E39 M5 Facelift question

[minimatan]

minimatan said:

Hi all, time for the big reveal!

http://www.gumtree.com/p/bmw/bmw-m5-2000x-61000-mi...

I went to see this car, at considerable inconvenience to myself, which was communicated to me as being a good honest vehicle that was totally original. It transpires that it had aftermarket straight pipes, pipercross air filters and a sticky gearbox, probably attributable to lots of burnouts and aggressive gearchanges. There was no glass sunroof (I asked specifically) and the rear heater element did not work (small fry).

All in all I wasted my time going to see this vehicle, key elements of which were not communicated to me despite numerous and detailed email exchanges over a number of days. It was clear that this was being sold as an original spec low mileage vehicle and that I was after a largely unadulterated model.

It is a shame as the bodywork was nice and the interior was good too. The comfort seats are very nice and yet still supportive. The stereo sound was excellent.

The issue is that the previous owner was a 25 year old guy who lightly modded it and thrashed it. Shame for the car and shame on the seller for trying to sell a mechanically inferior vehicle as being something tip top, which it is not.

I wish any interested parties all the best, but be prepared for some expenses in getting this vehicle back to spec, which should be considered in the negotiated price.

So now, this same vehicle is being sold via his mate's garage. The pipercross air filters are conveniently missing from the photo of the engine bay...

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015...

[humpbackmaniac]

Wont hear a bad word said about that garage, always looked after my M5 for 100k plus miles and always been bloody good service even when I had to return the courtesy car with a large dent in it (not my fault but still felt rather guilty!)

[minimatan]

humpbackmaniac said:

Wont hear a bad word said about that garage, always looked after my M5 for 100k plus miles and always been bloody good service even when I had to return the courtesy car with a large dent in it (not my fault but still felt rather guilty!)

That is fair, as I am not judging the garage; however, their camera skills and attention to detail in the description could be improved.

[minimatan]

Can misted headlights be repaired? According to BMW, the price of replacement headlights is £550+VAT each!

[RichardM5]

The lights actually have vents to allow them to dry, but they also seam to let moisture in!

The pre-facelift lights are more prone to misting than the facelift lights. You can easily remove them and dry them out in a warm oven, but they will inevitably mist up again. You'll probably also find that one the lights have misted up, there is some residue left behind which will itself attract moisture. If you open them up (not hard with the pre facelift lights, hard with the early facelift lights and almost impossible with the later lights), clean them really well and use an anti mist wipe on the inside of the cover it will help.

New pre-facelift lights are no guarantee against misting up again.

[minimatan]

Richard, what kind of individual options did chassis number BJ11733 have?

[RichardM5]

VIN long WBSDE92020BJ11733
Type code DE92
Type M5 (EUR)
Dev. series E39 ()
Line 5
Body type LIM
Steering RL
Door count 4
Engine S62
Cubical capacity 5.00
Power 294
Transmision HECK
Gearbox MECH
Colour CARBONSCHWARZ METALLIC (416)
Upholstery SONDERPOLSTERUNG (Z1XX)
Prod. date 2001-02-28

Order options
No. Description
265 TIRE PRESSURE CONTROL (RDC)
354 GREEN STRIPE WINDSCREEN
403 GLASS ROOF, ELECTRIC
428 WARNING TRIANGLE
441 SMOKERS PACKAGE
508 PARK DISTANCE CONTROL (PDC)
630 CAR TELEPHONE WITH CORDLESS RECEIVER
672 CD CHANGER BMW FOR 6 CDS
676 HIFI LOUDSPEAKER SYSTEM
812 ENGLAND VERSION
863 EUROPE/DEALER DIRECTORY
877 DELETION CROSS-OVER OPERATION
880 ENGLISH / ON-BOARD DOCUMENTATION
940 SPECIAL REQUEST EQUIPMENT
995 CHANGE BAN

Individual data

Processing Individual
Sign "BMW individual"

Upholstery
Extended leather Nappa lotos white (nb. 2 250 829)
Quilting yarn lotoswhite (1 963 127), code 0102 Z.
Sewing thread lotoswhite (nb. 1 966 487), code 0102 Z.
Plastic parts of seats in black
Seam of front and rear seats according to standard option O5/O6
Remainder of specs. as extended leather Nappa Point black (05SW)

0940 Sonderwunschausstattung

Wood trim birch anthrazit, 0690
(decorcover of steering wheel with option 255 in softpaint black)

[minimatan]

The upholstery is something that I haven't come across before.

I have now ceased my search for an E39. My conclusion is that the myth of them has inflated prices to beyond what is reasonable for lower mileage facelift models.

[minimatan]

Hello M people,

I finally opted for a Bavarian V8... a 645ci.





I am very happy with my decision. I love coupes (as per my E30 325i sport) and this has a six speed manual with a panoramic roof which lets plenty of light in along with adaptive headlights that I experienced the other night as they bathed the sweeping uphill curve ahead in gloriously bright xenon light.

54k miles, full BMW service history and a price that would only secure me a 120k+ E39 M5 with a number of owners... I suppose that I shall have to wait until I can afford a Hexagon E39 M5 before I take the plunge for a good honest model.

[dentanr]

RichardM5 said:

No, two types :

S352A Sound Insulating double glazing, 145 UK cars.

S357A Protection Glazing which has a layer of polycarbonate laminate in the outer glass, 34 UK cars.

You can tell them apart (if the protection glazing is not de-laminating!) by the shape of the black surround in the top rear corner of the front windows and top corners of the rear windows. Protection glazing has a rounded inner radius, double glazing has an angle.

Double Glazing



Protection Glazing (showing signs of de-lamination)



Protection Glazing should not be confused with Individual Sun Shade Glazing S761A (478 UK cars), which is tinted glass on the rear windows and rear screen. This could be ordered together with Double Glazing (44 UK cars) but I think not with Protection Glazing, at least there are no RHD cars with both.

Reviving this old thread :-)

I have the protection glazing and the delamination has got pretty bad - so I have to do something with it. I'd love to replace like for like but can't find any for sale and BMW charge stupid amounts (indeed - about £500 a piece)

However, double glazing is much cheaper - anyone know if the two are interchangable?

Cheers,

Alec

[RichardM5]

99.9% sure that they are interchangeable.

There are only two parts for the window guides and other trim pieces, one for standard single glazing and one for double or protection glazing due to the extra thickness.

The protection glazing units are made to order as far as I understand, they usually take months and at the moment it could be much longer.

[rassi]

Looking at this old and revived thread, with the reference to double-glazing makes me miss my 2002 M5 even more - best allrounder ever!

[oxfordgreenmetallic]

RichardM5 said:

99.9% sure that they are interchangeable.

There are only two parts for the window guides and other trim pieces, one for standard single glazing and one for double or protection glazing due to the extra thickness.

The protection glazing units are made to order as far as I understand, they usually take months and at the moment it could be much longer.

Reviving this thread having been guided toward it while researching Double Glazing vs Protection Glazing for an article about my E39 M5 which has just been published

Link here in case anyone is so inclined -

RichardM5 - questions to you having enjoyed the level of detail you've been able to impart:-

- Do you know the list price of option 357 in Sept 2000 in the UK? My build is LCI.
- Is there any insight as to which conditions / use are the cause of delamination of 357? My car has thus far escaped, and I have no records to show that it has been replaced in the history file, so must assume it is original factory fitment.

- On a separate note, do you know the list price for an Individual full-leather heritage interior by comparison with Non-individual full-leather heritage? I lack the original order form / invoice - and my interior code doesn't specify which leather, other than confirming it was an 'Individual' - Code Z1XX

Any input is highly appreciated.

OGM

P.S. - any plans to make the staggering database available?

[RichardM5]

Not sure what the prices were in 2000, I only have a 2003 price list (which I can't find at the moment!).

Individual could be anything, from about £700 to lots! Depends what they did, there are different levels of individual from just a non standard colour to significant customisation.

I would suspect that strong sunlight would lead to protection glass deteriorating, so a garaged car would be less likely to suffer failure. Other than that it might just be pot luck. Most cars I've seen with Protection glass have either been replaced at some point or show the tell tail delamination signs.

[oxfordgreenmetallic]

RichardM5 said:

Not sure what the prices were in 2000, I only have a 2003 price list (which I can't find at the moment!).

Individual could be anything, from about £700 to lots! Depends what they did, there are different levels of individual from just a non standard colour to significant customisation.

I would suspect that strong sunlight would lead to protection glass deteriorating, so a garaged car would be less likely to suffer failure. Other than that it might just be pot luck. Most cars I've seen with Protection glass have either been replaced at some point or show the tell tail delamination signs.

£5-700 was my uninformed guess over and above the quoted price to upgrade from the, tear inducing, £4,220 (Mar00) fee for Full Nappa Heritage. This option was offered in the 'standard' options in Black, Caramel and English Green. Mine is Champagne, and is the only 'Individual' element of my spec to my knowledge thus far.

As you've cited logically, I suspected that sunlight exposure is the primary culprit in the absence of any alternative. Fortunately, mine now lives indoors, underground and covered - so may endure for now.

As it happens, you've seen my car once last year at Ultimate BMW, but we never got onto this topic. I believe you plan to attend in 2023, but sadly your M5 E39 will be absent. It would be a pleasure to buy you a coffee and have a detailed spec chat if we can find and spare the time.

OGM

[RichardM5]

oxfordgreenmetallic said:

£5-700 was my uninformed guess over and above the quoted price to upgrade from the, tear inducing, £4,220 (Mar00) fee for Full Nappa Heritage. This option was offered in the 'standard' options in Black, Caramel and English Green. Mine is Champagne, and is the only 'Individual' element of my spec to my knowledge thus far.

As you've cited logically, I suspected that sunlight exposure is the primary culprit in the absence of any alternative. Fortunately, mine now lives indoors, underground and covered - so may endure for now.

As it happens, you've seen my car once last year at Ultimate BMW, but we never got onto this topic. I believe you plan to attend in 2023, but sadly your M5 E39 will be absent. It would be a pleasure to buy you a coffee and have a detailed spec chat if we can find and spare the time.

OGM

Yes, I remember talking to you about your car, I should be at the meet again this year all going well.

There is only one RHD Oxford Green can with an individual interior that I have record of, VIN ending in 240, build date 8th September 2000. This car has Protection Glazing, which itself is not common, so it's pretty likely this is your car. However, if it is then your interior is not "Champagne", it's "Ecru" which translates to "Light Fawn" or "Unbleached Linen". So quite similar, probably a little less yellow. There were only 6 RHD E39 M5's with Ecru interiors. The 240 car had the following individual specification :

--- Individual control
Information sign BMW Individual

Z1XX pad
Individual Collection: Full leather in Individual Collection colors

Interior full leather M5 in Walknappa ecru (No. 2 695 113),

Sewing thread in ecru (no. 7 000 797), color no. 0862 F

Quilting thread in ecru (no. 7 000 794), color no. 0862 F

Seat panels in black

Seam pattern of the front and rear seats analogous to M1/M3

Floor paneling, paneling at the bottom front of the center console and
Floor mats in Softvelours III ecru, color no. 3278

The rest of the interior fittings are the same as for full nappa leather
Heritage black, key no. M1SW

If that is yours and if they are still with the car, good luck keeping Ecru floor mats clean!

[oxfordgreenmetallic]

RichardM5 said:

oxfordgreenmetallic said:

£5-700 was my uninformed guess over and above the quoted price to upgrade from the, tear inducing, £4,220 (Mar00) fee for Full Nappa Heritage. This option was offered in the 'standard' options in Black, Caramel and English Green. Mine is Champagne, and is the only 'Individual' element of my spec to my knowledge thus far.

As you've cited logically, I suspected that sunlight exposure is the primary culprit in the absence of any alternative. Fortunately, mine now lives indoors, underground and covered - so may endure for now.

As it happens, you've seen my car once last year at Ultimate BMW, but we never got onto this topic. I believe you plan to attend in 2023, but sadly your M5 E39 will be absent. It would be a pleasure to buy you a coffee and have a detailed spec chat if we can find and spare the time.

OGM

Yes, I remember talking to you about your car, I should be at the meet again this year all going well.

There is only one RHD Oxford Green can with an individual interior that I have record of, VIN ending in 240, build date 8th September 2000. This car has Protection Glazing, which itself is not common, so it's pretty likely this is your car. However, if it is then your interior is not "Champagne", it's "Ecru" which translates to "Light Fawn" or "Unbleached Linen". So quite similar, probably a little less yellow. There were only 6 RHD E39 M5's with Ecru interiors. The 240 car had the following individual specification :

--- Individual control
Information sign BMW Individual

Z1XX pad
Individual Collection: Full leather in Individual Collection colors

Interior full leather M5 in Walknappa ecru (No. 2 695 113),

Sewing thread in ecru (no. 7 000 797), color no. 0862 F

Quilting thread in ecru (no. 7 000 794), color no. 0862 F

Seat panels in black

Seam pattern of the front and rear seats analogous to M1/M3

Floor paneling, paneling at the bottom front of the center console and
Floor mats in Softvelours III ecru, color no. 3278

The rest of the interior fittings are the same as for full nappa leather
Heritage black, key no. M1SW

If that is yours and if they are still with the car, good luck keeping Ecru floor mats clean!

Thanks for this information Richard. The build date correlates, but just to be sure on the detail my chassis is ending 280. I believe ending 240 should have been a PFL car?

I do still have the original carpeting plus the original mats - but I choose not to use them for obvious reasons.

[RichardM5]

oxfordgreenmetallic said:

Thanks for this information Richard. The build date correlates, but just to be sure on the detail my chassis is ending 280. I believe ending 240 should have been a PFL car?

I do still have the original carpeting plus the original mats - but I choose not to use them for obvious reasons.

You are quite right, it’s 280 not 240. Wrote down 280 then typed 240, senility is setting in.

[Gregpank]

Apologies if there is a newer version of this old topic. but @richardm5 are you still available to give build info on individual cars? Interested as a new owner! TIA

[RichardM5]

Gregpank said:

Apologies if there is a newer version of this old topic. but @richardm5 are you still available to give build info on individual cars? Interested as a new owner! TIA

If you have the last 5 digits of the VIN, PM if you don't want it to be public, I can give you the build data.