E39 M5 Potential Purchase Advice
Discussion
Have a look at my profile for some insight although bear in mind I am fairly anal and a lot has been preventative. I wouldn't have had half the stuff done if I wasn't planning on keeping it for a long time. Maintenance would snowball if you allowed it to. Death by a thousand cuts and all that.
Your best bet is to find one from an enthusiast owner and pay attention to condition over mileage. Regardless of how nice a car you find, it would be safer to expect bits and bobs needing done as a minimum, this isn't an 'oil change a year and nothing else' kind of car. Source your own parts via. the likes of Eurocarparts/Carparts4less, bmminiparts and allgermanparts and you will save an absolute packet. Case in point being the suspension refresh I had recently with OEM lemforder parts from Carparts4less. Could comfortably have doubled the parts prices going to a dealer.
But f
k it, you only live once and you've got to pay to play. It's maintenance or depreciation, take your pick.
Your best bet is to find one from an enthusiast owner and pay attention to condition over mileage. Regardless of how nice a car you find, it would be safer to expect bits and bobs needing done as a minimum, this isn't an 'oil change a year and nothing else' kind of car. Source your own parts via. the likes of Eurocarparts/Carparts4less, bmminiparts and allgermanparts and you will save an absolute packet. Case in point being the suspension refresh I had recently with OEM lemforder parts from Carparts4less. Could comfortably have doubled the parts prices going to a dealer.
But f
k it, you only live once and you've got to pay to play. It's maintenance or depreciation, take your pick. Edited by Patrick Bateman on Wednesday 26th November 07:40
I brought a Dog a few years ago (despite looking at several) and in the end it had too many issues so I part exchanged it for a Merc. I brought a high mileage 1 owner car that needed a service, clutch and discs and pads all round. I factored this in but other problems came up (new fuel pump, issues with brake judder that I never got to the bottom of, sump leaking and a few rust spots).
However, it was an Epic car and I miss it a lot. Ive never had a car that can hustle down a B road one minute then cruise at MW speeds in such comfort. I loved the in gear acceleration.
The muffler delete / sports zaust is a must.
As much as I love my Chimaera a nice M5 is still a very tempting option, esp because we can use it as a family car.
However, it was an Epic car and I miss it a lot. Ive never had a car that can hustle down a B road one minute then cruise at MW speeds in such comfort. I loved the in gear acceleration.
The muffler delete / sports zaust is a must.
As much as I love my Chimaera a nice M5 is still a very tempting option, esp because we can use it as a family car.
TheAngryDog said:
Mine is suffering the dreaded rust around the jacking points and I think it may end up going to a breaker to help other cars live on.
Also, so there is no way I'd be happy riveting the jacking area to the car. It is weld it or not bother!
It was myself that contacted you via forum 5 with the CLK55, no joy on yours yet? Thought it'd fly out the door! Also, so there is no way I'd be happy riveting the jacking area to the car. It is weld it or not bother!
Edited by TheAngryDog on Tuesday 25th November 23:03
How much does it cost to get that kind of work done? Been offered £4450 PX against an M5 on my CLK but I'm still dubious. Would rather have a forum car where atleast you know a bit of its history! Sad that the CLK hasn't sold or I'd be on my way to yours!
ETA, this is as good a place as any I guess, what's the opinion on this? Planning to view it friday
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2014...
The wording IS A BIT SHOUTY but dealer seems nice enough, says the car has no rust and full BMW sh. He's had the wheels done, the leather cleaned and put some tyres on it.
Looks like the outside air temp is broken and I don't like all the funny plates or carbon badges.
Edited by S3_Graham on Wednesday 26th November 11:42
TheAngryDog said:
Mine is suffering the dreaded rust around the jacking points and I think it may end up going to a breaker to help other cars live on.
Also, so there is no way I'd be happy riveting the jacking area to the car. It is weld it or not bother!
YHPMAlso, so there is no way I'd be happy riveting the jacking area to the car. It is weld it or not bother!
Edited by TheAngryDog on Tuesday 25th November 23:03
S3_Graham said:
TheAngryDog said:
Mine is suffering the dreaded rust around the jacking points and I think it may end up going to a breaker to help other cars live on.
Also, so there is no way I'd be happy riveting the jacking area to the car. It is weld it or not bother!
It was myself that contacted you via forum 5 with the CLK55, no joy on yours yet? Thought it'd fly out the door! Also, so there is no way I'd be happy riveting the jacking area to the car. It is weld it or not bother!
Edited by TheAngryDog on Tuesday 25th November 23:03
How much does it cost to get that kind of work done? Been offered £4450 PX against an M5 on my CLK but I'm still dubious. Would rather have a forum car where atleast you know a bit of its history! Sad that the CLK hasn't sold or I'd be on my way to yours!
ETA, this is as good a place as any I guess, what's the opinion on this? Planning to view it friday
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2014...
The wording IS A BIT SHOUTY but dealer seems nice enough, says the car has no rust and full BMW sh. He's had the wheels done, the leather cleaned and put some tyres on it.
Looks like the outside air temp is broken and I don't like all the funny plates or carbon badges.
Edited by S3_Graham on Wednesday 26th November 11:42
Sounds like a decent price for the p/x. I think that car has been for sale for a while though, and if you look at it, at the mileage and age, I would want to see receipts for the MAF's, Lambda Sensors, CPS's etc. I'd also want to see good tyres on it, and I believe it is wearing Dunlops, which makes a refreshing change! It's got the common dash pixel issue, but thats a £100 job to sort which is small change. It looks like it may have had some paint on the rear end below the number plate which is no bad thing, probably means if there was any rust it's been dealt with. Nothing much puts me off that car really.
Expect to have to refresh suspension components as well.
Back in the day there was a saying when buying a Cosworth - When you buy one, you should have enough money to be able to buy it twice. Perhaps the same could be said of E39 M5's?
Re my car - I have had a lot of interest in it, which tells me it is too cheap!
Vixpy1 said:
TheAngryDog said:
Mine is suffering the dreaded rust around the jacking points and I think it may end up going to a breaker to help other cars live on.
Also, so there is no way I'd be happy riveting the jacking area to the car. It is weld it or not bother!
YHPMAlso, so there is no way I'd be happy riveting the jacking area to the car. It is weld it or not bother!
Edited by TheAngryDog on Tuesday 25th November 23:03
There's certainly some dogs out there so take your time, look at as many as you can and buy on condition - a cheap one can easily cost enough to put right that it ends up more expensive than a more pricey one. The cheapest one I looked at was roughly half the price of the one I bought in the end but the one I bought (facelight, on just 61k at the time) has needed nothing since other than a new set of boots (and a door seal that was shot when I got it).
As others have said though, don't assume that the costliest examples are guaranteed to warrant the cost - there were a lot of people asking top dollar for less than great examples when I was looking and that was before the recent firming in prices that may have drawn other chancers into the ring.
As others have said though, don't assume that the costliest examples are guaranteed to warrant the cost - there were a lot of people asking top dollar for less than great examples when I was looking and that was before the recent firming in prices that may have drawn other chancers into the ring.
TheAngryDog said:
Hi Graham,
Sounds like a decent price for the p/x. I think that car has been for sale for a while though, and if you look at it, at the mileage and age, I would want to see receipts for the MAF's, Lambda Sensors, CPS's etc. I'd also want to see good tyres on it, and I believe it is wearing Dunlops, which makes a refreshing change! It's got the common dash pixel issue, but thats a £100 job to sort which is small change. It looks like it may have had some paint on the rear end below the number plate which is no bad thing, probably means if there was any rust it's been dealt with. Nothing much puts me off that car really.
Expect to have to refresh suspension components as well.
Back in the day there was a saying when buying a Cosworth - When you buy one, you should have enough money to be able to buy it twice. Perhaps the same could be said of E39 M5's?
Re my car - I have had a lot of interest in it, which tells me it is too cheap!
Thanks for the info. I had the pixel issue fixed on my old 530 sport. Are MAF's , CPS or lambda's costly parts or £100 items like other normal cars!Sounds like a decent price for the p/x. I think that car has been for sale for a while though, and if you look at it, at the mileage and age, I would want to see receipts for the MAF's, Lambda Sensors, CPS's etc. I'd also want to see good tyres on it, and I believe it is wearing Dunlops, which makes a refreshing change! It's got the common dash pixel issue, but thats a £100 job to sort which is small change. It looks like it may have had some paint on the rear end below the number plate which is no bad thing, probably means if there was any rust it's been dealt with. Nothing much puts me off that car really.
Expect to have to refresh suspension components as well.
Back in the day there was a saying when buying a Cosworth - When you buy one, you should have enough money to be able to buy it twice. Perhaps the same could be said of E39 M5's?
Re my car - I have had a lot of interest in it, which tells me it is too cheap!
I'm fully aware these are expensive cars to run, My AMG is hardly cheap.... £200 per wishbone was fun.
S3_Graham said:
Are MAF's , CPS or lambda's costly parts or £100 items like other normal cars!
I'm fully aware these are expensive cars to run, My AMG is hardly cheap.... £200 per wishbone was fun.
MAFs & lambda sensors are Bosch items and readily available. I got two genuine Bosch MAFs from the 'MAF Shop' in Berlin for £80 each; the lambdas can be had from ECP/CP4L at reasonable cost. Cam sensors are a bit of a crapshoot: some people swear by aftermarket generic ones, though many owners on forums seem to think the BMW OE are the only way to go having had bad experiences with cheapo ones. Changing CPSs is an awkward job you won't want to repeat too soon so maybe not worth risking generic ones, more so since there are 4 of them? (Having small hands and long thin fingers helps for that job!)I'm fully aware these are expensive cars to run, My AMG is hardly cheap.... £200 per wishbone was fun.
£200 per AMG arm...Ouch! Nothing like that if you shop for Lemforder at ECP for the M5.
But there's a good game M5 owners play that involves spending £££ or ££££-figure sums chasing down mysterious shimmy/judder/tramlining/rear-end twitchiness/steering knock involving God knows how many arms, bushes, ball joints or tie rods. (Oh, and did I mention 4 wheel alignments??)
Have no fear, all M5 owners get to play this game....sooner or later!
Depthhoar said:
S3_Graham said:
Are MAF's , CPS or lambda's costly parts or £100 items like other normal cars!
I'm fully aware these are expensive cars to run, My AMG is hardly cheap.... £200 per wishbone was fun.
MAFs & lambda sensors are Bosch items and readily available. I got two genuine Bosch MAFs from the 'MAF Shop' in Berlin for £80 each; the lambdas can be had from ECP/CP4L at reasonable cost. Cam sensors are a bit of a crapshoot: some people swear by aftermarket generic ones, though many owners on forums seem to think the BMW OE are the only way to go having had bad experiences with cheapo ones. Changing CPSs is an awkward job you won't want to repeat too soon so maybe not worth risking generic ones, more so since there are 4 of them? (Having small hands and long thin fingers helps for that job!)I'm fully aware these are expensive cars to run, My AMG is hardly cheap.... £200 per wishbone was fun.
£200 per AMG arm...Ouch! Nothing like that if you shop for Lemforder at ECP for the M5.
But there's a good game M5 owners play that involves spending £££ or ££££-figure sums chasing down mysterious shimmy/judder/tramlining/rear-end twitchiness/steering knock involving God knows how many arms, bushes, ball joints or tie rods. (Oh, and did I mention 4 wheel alignments??)
Have no fear, all M5 owners get to play this game....sooner or later!
They changed the tyres and the wishbones but I left the subframe as when he showed me they really werent that bad. Very slight movement when he prodded them with a crowbar. Its a £450 job as you have to drop the entire rear subframe and replace £50 worth of bushes...
This is half my reason for wanting to swap into an M5, I've got the same running costs and dont have the car I want
nonuts said:
Brake discs for example are BMW only if you want the brakes to actually work.
I disagree. In fact I'd avoid the OEM discs. They cost a fortunate (£542 for each front disc last I checked) for a start. Despite very gentle use, my front discs started giving a horrible judder every time I went near the middle pedal. Eventually caved and had Pagid discs fitted (and new fluid at the same time). So far, much better - but perhaps too early too tell. The brakes aren't spectacular compared to modern cars, they need working and can initially seem soft, but they will stop the car. The upside is they are nicely progressive and allow you to be smooth on and off.As I went round applying 1z gummy pfledge this morning, I debated over whether I should keep my E39. I really, really enjoy it, but it's getting so little use now due to a change in circumstances. The last owner threw the kitchen sink at it (if you can name it, it's probably been replaced); it only needs a bit more work be one the best examples out there that hasn't been garaged and imminently needing an overhaul, albeit high miles now (136k). Mostly tidying up minor rust issues and a few cosmetic pieces. The question is, whether to hold on to it and spend the money, knowing I may never get it back, or just move it on as is, but knowing I might take a hit doing so.
I hope you've just made a mistake there or you need to find a new place to get your parts. 
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Genuine-BMW-Front-Brake-...
And for what it's worth, most owners seem to stick with OEM discs unless they're properly upgrading the brakes, which, despite what some people say, are fine for road use.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Genuine-BMW-Front-Brake-...
And for what it's worth, most owners seem to stick with OEM discs unless they're properly upgrading the brakes, which, despite what some people say, are fine for road use.
Edited by Patrick Bateman on Saturday 29th November 12:07
Edited by Patrick Bateman on Saturday 29th November 12:07
I was looking at these - price has dropped slightly: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BMW-Genuine-Front-Brake-... I will admit I didn't shop around much.
The Pagid ones were just shy of £200 each fitted by M-Tek Northampton. There are all sorts of things I could have done differently but the reality was I needed the car back and I couldn't face putting the discs that were juddering back on. The OEM discs were fitted by the previous owner just before I got it. I still have them - planning on having them re-faced.
OP (to drag it back on topic): a lot of sound advice above. The issue you will have is finding a car that doesn't need something being spent on it, whether it be rust, suspension, or general wear and tear. I spend a good 9 months looking until I was most fortunate to stumble across 'my' car. It has a mountain of paper work (I need another folder), and you'll want a car with an equal amount of invoices, otherwise you'll need to assume nothing has been done, and be prepared to throw an awful lot of money at it depending on what you want to achieve. Don't be put off though, get behind the wheel and you very quickly forgive the car any number of sins, it's joyous. A small thing but check the battery - there are too many cars about with under-sized batteries, the engine needs a strong, healthy battery to turn over cleanly. It should fill the whole tray in the boot and rated well above 90Ah.
Can't recommend Phil at CPC enough, he really knows his stuff. It's a shame it's so far away (Amersham) but for anything not routine it would be my first port of call everytime.
The Pagid ones were just shy of £200 each fitted by M-Tek Northampton. There are all sorts of things I could have done differently but the reality was I needed the car back and I couldn't face putting the discs that were juddering back on. The OEM discs were fitted by the previous owner just before I got it. I still have them - planning on having them re-faced.
OP (to drag it back on topic): a lot of sound advice above. The issue you will have is finding a car that doesn't need something being spent on it, whether it be rust, suspension, or general wear and tear. I spend a good 9 months looking until I was most fortunate to stumble across 'my' car. It has a mountain of paper work (I need another folder), and you'll want a car with an equal amount of invoices, otherwise you'll need to assume nothing has been done, and be prepared to throw an awful lot of money at it depending on what you want to achieve. Don't be put off though, get behind the wheel and you very quickly forgive the car any number of sins, it's joyous. A small thing but check the battery - there are too many cars about with under-sized batteries, the engine needs a strong, healthy battery to turn over cleanly. It should fill the whole tray in the boot and rated well above 90Ah.
Can't recommend Phil at CPC enough, he really knows his stuff. It's a shame it's so far away (Amersham) but for anything not routine it would be my first port of call everytime.
Depthhoar said:
The upside is that the engine is robust and will do 200k miles, with 300k not unheard of with intensive servicing - the engine on most will probably outlive the rest of the car. However, red-line it frequently and you'll bork the rod bearings sooner or later.
Never knew that...maybe not the car for me then.Gassing Station | M Power | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff