M4 Shock

[twingf]

x5x3 said:

thanks, so it was mainly a financial decision - that makes sense. I've been prudent for a number of years now so the time seems right to invest in a 911

Sort of - next to the M4 it didn't seem to me that the 911 was worth the extra money as I'd already had a couple and the M4 is so good. So that made my mind up. I could have bought either.

I'd recommend trying a 911 (whether 997 or 991) though, great car.

[molar explorer]

I'm confused about all these posts about the m4 getting poor reviews in the magazines etc. I haven't seen a terrible review yet. Yes it doesn't sound as good as the v8 but that because the emissions rules means it had to be turbo charged . And yes, I've got an m4 convertible and I don't think it sounds that bad. Having come from an r8 I think it's a great car. It isn't as good looking as an r8 but it's useable every day . People seem to say the body control isn't great but if your driving it hard enough to find that out on the public road you won't have you freedom for long! It just seems to me that people enjoy running these cars down on this forum , mostly after no test drive it a very brief drive with the salesman sitting next to them . It came 9th in ecoty but you have to remember the price of the competition it was up against!

[twingf]

molar explorer said:

I'm confused about all these posts about the m4 getting poor reviews in the magazines etc. I haven't seen a terrible review yet. Yes it doesn't sound as good as the v8 but that because the emissions rules means it had to be turbo charged . And yes, I've got an m4 convertible and I don't think it sounds that bad. Having come from an r8 I think it's a great car. It isn't as good looking as an r8 but it's useable every day . People seem to say the body control isn't great but if your driving it hard enough to find that out on the public road you won't have you freedom for long! It just seems to me that people enjoy running these cars down on this forum , mostly after no test drive it a very brief drive with the salesman sitting next to them . It came 9th in ecoty but you have to remember the price of the competition it was up against!

I'm also confused all the reviews i have seen have been super positive. Congrats on your choice sounds similar thought process to me changing from the 911 into an M4. I'm delighted with it.

[cringle]

My main problem with my M4 is the power delivery and secondly the sound. There is no reward in redlining the thing, and tbh if you live in a city then i find it pointless having a car with 430 odd horsepower. Accelerate hard in third and you're doing 80-90mph. I thought my e46 M3 was slow when footing it against S3's and their ilk, but have now come to realise that personally, about 250bhp is ideal for city driving, you can explore the limits of a car with that much power and that is where the fun lies. Next car will definitely be less powerful.

[Kawasicki]

cringle said:

My main problem with my M4 is the power delivery and secondly the sound. There is no reward in redlining the thing, and tbh if you live in a city then i find it pointless having a car with 430 odd horsepower. Accelerate hard in third and you're doing 80-90mph. I thought my e46 M3 was slow when footing it against S3's and their ilk, but have now come to realise that personally, about 250bhp is ideal for city driving, you can explore the limits of a car with that much power and that is where the fun lies. Next car will definitely be less powerful.

See, I'm confused, I owned a 250bhp car, and it seemed to be waaay too much for city driving, it felt like it was comfortable between 120 and 140mph.

[twingf]

cringle said:

My main problem with my M4 is the power delivery and secondly the sound. There is no reward in redlining the thing, and tbh if you live in a city then i find it pointless having a car with 430 odd horsepower. Accelerate hard in third and you're doing 80-90mph. I thought my e46 M3 was slow when footing it against S3's and their ilk, but have now come to realise that personally, about 250bhp is ideal for city driving, you can explore the limits of a car with that much power and that is where the fun lies. Next car will definitely be less powerful.

Certainly true that if you don't want a powerful car you should avoid M3's, M4's, M5's or any other M cars for that matter!

Agree you don't get to use the power in town. Same argument applies to Porsche's etc.

[gaz1234]

I'd go Cayman now

[ZX10R NIN]

Having had the New M3 for the past week courtesy of a mate going away for Xmas & New Year & being lucky enough to have a C63 to compare it to here's what I found.

The 63 is more enjoyable even when cruising at low speed the V8 burble(a Bespokehp exhaust system fitted) coming into the cabin puts a smile on your face it's more playful & the steering feels better.

The M3 is more serious not as enjoyable as his previous E92 M3 the engine note is nothing to write home about & I'm pretty sure there's an artificial enhancement somewhere because when you have the windows open it doesn't sound like what's coming out of the exhaust pipes.

I'd say it's a good car but not a great one then we come to the price this one was supposed to be £70000 with the BMW discount he got it for 64K but I look at it & don't see £64000 of car (then again some a lot of cars are like that), I'd take the C63 over the new M3(out of the C63 & the E92 M3 then it's a lot closer) & a Granturismo over the pair of them.

But that's just my opinion anyone who buys one will be happy with their purchase my girlfriend likes it but is looking to replace the C63 with an Alpina D3 which she took for a test drive & in her opinion sounds as good as the M4 when your driving them & feels as quick in most situations.

Sometimes you just don't click with a car I was like that with an RS5

[PeteB]

Similar thoughts here. Owned E46 and E92 M3s previously and loved them both. Assumed I'd get an M4 next, until I drove one. Seats were excellent, low down torque great and turn in felt like it was on rails. But that's where it ended for me. The new car doesn't feel as well built as the old ones, and almost Mitsubishi Evo like in terms of interior plastics used. Just didn't feel a premium car. Then tried/looked at 911, E63, C63, Maserati Ghilbi, XFR, XKR, even a Tesla S. In the end went for an M5. Build quality different league to the E92/F80, it's a V8 still (and fake or not, I love the noise it makes), it's super comfortable and fits the family in no problem and best of all it goes like the clappers. I found that the M4 ran out of steam as it neared the red line, whereas the M5 just keeps pulling and pulling at which point you need to stop or licence is gone. Then it will quite happily waft along as a quiet civilised motorway cruiser and do high 20s to the gallon.

My dealer gave me both cars for extended test drives. Had the M4 for a day and took it back early. Had the M5 for a weekend and took it back late. Would I have swapped the E92 for the M4 if the M5 hadn't have been an option? Possibly, but I guess that would just have been to change for changings sake. Out of everything else I looked at the M4 was probably second choice as the 991 was just a bit too pricey for me plus with kids a bit too much of a compromise. But with the M5 as a first choice option, second place in my case was absolutely nowhere.

[twingf]

PeteB said:

Similar thoughts here. Owned E46 and E92 M3s previously and loved them both. Assumed I'd get an M4 next, until I drove one. Seats were excellent, low down torque great and turn in felt like it was on rails. But that's where it ended for me. The new car doesn't feel as well built as the old ones, and almost Mitsubishi Evo like in terms of interior plastics used. Just didn't feel a premium car. Then tried/looked at 911, E63, C63, Maserati Ghilbi, XFR, XKR, even a Tesla S. In the end went for an M5. Build quality different league to the E92/F80, it's a V8 still (and fake or not, I love the noise it makes), it's super comfortable and fits the family in no problem and best of all it goes like the clappers. I found that the M4 ran out of steam as it neared the red line, whereas the M5 just keeps pulling and pulling at which point you need to stop or licence is gone. Then it will quite happily waft along as a quiet civilised motorway cruiser and do high 20s to the gallon.

My dealer gave me both cars for extended test drives. Had the M4 for a day and took it back early. Had the M5 for a weekend and took it back late. Would I have swapped the E92 for the M4 if the M5 hadn't have been an option? Possibly, but I guess that would just have been to change for changings sake. Out of everything else I looked at the M4 was probably second choice as the 991 was just a bit too pricey for me plus with kids a bit too much of a compromise. But with the M5 as a first choice option, second place in my case was absolutely nowhere.

Interesting. For me the M5 is looks big and ugly (personal opinion obviously). It costs more to buy, costs more to run and is no quicker (in fact don't the stats say it is slower, or for practical purposes there is no difference).

So for me, absolute no-brainer to get the M4. Couple of people I know have ordered M4's wouldn't consider M5's for a second.

I guess if we all chose the same car life would be pretty boring.

[PeteB]

Totally agree, beauty is in the eye of the beholder etc etc and each to his own in terms of personal preference. However, the stats don't give the full picture. Off the mark to 60, the M4 probably has an edge but that's it. Once up and running and in the real world, when overtaking the M5 is in a different league. In terms of purchase cost, when I was buying in September there really was very little in it, hence why the M4 was even less attractive. But that was just after launch so getting a £1 discount wasn't even an option. I suspect that will change in the next few months. As for running costs, true the M4 was more economical on the day I had it. But the fact that the M5 is more economical than my E92 is good enough for me. Oh and they're practically giving petrol away these days so even less of an issue Coupled with a bigger fuel tank, I really don't find myself filling up every few days as I did with the E92.

Enjoy the M4, as you say life would be dull if we all thought the same.

[molar explorer]

I wanted a convertible so the m5 wasn't an option. There are better handling convertibles out there but not many with 2 back seats!

[twingf]

PeteB said:

Totally agree, beauty is in the eye of the beholder etc etc and each to his own in terms of personal preference. However, the stats don't give the full picture. Off the mark to 60, the M4 probably has an edge but that's it. Once up and running and in the real world, when overtaking the M5 is in a different league. In terms of purchase cost, when I was buying in September there really was very little in it, hence why the M4 was even less attractive. But that was just after launch so getting a £1 discount wasn't even an option. I suspect that will change in the next few months. As for running costs, true the M4 was more economical on the day I had it. But the fact that the M5 is more economical than my E92 is good enough for me. Oh and they're practically giving petrol away these days so even less of an issue Coupled with a bigger fuel tank, I really don't find myself filling up every few days as I did with the E92.

Enjoy the M4, as you say life would be dull if we all thought the same.

I'm no expert but I thought all the stats showed the M4 was for all practical purposes as quick or quicker than the M5. Although at the speeds they both do, the differences have no real world application. I'd be interested to see some actual evidence that M5 performance is "in a different league". Is there any?

[twingf]

twingf said:

I'm no expert but I thought all the stats showed the M4 was for all practical purposes as quick or quicker than the M5. Although at the speeds they both do, the differences have no real world application. I'd be interested to see some actual evidence that M5 performance is "in a different league". Is there any?

By evidence I mean empirical evidence rather than desperately insecure M5 drivers

[PeteB]

This link pretty much sums up exactly what I experienced when I tested both...

http://youtu.be/WkAx9Sfxsto

[twingf]

PeteB said:

This link pretty much sums up exactly what I experienced when I tested both...

http://youtu.be/WkAx9Sfxsto

Oh right, a youtube video.

I think the empirical evidence suggests that the real world performance is for all practical purposes the same. Actually as you said the empirical evidence says think the M4 is quicker 0-60mph but the difference is tiny.

Happy to be proved wrong if there is any empirical evidence out there. I guess you'd expect the M5 to be quicker. Is it quicker at Nurburgring for example ?

[Andy M]

PeteB said:

This link pretty much sums up exactly what I experienced when I tested both...

http://youtu.be/WkAx9Sfxsto

Versus Ferrari FF too: http://youtu.be/A3jqll4qQ0w

[Shaoxter]

twingf said:

Oh right, a youtube video.

I think the empirical evidence suggests that the real world performance is for all practical purposes the same. Actually as you said the empirical evidence says think the M4 is quicker 0-60mph but the difference is tiny.

Happy to be proved wrong if there is any empirical evidence out there. I guess you'd expect the M5 to be quicker. Is it quicker at Nurburgring for example ?

Er, how is that youtube video not empirical evidence? Seemed a fair test to me.

I'm pretty sure the M3 is quicker at the Ring (generally all previous gen M3's have been quicker than M5's). However Nurburgring times do not equal "real world" performance

[twingf]

Shaoxter said:

Er, how is that youtube video not empirical evidence? Seemed a fair test to me.

I'm pretty sure the M3 is quicker at the Ring (generally all previous gen M3's have been quicker than M5's). However Nurburgring times do not equal "real world" performance

Are there not official statistics for things like 0-100mph or something ? That's empirical.

Youtube videos are not empirical unless you know that they were carried out under controlled conditions. That's pretty obvious !

[twingf]

Shaoxter said:

Er, how is that youtube video not empirical evidence? Seemed a fair test to me.

I'm pretty sure the M3 is quicker at the Ring (generally all previous gen M3's have been quicker than M5's). However Nurburgring times do not equal "real world" performance

So the M5 is slower around a track and slower 0-60mph but it's real world performance is "in a different league". Yes this is really stacking up !