads sellers into believing their below average condition post-facelift car can be pitched at top money. A good condition early car that's had a load of documented maintenance done to it will be much better value and give you the same performance. As years elapse the price differential between early and late cars will probably narrow considerably as well.
Realistic maintenance costs? Dan at Munich Legends reckoned you need to budget an average of £1k per year (in 2013 when I almost bought one from him). That's not unrealistic given that just replacing all the friction surfaces of the brakes will cost circa £1k (maybe as low as £800 if you shop wisely). The suspension needs costly fettling with new arms, bushes etc at 60-70k mile intervals to avoid the all too common (and misunderstood) so-called "brake" judder/shimmy. And that's just the front axle.
There are a total of 21 arms, 'ball joints', links & bushes on the rear axle, roll bar and sub-frame (includes trailing arms bushes) on the rear axle, all of which affect how the car drives in one way or another. Sooner or later they'll need replacing if you want to maintain the driving and ride dynamics these cars are best known for.
Add a clutch, guibo (propshaft flex disk), some gearbox mounts, steering tie rods....then there are engine sensors, thermostat etc to change to keep the engine performance on song. VANOS can be noisy and occasionally give trouble but less than you'd imagine.
Sometimes how much you spend depends on how OCD you are....there's quite a lot of 'preventative' maintenance done by some fussy owners, me included.
£1k a year over a period is about right but some cars will need £3k spending on them immediately after purchase in order to make them perform in the way they were designed to. Buy a good one and the immediate outlay should be less. Realistic consumption is 19 to 26mpg - less than 19 if you're hammering it mercilessly, a little more than 26 if at steady motorway speed limit.
The upside is that the engine is robust and will do 200k miles, with 300k not unheard of with intensive servicing - the engine on most will probably outlive the rest of the car. However, red-line it frequently and you'll bork the rod bearings sooner or later. Rust can be an issue but these are 14-15yr old cars now and suffer in the same way as other quality cars of the same/similar vintage.
If you do buy an E39 M5 find yourself a good indy garage, or a really good local garage with high technical capability, as there are proper savings to be made on regular servicing and straightforward maintenance issues. My experience is that the service dept of franchised dealers will pull your pants down time after time (and occasionally ask you to bend over as well).
If you buy a good E39 M5 you will indeed find the performance epic; buy a ropey, neglected one and you will more than likely have equally epic maintenance bills.
There are two ways of looking at E39 M5 ownership.
Buy a cheap one, do minimal servicing, rag the arse off it then sell it on having ticked the M5 box on your bucket list. There are plenty of so-so/poor examples out there for sale (some at incredibly optimistic prices) and you might get away with a year or two of use without massive bills. With the way values are going for these M5s you might not lose much money at resale time.
The other approach (one you seem to be intimating) is to have a sensible budget and buy a good one that's already had a load of money spent on it. Look after it & keep on top of the maintenance and you might see some significant gains at resale in a few years time (as long as you don't put a massive mileage on it). The problem is finding a good one to start with. Quite sheddy cars are often pitched at top money prices, so price isn't always a reliable indicator of quality. You need to see a few and get a proper feel for what's good.
My own personal recommendation would be to buy a pre-facelift car as this is where proper value seems to be at the moment. Most people want later cars which leads sellers into believing their below average condition post-facelift car can be pitched at top money. A good condition early car that's had a load of documented maintenance done to it will be much better value and give you the same performance. As years elapse the price differential between early and late cars will probably narrow considerably as well.
Realistic maintenance costs? Dan at Munich Legends reckoned you need to budget an average of £1k per year (in 2013 when I almost bought one from him). That's not unrealistic given that just replacing all the friction surfaces of the brakes will cost circa £1k (maybe as low as £800 if you shop wisely). The suspension needs costly fettling with new arms, bushes etc at 60-70k mile intervals to avoid the all too common (and misunderstood) so-called "brake" judder/shimmy. And that's just the front axle.
There are a total of 21 arms, 'ball joints', links & bushes on the rear axle, roll bar and sub-frame (includes trailing arms bushes) on the rear axle, all of which affect how the car drives in one way or another. Sooner or later they'll need replacing if you want to maintain the driving and ride dynamics these cars are best known for.
Add a clutch, guibo (propshaft flex disk), some gearbox mounts, steering tie rods....then there are engine sensors, thermostat etc to change to keep the engine performance on song. VANOS can be noisy and occasionally give trouble but less than you'd imagine.
Sometimes how much you spend depends on how OCD you are....there's quite a lot of 'preventative' maintenance done by some fussy owners, me included.
£1k a year over a period is about right but some cars will need £3k spending on them immediately after purchase in order to make them perform in the way they were designed to. Buy a good one and the immediate outlay should be less. Realistic consumption is 19 to 26mpg - less than 19 if you're hammering it mercilessly, a little more than 26 if at steady motorway speed limit.
The upside is that the engine is robust and will do 200k miles, with 300k not unheard of with intensive servicing - the engine on most will probably outlive the rest of the car. However, red-line it frequently and you'll bork the rod bearings sooner or later. Rust can be an issue but these are 14-15yr old cars now and suffer in the same way as other quality cars of the same/similar vintage.
If you do buy an E39 M5 find yourself a good indy garage, or a really good local garage with high technical capability, as there are proper savings to be made on regular servicing and straightforward maintenance issues. My experience is that the service dept of franchised dealers will pull your pants down time after time (and occasionally ask you to bend over as well).
Edited by Depthhoar on Monday 24th November 17:30
petrolveins said:
Hello All,
Just recently sold my Lotus Elise, and in the process of getting my E39 540i for sale as I'm dropping back to running one car. It's taken me a long time to narrow my search and I've ended up looking at the E39 M5 v a Monaro 6.0 VXR.
To be honest I'd be happy to end up with either but from some chats in other places the Monaro looks to be the more financially sensible option, servicing is cheap, there's a great owners community and values seem to be strong but they also seem to prove reliable. The M5 however is the purchase my heart wants to make, I've loved them since the day I first saw one, I adore my 540i, just wish it had more poke and a manual gearbox. Enter the M5. Trouble is I'm hearing/reading about too many people with very expensive bills on them for my liking and my head is saying Monaro. So I wanted to reach out to guys for your experience.
I guess first question is what to pay? I'd like the best car I can get for no more than £14,000, but frankly I'd like to pay less than that and keep some fuel money for a road trip idea I've got. I looked at a supposedly excellent FBMWSH 130k miler at the weekend for £9k and it was a bit crap frankly. I'd like to hope that whatever I do get won't depreciate much, I actually made money on my Lotus and with Monaro values looking good I'm hoping the M5 is similar. It seems that £12/13k is where the good circa 100k or less cars are at, but at that price once I've racked up a good few miles over the next 2 or 3 years will it be worth anything like that?
Could some of current and ex E39 M5 owners please shed some light on the real maintenance and running costs of an E39 M5, and what I need to look for to try and ensure if I buy one it doesn't cost a fortune. I've heard people who have spent £10k in 3 years on maintenance and others who in the same time have only had to pay for 2 minor services. If the latter is more likely then my head can join my heart and a decision be made.
Drive both before making the decision. I have been out in my E39 M5 on runs with Monaros before and the M5 was far better damp'ed and a fair bit quicker point to point simply due to better balance and poise. I would expect that whole life running costs would be similar as there are a lot more specialist BMW service agents out there. Just recently sold my Lotus Elise, and in the process of getting my E39 540i for sale as I'm dropping back to running one car. It's taken me a long time to narrow my search and I've ended up looking at the E39 M5 v a Monaro 6.0 VXR.
To be honest I'd be happy to end up with either but from some chats in other places the Monaro looks to be the more financially sensible option, servicing is cheap, there's a great owners community and values seem to be strong but they also seem to prove reliable. The M5 however is the purchase my heart wants to make, I've loved them since the day I first saw one, I adore my 540i, just wish it had more poke and a manual gearbox. Enter the M5. Trouble is I'm hearing/reading about too many people with very expensive bills on them for my liking and my head is saying Monaro. So I wanted to reach out to guys for your experience.
I guess first question is what to pay? I'd like the best car I can get for no more than £14,000, but frankly I'd like to pay less than that and keep some fuel money for a road trip idea I've got. I looked at a supposedly excellent FBMWSH 130k miler at the weekend for £9k and it was a bit crap frankly. I'd like to hope that whatever I do get won't depreciate much, I actually made money on my Lotus and with Monaro values looking good I'm hoping the M5 is similar. It seems that £12/13k is where the good circa 100k or less cars are at, but at that price once I've racked up a good few miles over the next 2 or 3 years will it be worth anything like that?
Could some of current and ex E39 M5 owners please shed some light on the real maintenance and running costs of an E39 M5, and what I need to look for to try and ensure if I buy one it doesn't cost a fortune. I've heard people who have spent £10k in 3 years on maintenance and others who in the same time have only had to pay for 2 minor services. If the latter is more likely then my head can join my heart and a decision be made.
You should get a very nice car for £10-11k that has had all of the suspension and driveline components replaced. Just watch out for rust.
Our is a facelift 2000 X with 125K on it, owned it for 3 years, bought with 112K on it, used as a 4th car.
Its needed
1 set tyres
3 services
1 battery (Bosche 5 year warranty jobbie)
1 electric window motor
some suspension bits
front brakes have been the biggy cost wise, as the discs are expensive.
The running costs have been offset my the appreciation in it value.
Been in the trade selling exotic stuff mostly, im not one to go overboard on praise, but they are a serious bit of kit and I cant think of any other car at this level that's so good.
(I bought a 840 ci sport recently, my Mrs drove it and said its ok, but quote " doesnt go too well does it, and the engine is crap compared to the M5")
I had the same choice a few years back. Both a great cars. In the end i went with the Monaro as it was newer and came with a Network Q warranty. The one i bought also had everything from the Walkinshaw catalogue flung at it, bar a super charger.
I don't regret the decision one bit, but i would still like to own an E39 M5 at some point.
What i will say is that the Monaro is not for the shy and retiring. It sticks out like a sore thumb. It gets attention and people will want to stop you and talk about it. The M5 on the other hand is more discrete. This could be a good or bad thing depending on how you look at it.
I had the clutch slave cylinder on the Monaro fail. It's inside the bell housing, so it also meant a new clutch was required. It was all done under warranty. It is a known weak spot. Think the warranty bill for that was just over 2K.
Also Vauxhall dealers haven't a clue about these cars, so if you go the Monaro route find a specialist like Monkfish or walkinshaw.
Good luck with whatever you choose. I don't think you can go wrong either way.
I don't regret the decision one bit, but i would still like to own an E39 M5 at some point.
What i will say is that the Monaro is not for the shy and retiring. It sticks out like a sore thumb. It gets attention and people will want to stop you and talk about it. The M5 on the other hand is more discrete. This could be a good or bad thing depending on how you look at it.
I had the clutch slave cylinder on the Monaro fail. It's inside the bell housing, so it also meant a new clutch was required. It was all done under warranty. It is a known weak spot. Think the warranty bill for that was just over 2K.
Also Vauxhall dealers haven't a clue about these cars, so if you go the Monaro route find a specialist like Monkfish or walkinshaw.
Good luck with whatever you choose. I don't think you can go wrong either way.
I ran an M5 for just under 4 years and 50K miles, in that time it needed the following:
3sets of rear tyres - £900
2 sets of front tyres - £500
New clutch and flywheel - £1k
Front brake discs and pads -£800
Rear brake discs and pads -£200 - Self fitted
Front TCAs - £700
Differential oil seals, rear anti roll bar brackets and drop links -£600
Inlet cam position sensors - £360 Self fitted
Exhaust cam position sensors -£360 Self fitted
Air flow sensors x 2 - £300 Self fitted
Exhaust o2 sensors- £400
Interior blower resistor - £85 self fitted (aka hedgehog)
Spark plugs - £65 Self fitted
Servicing and oil approx - £1200 (mine used one litre of oil every 3k miles, many are much worse)
I used Phil Crouch at CPC for servicing and the things I didn't fancy doing my self or that needed special tools etc. Some of my prices may be a bit out as it was a few years ago and I'm working from memory.
I sold the car at around 110k miles, by this time it was in desperate need of a thorough suspension overhaul and was part of what prompted me to sell it as which ever way I added it up I couldn't see much change from £6k if I got the job done using genuine BMW parts and carefully aligned after, in hindsight I shuld have got it done as I still haven't driven or owned a car that I liked as much, it was a fabulous long distance car and also superbly poised on smaller interesting roads when the suspension was in a good state. It was also ready for another set of front brake discs and pads.
In all the time I had it the car never let me down.
Driving short journeys it would average around 18 mpg, on a run 27 mpg was possible.
If I was buying another one I'd find the best car body and interior wise for a reasonable price I could and then factor in costs of getting it just right or buy a car with a fist full of bills from someone like Phil Crouch. I have looked at a few recently thinking I might get another but every one I have seen has been a complete dog and not worth anything like the asking price. If I found the right car I'd have another without hesitation.
Happy hunting
Ian
3sets of rear tyres - £900
2 sets of front tyres - £500
New clutch and flywheel - £1k
Front brake discs and pads -£800
Rear brake discs and pads -£200 - Self fitted
Front TCAs - £700
Differential oil seals, rear anti roll bar brackets and drop links -£600
Inlet cam position sensors - £360 Self fitted
Exhaust cam position sensors -£360 Self fitted
Air flow sensors x 2 - £300 Self fitted
Exhaust o2 sensors- £400
Interior blower resistor - £85 self fitted (aka hedgehog)
Spark plugs - £65 Self fitted
Servicing and oil approx - £1200 (mine used one litre of oil every 3k miles, many are much worse)
I used Phil Crouch at CPC for servicing and the things I didn't fancy doing my self or that needed special tools etc. Some of my prices may be a bit out as it was a few years ago and I'm working from memory.
I sold the car at around 110k miles, by this time it was in desperate need of a thorough suspension overhaul and was part of what prompted me to sell it as which ever way I added it up I couldn't see much change from £6k if I got the job done using genuine BMW parts and carefully aligned after, in hindsight I shuld have got it done as I still haven't driven or owned a car that I liked as much, it was a fabulous long distance car and also superbly poised on smaller interesting roads when the suspension was in a good state. It was also ready for another set of front brake discs and pads.
In all the time I had it the car never let me down.
Driving short journeys it would average around 18 mpg, on a run 27 mpg was possible.
If I was buying another one I'd find the best car body and interior wise for a reasonable price I could and then factor in costs of getting it just right or buy a car with a fist full of bills from someone like Phil Crouch. I have looked at a few recently thinking I might get another but every one I have seen has been a complete dog and not worth anything like the asking price. If I found the right car I'd have another without hesitation.
Happy hunting
Ian
Divorce !In terms of getting from a to b an e39 m5 is unlikely to let you down and be reasonably cheap (fuelling aside) to run.
However, keeping on top of getting from a to b with maximum performance efficiency and razor sharp handling can be a money pit.
Personally I'd do what I did - grab a facelift towards the middle of the market and go in eyes wide open. There have been so many posts on here from people buying so called perfect examples for top dollar - which have had a longer list of problems than mine ever has at half the price.
I'd say overall reasonably cheap to run but they're expensive to keep in A1 condition. So depends how bothered you are about a car being less than 100%.
On the other hand if you can find one in budget that's had a recent suspension refresh, rear diff seals sorted, all engine management sensors (MAF / CPS') recently replaced, fuel pump, thermostat, fan, fan clutch and temperature sensors overhauled and maybe even a respray / rust treated then you'd be avoiding some of the big annoyances.
If you're really unlucky you'll hit vanos or rod bearings - but vanos isn't so bad to get sorted these days.
I chipped in on your other thread. But to be more succinct if I had my time over and had to choose I'd take the Monaro. E39 is an outstanding car but it's a little too perfect. It lacks that raw edge the Monaro has and I miss that.
However, keeping on top of getting from a to b with maximum performance efficiency and razor sharp handling can be a money pit.
Personally I'd do what I did - grab a facelift towards the middle of the market and go in eyes wide open. There have been so many posts on here from people buying so called perfect examples for top dollar - which have had a longer list of problems than mine ever has at half the price.
I'd say overall reasonably cheap to run but they're expensive to keep in A1 condition. So depends how bothered you are about a car being less than 100%.
On the other hand if you can find one in budget that's had a recent suspension refresh, rear diff seals sorted, all engine management sensors (MAF / CPS') recently replaced, fuel pump, thermostat, fan, fan clutch and temperature sensors overhauled and maybe even a respray / rust treated then you'd be avoiding some of the big annoyances.
If you're really unlucky you'll hit vanos or rod bearings - but vanos isn't so bad to get sorted these days.
I chipped in on your other thread. But to be more succinct if I had my time over and had to choose I'd take the Monaro. E39 is an outstanding car but it's a little too perfect. It lacks that raw edge the Monaro has and I miss that.
Thanks for all the replies so far guys.
I think I need to get a longer test drive in both. Both have things I'm not keen on, but both have different strengths. The part of me that adores my 540i says M5, but the part of my head that loved the Lotus for the looks it got and the noise it made with decat and sports exhaust is making me want the Monaro with a full Wortec system.
I think I need to get a longer test drive in both. Both have things I'm not keen on, but both have different strengths. The part of me that adores my 540i says M5, but the part of my head that loved the Lotus for the looks it got and the noise it made with decat and sports exhaust is making me want the Monaro with a full Wortec system.
For a ghetto noise mod on the M5 you can chop off the back boxes. A couple of hundred quid from any decent exhaust fabricator. If they do it properly you can be left with the original boxes to be put back on easily if necessary (resale).
Failing that there are, I'm sure you're more than aware, aftermarket exhausts for the E39.
I wouldn't let the noise be the deciding factor though of course it will have a part to play in the budgeting.
If you do go for another drive in the E39, and you haven’t already, be sure to wring it's neck revs wise (and stick it in sport mode). Even on a stock system the sound gets very tasty indeed. One of the big differences between the E39 and the Monaro - the M5 V8 revs much higher.
Failing that there are, I'm sure you're more than aware, aftermarket exhausts for the E39.
I wouldn't let the noise be the deciding factor though of course it will have a part to play in the budgeting.
If you do go for another drive in the E39, and you haven’t already, be sure to wring it's neck revs wise (and stick it in sport mode). Even on a stock system the sound gets very tasty indeed. One of the big differences between the E39 and the Monaro - the M5 V8 revs much higher.
eztiger said:
For a ghetto noise mod on the M5 you can chop off the back boxes. A couple of hundred quid from any decent exhaust fabricator. If they do it properly you can be left with the original boxes to be put back on easily if necessary (resale).
Failing that there are, I'm sure you're more than aware, aftermarket exhausts for the E39.
I wouldn't let the noise be the deciding factor though of course it will have a part to play in the budgeting.
If you do go for another drive in the E39, and you haven’t already, be sure to wring it's neck revs wise (and stick it in sport mode). Even on a stock system the sound gets very tasty indeed. One of the big differences between the E39 and the Monaro - the M5 V8 revs much higher.
Yes, all of this /\.Failing that there are, I'm sure you're more than aware, aftermarket exhausts for the E39.
I wouldn't let the noise be the deciding factor though of course it will have a part to play in the budgeting.
If you do go for another drive in the E39, and you haven’t already, be sure to wring it's neck revs wise (and stick it in sport mode). Even on a stock system the sound gets very tasty indeed. One of the big differences between the E39 and the Monaro - the M5 V8 revs much higher.
The engine really comes alive on the M5 above 3500rpm and is something else above 4000.
When test driving it press the sport button at 40mph in 3rd gear and you should feel a distinct bump/surge (the throttle response sharpens and steering weights up a little with the sport button depressed). If you don't get this sensation then the MAFs and/or oxygen sensors and/or cam sensors are past their best. The first E39 M5 I test drove had little or no response on the sport button and I came away wondering what all the M5 hype was about. The next was properly sorted and quite different.
The exhaust/muffler delete eztiger refers to is a common mod and generally well received by those who like a sophisticated V8 noise when the throttle is opened. Some muffler deletes drone a bit at motorway cruising speeds though some don't, apparently. Mine did so I put the OE back boxes on but I do miss that full-throated V8 noise at times.
Russ Fellows makes custom back boxes for the E39 M5 that he will 'tune' for loudness for you and is pretty good value at £650-£700. Some other (but not all) aftermarket back boxes are just dummy boxes with no baffles and make a not dissimilar noise to the simple - and cheaper - muffler delete. Russ's custom boxes are beautifully made with proper hangers which fit the car perfectly: saw them fitted on an M5 & looked great.
Depthhoar said:
Russ Fellows makes custom back boxes for the E39 M5 that he will 'tune' for loudness for you and is pretty good value at £650-£700. Some other (but not all) aftermarket back boxes are just dummy boxes with no baffles and make a not dissimilar noise to the simple - and cheaper - muffler delete. Russ's custom boxes are beautifully made with proper hangers which fit the car perfectly: saw them fitted on an M5 & looked great.
Do you have a link for this / Russ?To be honest my biggest issue with the E39 is rust. I'm terrified of it and terrified of getting a proper professional opinion on the costs involved to fix it. Which is a faintly ridiculous situation to be in - but sadly how my mind works.
I'm currently wrestling with selling up and getting into an XFR or C63 to address those issues (at cost!) or just 'writing off the M5' in terms of value and running it until it falls to bits. I'm not sure my car OCD will let me do the latter
Keeping the M5 would let my budget scoop up a caterham for added fun. The very definition of first world problems!
Edited by eztiger on Tuesday 25th November 13:27
eztiger said:
Do you have a link for this / Russ?
To be honest my biggest issue with the E39 is rust. I'm terrified of it and terrified of getting a proper professional opinion on the costs involved to fix it. Which is a faintly ridiculous situation to be in - but sadly how my mind works.
I'm currently wrestling with selling up and getting into an XFR or C63 to address those issues (at cost!) or just 'writing off the M5' in terms of value and running it until it falls to bits. I'm not sure my car OCD will let me do the latter
Keeping the M5 would let my budget scoop up a caterham for added fun. The very definition of first world problems!
If you find the right car then rust should not be an issue. Check the jacking points first as this is where the greatest repair cost would be. Most of the other rust points could be repaired at a sensible cost.To be honest my biggest issue with the E39 is rust. I'm terrified of it and terrified of getting a proper professional opinion on the costs involved to fix it. Which is a faintly ridiculous situation to be in - but sadly how my mind works.
I'm currently wrestling with selling up and getting into an XFR or C63 to address those issues (at cost!) or just 'writing off the M5' in terms of value and running it until it falls to bits. I'm not sure my car OCD will let me do the latter
Keeping the M5 would let my budget scoop up a caterham for added fun. The very definition of first world problems!
Edited by eztiger on Tuesday 25th November 13:27
For reference, make sure the C63 is warrantied as the 6.3 engine suffers from catastrophic head bolt failure. There is an American law suit for this issue. The XFR suffers from diff failure which is less costly. Both will suffer from much greater depreciation. Get that E39 M5 bought!
Hedgetrimmer said:
If you find the right car then rust should not be an issue. Check the jacking points first as this is where the greatest repair cost would be. Most of the other rust points could be repaired at a sensible cost.
I already have one - how sensible is sensible? 
Hedgetrimmer said:
For reference, make sure the C63 is warrantied as the 6.3 engine suffers from catastrophic head bolt failure. There is an American law suit for this issue. The XFR suffers from diff failure which is less costly. Both will suffer from much greater depreciation. Get that E39 M5 bought!
Yep - facelift C63 (or late 2011 post afflicted engine serial #) should be ok though.Sorry OP for thread derail.
Edited by eztiger on Tuesday 25th November 13:50
eztiger said:
Do you have a link for this / Russ?
To be honest my biggest issue with the E39 is rust. I'm terrified of it and terrified of getting a proper professional opinion on the costs involved to fix it. Which is a faintly ridiculous situation to be in - but sadly how my mind works.
I'm currently wrestling with selling up and getting into an XFR or C63 to address those issues (at cost!) or just 'writing off the M5' in terms of value and running it until it falls to bits. I'm not sure my car OCD will let me do the latter
Keeping the M5 would let my budget scoop up a caterham for added fun. The very definition of first world problems!
Russ Fellows exhaust here:To be honest my biggest issue with the E39 is rust. I'm terrified of it and terrified of getting a proper professional opinion on the costs involved to fix it. Which is a faintly ridiculous situation to be in - but sadly how my mind works.
I'm currently wrestling with selling up and getting into an XFR or C63 to address those issues (at cost!) or just 'writing off the M5' in terms of value and running it until it falls to bits. I'm not sure my car OCD will let me do the latter
Keeping the M5 would let my budget scoop up a caterham for added fun. The very definition of first world problems!
Edited by eztiger on Tuesday 25th November 13:27
http://forum.bmw5.co.uk/topic/101399-russ-fellows-...
I contacted him in August when he quoted the price in my post although he doesn't seem to list the back boxes on his website. Back then he said he was soon to go into hospital for a hernia operation and in the end I didn't follow up my back boxes enquiry. There's a video in the link above that gives an impression of what the boxes sound like. I've heard them in person on another M5 and they sound a little more pronounced than on the vid, but as I said above he will tune them to your individual preference so the ones I heard may have been specced louder. It was a really nice noise, not at all hooligan and no drone, too.
Rust. My 530d is a complete mess in places with the tin worm but it gets used throughout the winter on some of the most heavily salted roads in the UK (Scottish Highlands nr Aviemore) so it's to be expected. The M5 is an SE England-sourced car and is much, much better but it's a garage queen over the winter and will never see the salt again. There's an interesting thread on the M5board about corrosion, here:
http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/e39-m5-e52-z8-dis...
I'm going to have my M5's jacking points looked at next year just to be sure everything's OK. There's comment on some forums that cutting out rotten jacking points and welding in newly fabricated ones isn't too ruinous on the wallet as long as you choose your welding guy well. However if rust has badly infected the sills as well then you may be in for a proper financial rogering.
There are various good value mobile welders who specialise in this sort of work & some get good reviews on classic car forums. Worth a thought?
I think they will all rust unless you're very lucky. To sort the rust out on mine properly is going to cost a lot, but I was aware of the rust when I bought it 2 1/2 years ago. Rear arches and front of the side skirts are the bad bits on mine. Few patches around the boot lights and boot surround as well. That being said mine has done 185k (2001) and I suspect wasn't really treated that well at times. It's a great car but I know to return it to it's former glory is going to cost a fortune however it's money I'm seriously thinking of spending.
I wouldn't buy one unless I could get it inspected. To the OP if you find one there are some good places which could check over any car you may want to buy.
I wouldn't buy one unless I could get it inspected. To the OP if you find one there are some good places which could check over any car you may want to buy.
Mine is suffering the dreaded rust around the jacking points and I think it may end up going to a breaker to help other cars live on.
Also, so there is no way I'd be happy riveting the jacking area to the car. It is weld it or not bother!
Also, so there is no way I'd be happy riveting the jacking area to the car. It is weld it or not bother!
Edited by TheAngryDog on Tuesday 25th November 23:03
I just had a full respray on mine last year. Two new genuine front wings fitted, they weren't to bad but I wanted it to be right. My jacking points, rear arches and even back panel was rust free and it was mainly stone chips which had developed for longer than they should have.
Someone had also keyed it down the nearside so a full respray was the only solution.
I also had a new screen fitted at the same time as it had to come out anyway.
Total bill..4k
It's rust free now though. The only thing is my hearts not in it now and I fancy something else.
Someone had also keyed it down the nearside so a full respray was the only solution.
I also had a new screen fitted at the same time as it had to come out anyway.
Total bill..4k
It's rust free now though. The only thing is my hearts not in it now and I fancy something else.
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