Discussion
A load of motoring journalists recently came to exactly the same conclusion about the R/M4 that I did.
I think it was in the TG Mag, 2014 Car of the Year Awards.
I think part of your problem is snobbery: how could a lowly Golf possibly be chosen, money no object, over an M4?
It can, and it has been, by more learned drivers than us.
I'm OK with that, but I hope this doesn't upset some of you too much!
I think it was in the TG Mag, 2014 Car of the Year Awards.
I think part of your problem is snobbery: how could a lowly Golf possibly be chosen, money no object, over an M4?
It can, and it has been, by more learned drivers than us.
I'm OK with that, but I hope this doesn't upset some of you too much!
Edited by Jazzer on Friday 2nd January 19:35
Driver101 said:
In all seriousness, what was your point?
You said the Golf R would piss over the M4 in the real world when it doesn't at all. In many of the performance tests I've read about the Golf R, it has lost to many cars that are considered the same class or lower.
The tests I've seen with the Golf R against the M4, the M4 left it for dead on roads the R is supposed to excel. It feels like that when you drive it too. The M4 also looks much better, it feels much nicer, the M4 has more kudos than the R, and you also don't have the current stigma that the Golf has gained.
I honestly find it hard to believe that anyone would choose a Golf R over a M4 for anything other than money or extreme bias.
A lot of people were honest enough to admit the main reason for getting the Golf R was the very cheap lease deals.
Mate I wouldn't bother to reason with this loon. You said the Golf R would piss over the M4 in the real world when it doesn't at all. In many of the performance tests I've read about the Golf R, it has lost to many cars that are considered the same class or lower.
The tests I've seen with the Golf R against the M4, the M4 left it for dead on roads the R is supposed to excel. It feels like that when you drive it too. The M4 also looks much better, it feels much nicer, the M4 has more kudos than the R, and you also don't have the current stigma that the Golf has gained.
I honestly find it hard to believe that anyone would choose a Golf R over a M4 for anything other than money or extreme bias.
A lot of people were honest enough to admit the main reason for getting the Golf R was the very cheap lease deals.
Edited by Driver101 on Friday 2nd January 19:21
Jazzer said:
A load of motoring journalists recently came to exactly the same conclusion about the R/M4 that I did.
I think it was in the TG Mag, 2014 Car of the Year Awards.
I think part of your problem is snobbery: how could a lowly Golf possibly be chosen, money no object, over an M4?
It can, and it has been, by more learned drivers than us.
I'm OK with that, but I hope this doesn't upset some of you too much!
Zzzzzzz. I think it was in the TG Mag, 2014 Car of the Year Awards.
I think part of your problem is snobbery: how could a lowly Golf possibly be chosen, money no object, over an M4?
It can, and it has been, by more learned drivers than us.
I'm OK with that, but I hope this doesn't upset some of you too much!
Edited by Jazzer on Friday 2nd January 19:35
Jazzer said:
If real world is all that matters, why not buy a Golf R?
One of those would piss on both of them in many everyday circumstances!
The point being made here is that, when the road opens up and fun can be had, the M5 will just walk away from the M4.
This happens by design, BMW ensure that this is the case.
The M5 is better by some way, but good luck to the M4 crew.....it's all good!
Quite agree, AWD means Golf R can put the power down whereas the M4 and M5 struggle big time in lots of different conditions.One of those would piss on both of them in many everyday circumstances!
The point being made here is that, when the road opens up and fun can be had, the M5 will just walk away from the M4.
This happens by design, BMW ensure that this is the case.
The M5 is better by some way, but good luck to the M4 crew.....it's all good!
Twingle,
You're obviously upset that you were silly enough to buy an M4 but, as my life coach says, it's OK to make mistakes; it's how we react to them that makes the difference.
On a serious note.....it's impolite to label someone a "loon" because they differ in opinion from you, especially when they have feet in both camps.
Have a nice weekend.
You're obviously upset that you were silly enough to buy an M4 but, as my life coach says, it's OK to make mistakes; it's how we react to them that makes the difference.
On a serious note.....it's impolite to label someone a "loon" because they differ in opinion from you, especially when they have feet in both camps.
Have a nice weekend.
Jazzer said:
Twingle,
You're obviously upset that you were silly enough to buy an M4 but, as my life coach says, it's OK to make mistakes; it's how we react to them that makes the difference.
On a serious note.....it's impolite to label someone a "loon" because they differ in opinion from you, especially when they have feet in both camps.
Have a nice weekend.
Thanks - I think we all get that you don't like M4's - other people are allowed to, you know You're obviously upset that you were silly enough to buy an M4 but, as my life coach says, it's OK to make mistakes; it's how we react to them that makes the difference.
On a serious note.....it's impolite to label someone a "loon" because they differ in opinion from you, especially when they have feet in both camps.
Have a nice weekend.
If I had enough time on my hands to go on M5 threads continually telling M5 owners I hated their cars, I'd expect a spirited response!
Enjoy your weekend, no hard feelings.
Jazzer said:
Twingle,
You're obviously upset that you were silly enough to buy an M4 but, as my life coach says, it's OK to make mistakes; it's how we react to them that makes the difference.
On a serious note.....it's impolite to label someone a "loon" because they differ in opinion from you, especially when they have feet in both camps.
Have a nice weekend.
I find it hard to believe that anyone would look at a Golf R, if they were in the market for a performance saloon completely different types of car, if you did choose one over an M3/4 I hope you're going to be adding some tasteful upgrades so it can truly outrun an M3/4, as for people calling you names then they've already lost the argument so ignore them.You're obviously upset that you were silly enough to buy an M4 but, as my life coach says, it's OK to make mistakes; it's how we react to them that makes the difference.
On a serious note.....it's impolite to label someone a "loon" because they differ in opinion from you, especially when they have feet in both camps.
Have a nice weekend.
Jazzer said:
A load of motoring journalists recently came to exactly the same conclusion about the R/M4 that I did.
I think it was in the TG Mag, 2014 Car of the Year Awards.
I think part of your problem is snobbery: how could a lowly Golf possibly be chosen, money no object, over an M4?
It can, and it has been, by more learned drivers than us.
I'm OK with that, but I hope this doesn't upset some of you too much!
It's nothing to do with snobbery at all. The Golf is a nice car, but a £30k car shouldn't compete with a £57k car in many aspects. Costs have to be cut somewhere and it does show. I think it was in the TG Mag, 2014 Car of the Year Awards.
I think part of your problem is snobbery: how could a lowly Golf possibly be chosen, money no object, over an M4?
It can, and it has been, by more learned drivers than us.
I'm OK with that, but I hope this doesn't upset some of you too much!
Edited by Jazzer on Friday 2nd January 19:35
Just because a car was voted car of the year, it doesn't mean it is the best actual car. You have to use some matrix system to score a car and judge it against another car that isn't directly comparable.
The Golf is half the price of the M4, so obviously that is a major factor in that decision. I see the Peugeot 308 was awarded The European car of the Year 2014. I'm sure we all can grasp that the 308 isn't exactly a Ferrari.
I think most of us were enjoying the fact that the Golf R had been fading off the Pistonheads forum in recent weeks as it was getting way too much reading about it everyday. Loads of young aggressive guys were fighting with everyone on the internet as they suddenly could afford a £30k car due to the <£200 lease payments, and since they owned the car, it automatically became the best car in the world.
The magazines have been going OTT about the Golf. Magazines were giving 5 star reviews saying it was amazing after getting a short test on heavy snow and ice. There is no possible way they could judge to any level in the conditions they were driving. A nice freebie trip was quite clearly rewarded with totally irrelevant reviews.
I've had a shot in one and thought it was good, I'm not going to say otherwise. To start putting the Golf R up in such an inflated pedestal, I just can't take seriously, Sorry.
I can't disagree with anything you said there.
The plain fact is that I (I'm 50, but look 31) prefer the R to an M4, I really do.
And I'm not alone there.
It's a seriously good B-road weapon when you get to know it, absolutely amazing in the wet too.
The damping in the R is in fact the best that I've ever encountered in any car.
I'd wager a few quid that if you spent some Saturday/Sunday mornings in one, you'd come round to my way of thinking.
The M4 is just disappointing.....I thought one might be my next car until I drove it.
Another M5, an AWD monster apparently, or maybe the new C63 AMG, will probably be getting my vote!
The plain fact is that I (I'm 50, but look 31) prefer the R to an M4, I really do.
And I'm not alone there.
It's a seriously good B-road weapon when you get to know it, absolutely amazing in the wet too.
The damping in the R is in fact the best that I've ever encountered in any car.
I'd wager a few quid that if you spent some Saturday/Sunday mornings in one, you'd come round to my way of thinking.
The M4 is just disappointing.....I thought one might be my next car until I drove it.
Another M5, an AWD monster apparently, or maybe the new C63 AMG, will probably be getting my vote!
ZX10R NIN said:
Jazzer said:
Twingle,
You're obviously upset that you were silly enough to buy an M4 but, as my life coach says, it's OK to make mistakes; it's how we react to them that makes the difference.
On a serious note.....it's impolite to label someone a "loon" because they differ in opinion from you, especially when they have feet in both camps.
Have a nice weekend.
I find it hard to believe that anyone would look at a Golf R, if they were in the market for a performance saloon completely different types of car, if you did choose one over an M3/4 I hope you're going to be adding some tasteful upgrades so it can truly outrun an M3/4, as for people calling you names then they've already lost the argument so ignore them.You're obviously upset that you were silly enough to buy an M4 but, as my life coach says, it's OK to make mistakes; it's how we react to them that makes the difference.
On a serious note.....it's impolite to label someone a "loon" because they differ in opinion from you, especially when they have feet in both camps.
Have a nice weekend.
Just to clarify things...
I didn't choose an R over an M4....my wife has an R, which I rather like, but I'm an M5 man.
Mind you, I'd rather have the R than an M4!!!
Cheers!
😏
I struggle to see the comparison to a Golf R.
http://fastestlaps.com/comparisons/vw_golf_r_mk7-v...
22 seconds slower around the ring
Hockenheim Short 3 secs slower
Sachsenring 4 secs slower
1.4 secs slower Quarter Mile, 0.9 secs slower to 60.....
The M4 is simply in another world performance wise, I'm not knocking the Golf R I work with them daily and they are fantastic value for money and they deliver very impressive real world performance but they are not in the same league as an M4.
I think perhaps the Golf R just suits a driver who maybe needs the confidence of the awd system, but there is no question that 2 drivers in the mentioned cars with equal abilities the M4 would be dot in the distance.
Unless its snowing...
Weight wise, its lighter than the E46 M3 which in my book is pretty impressive.
http://fastestlaps.com/comparisons/vw_golf_r_mk7-v...
22 seconds slower around the ring
Hockenheim Short 3 secs slower
Sachsenring 4 secs slower
1.4 secs slower Quarter Mile, 0.9 secs slower to 60.....
The M4 is simply in another world performance wise, I'm not knocking the Golf R I work with them daily and they are fantastic value for money and they deliver very impressive real world performance but they are not in the same league as an M4.
I think perhaps the Golf R just suits a driver who maybe needs the confidence of the awd system, but there is no question that 2 drivers in the mentioned cars with equal abilities the M4 would be dot in the distance.
Unless its snowing...
Weight wise, its lighter than the E46 M3 which in my book is pretty impressive.
http://youtu.be/4AJPt_qm5kY
c. 5 mins 40 for the Golf, 13mins for the M3 but the vid as a whole is worth a watch.
No bias here, I love M cars and am gutted by this review. An m3 is perfect for my needs - well, if it was in Labrador friendly Touring form anyway - and also as an m135i owner I'd rather the golf wasn't quite as good as it obviously is!
c. 5 mins 40 for the Golf, 13mins for the M3 but the vid as a whole is worth a watch.
No bias here, I love M cars and am gutted by this review. An m3 is perfect for my needs - well, if it was in Labrador friendly Touring form anyway - and also as an m135i owner I'd rather the golf wasn't quite as good as it obviously is!
R5YUP said:
http://youtu.be/4AJPt_qm5kY
c. 5 mins 40 for the Golf, 13mins for the M3 but the vid as a whole is worth a watch.
No bias here, I love M cars and am gutted by this review. An m3 is perfect for my needs - well, if it was in Labrador friendly Touring form anyway - and also as an m135i owner I'd rather the golf wasn't quite as good as it obviously is!
That is a good video. The Ferrari that wins looks pretty special ! c. 5 mins 40 for the Golf, 13mins for the M3 but the vid as a whole is worth a watch.
No bias here, I love M cars and am gutted by this review. An m3 is perfect for my needs - well, if it was in Labrador friendly Touring form anyway - and also as an m135i owner I'd rather the golf wasn't quite as good as it obviously is!
Slightly odd comparing such a different set of cars - like hatchbacks vs coupes vs supercars.
Jazzer said:
Brilliant video that, I hadn't seen it before.
Made me smile too....I thought initially your quoted times were lap times!!!
Wouldn't you just love to do their job for those kind of days?
I though it was lap times to start with as well, made me watch it!Made me smile too....I thought initially your quoted times were lap times!!!
Wouldn't you just love to do their job for those kind of days?
Some lap times were posted earlier though. M4 and M5 about the same, Golf trailing way behind.
U
If they were the same price I would have the M4 but they are not so can understand those who would go for the Golf. Someone on this thread got out of a 997 GTS into an M4 on cost basis and this is just the same argument again.
thed4ppa said:
I struggle to see the comparison to a Golf R.
http://fastestlaps.com/comparisons/vw_golf_r_mk7-v...
22 seconds slower around the ring
Hockenheim Short 3 secs slower
Sachsenring 4 secs slower
1.4 secs slower Quarter Mile, 0.9 secs slower to 60.....
The M4 is simply in another world performance wise, I'm not knocking the Golf R I work with them daily and they are fantastic value for money and they deliver very impressive real world performance but they are not in the same league as an M4.
I think perhaps the Golf R just suits a driver who maybe needs the confidence of the awd system, but there is no question that 2 drivers in the mentioned cars with equal abilities the M4 would be dot in the distance.
Unless its snowing...
Weight wise, its lighter than the E46 M3 which in my book is pretty impressive.
Most of us drive on roads rather than on the track and the argument would be that for most drivers the Golf is as quick as an M4 on most roads most of the time.http://fastestlaps.com/comparisons/vw_golf_r_mk7-v...
22 seconds slower around the ring
Hockenheim Short 3 secs slower
Sachsenring 4 secs slower
1.4 secs slower Quarter Mile, 0.9 secs slower to 60.....
The M4 is simply in another world performance wise, I'm not knocking the Golf R I work with them daily and they are fantastic value for money and they deliver very impressive real world performance but they are not in the same league as an M4.
I think perhaps the Golf R just suits a driver who maybe needs the confidence of the awd system, but there is no question that 2 drivers in the mentioned cars with equal abilities the M4 would be dot in the distance.
Unless its snowing...
Weight wise, its lighter than the E46 M3 which in my book is pretty impressive.
If they were the same price I would have the M4 but they are not so can understand those who would go for the Golf. Someone on this thread got out of a 997 GTS into an M4 on cost basis and this is just the same argument again.
Edited by Helicopter123 on Saturday 3rd January 08:41
Helicopter123 said:
Most of us drive on roads rather than on the track and the argument would be that for most drivers the Golf is as quick as an M4 on most roads most of the time.
If they were the same price I would have the M4 but they are not so can understand those who would do for an M4. Someone on this thread got out of a 997 GTS into an M4 on cost basis and this is just the same argument again.
Yes agreed the Golf would be as quick as the M4 or M5 on roads most of the time, would be left behind on the track against either. Golf R is a good nippy little hatchback. If they were the same price I would have the M4 but they are not so can understand those who would do for an M4. Someone on this thread got out of a 997 GTS into an M4 on cost basis and this is just the same argument again.
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