E60 M5 remap by DMS
Discussion
hughcam said:
Reading on m3cutters forum apparantly surrey rolling road independently ran a DMS mapped E92 m3. The quoted figures of 400 - 440 bhp were actually 408 bhp on surreys rollers. That doesnt mean DMS maps are rubbish but would indicate to me that they are selling very expensive porky pies...
I only delt with them once, that was enough, what they stated and what we tested elsewhere were miles apart, not for me.
Shaoxter said:
Did you test both before and after elsewhere? To account for the fact that not all rolling roads are the same.
No 2 rolling roads are the same. Each operator sets it up differently and there are so many ways that figures can be generated. I'm just cautious of power gains so high on a naturally aspirated engine, moreso one that is already well setup in the first place.
As said though, as long as the op is happy that's all that matters.
TheAngryDog said:
Shaoxter said:
Did you test both before and after elsewhere? To account for the fact that not all rolling roads are the same.
No 2 rolling roads are the same. Each operator sets it up differently and there are so many ways that figures can be generated. The DMS results were on the same rolling road, so unless they fudged the numbers on the computer, the power gains are there.
Shaoxter said:
That's my point, so for consistency you really need a before and after on the same rolling road.
The DMS results were on the same rolling road, so unless they fudged the numbers on the computer, the power gains are there.
Numbers are very, very, very easy to fudge. Did you happen to ask why your car was low on torque? Your car barely makes standard torque after the remap?The DMS results were on the same rolling road, so unless they fudged the numbers on the computer, the power gains are there.
JMBMWM5 said:
I am afraid your right, Will at P-Torque writes the software for a lot of these cars and charges HALF the price of DMS.
That's only half the story though as DMS provide a full warranty on all their work so any issues with BMW & you're fully covered, plus you get updated maps applied FOC for up to 3yrs & that also applies to removal if required & they'll also come to you & do this work if needed & lastly if you want a true custom tune then you'll be needing a RR which they also have at their premises. Tuners are a very personal thing, but i'm happier paying for a quality product & quality service & unfortunately that's very hard to find nowadays.hughcam said:
Reading on m3cutters forum apparantly surrey rolling road independently ran a DMS mapped E92 m3. The quoted figures of 400 - 440 bhp were actually 408 bhp on surreys rollers. That doesnt mean DMS maps are rubbish but would indicate to me that they are selling very expensive porky pies...
& of course the RR at Surrey has never been called into question
As a customer i can vouch for their product & service & as far as i'm concerned it's 2nd to none but i'm sure they'll never be able to please anyone, despite their status & achievements.
I do however not buy into the RR pissing contest as you'll never get an accurate figure unless using a hub dyno as the transmission losses applied are always going to be open to question. As far as i know, DMS use the mfctrs quoted losses but i can't confirm or deny if this is correct & i'd doubt anyone else could for any tuner.
I'm only however able to vouch for cars i've had them look at & an E90 M3 isn't one of those, but the E60 M5 gains have been tested numerous times & i believe were tested by Evo a few years back. Given Evo use Surrey RR, i'd be fairly confident nothing was amiss.
Edited by W8PMC on Monday 15th December 17:03
W8PMC said:
hughcam said:
Reading on m3cutters forum apparantly surrey rolling road independently ran a DMS mapped E92 m3. The quoted figures of 400 - 440 bhp were actually 408 bhp on surreys rollers. That doesnt mean DMS maps are rubbish but would indicate to me that they are selling very expensive porky pies...
& of course the RR at Surrey has never been called into questionSir_Dave said:
Vixpy1 said:
I've only done 12000 cars...
And you're independent.Vs a tuner doing a baseline figure, tinkering with the map (& the dyno) then putting it on the rollers again
I wouldn't say so. The vendor advertises a 41bhp gain. I think it's right to remain sceptical with such figures on this sort of engine with just some software tinkering.
They advertise a 30bhp increase on the e39 as well but to get those kinds of figures Evolve have to chuck on custom headers and various other things for £3150. I'll remain sceptical until an independent rolling road tests a car before and after.
They advertise a 30bhp increase on the e39 as well but to get those kinds of figures Evolve have to chuck on custom headers and various other things for £3150. I'll remain sceptical until an independent rolling road tests a car before and after.
Same with the claims for the S54 in the e46 M3 370hp so 10hp more than the CSL with just a remap...er OK.
I know someone who had a 335i tuned by DMS, he had it dynoed, came in at 330hp way down on the advertised power and I witnessed it go into limp mode due to heat issues myself when we were out in it.
Anyway power increases are not the measure, the measure should be Vbox runs showing the improvement in acceleration times, some tuners do this (Hartge/ACS) and the top end Porsche tuners but I've yet to see the likes of DMS prove the power they claim.
I know someone who had a 335i tuned by DMS, he had it dynoed, came in at 330hp way down on the advertised power and I witnessed it go into limp mode due to heat issues myself when we were out in it.
Anyway power increases are not the measure, the measure should be Vbox runs showing the improvement in acceleration times, some tuners do this (Hartge/ACS) and the top end Porsche tuners but I've yet to see the likes of DMS prove the power they claim.
Wills2 said:
Anyway power increases are not the measure, the measure should be Vbox runs showing the improvement in acceleration times, some tuners do this (Hartge/ACS) and the top end Porsche tuners but I've yet to see the likes of DMS prove the power they claim.
I have a friend with a stock M5, I'm keen to test them side by side and will post the video if I do.Does anyone have a spare empty runway?
However in my non-scientific and small sample test, the car definitely felt quicker from 100-160 leptons, the numbers just came up so quickly.
Shaoxter said:
Wills2 said:
Anyway power increases are not the measure, the measure should be Vbox runs showing the improvement in acceleration times, some tuners do this (Hartge/ACS) and the top end Porsche tuners but I've yet to see the likes of DMS prove the power they claim.
I have a friend with a stock M5, I'm keen to test them side by side and will post the video if I do.Does anyone have a spare empty runway?
However in my non-scientific and small sample test, the car definitely felt quicker from 100-160 leptons, the numbers just came up so quickly.
"Crammed into the engine bay is the extraordinary 5-litre V10 unit that usually powers the M5 and M6. Now this may sound crazy, but fitting a standard engine with 'just' 500bhp was never going to be enough for Hartge, so they reworked the cylinder heads, modified the butterflies, fitted new camshafts and remapped the ECU. Hitting the 'Power' button now unleashes grunt of colossal proportions, 550bhp and 384lb ft of torque."
TheAngryDog said:
The S85 is meant to produce 383 ft lbs of torque, so only a gain of 1 ft lb? Or is 383 optimistic from the start?
According to the graph on this site the torque curve seems very peaky up to the max torque figure, mine seemed to show much flatter curve.Anyway as we all know peak torque is a figure which is meaningless in isolation
The peak torque on my graph is around 6700rpm rather than BMW's quoted 6100rpm.
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