e30 m3 are they really that good?
Discussion
Evening All
So much hype about this model and values have gone crazy, a bit like air cooled porsche. Always admired them and very few for sale, Couple of questions for fellow fans...
a) Is the driving experience an instant hit or a bit like the older porsches does it come with familiarisation?
b) rated against other M Cars where would it's place be in the league table
c) anyone know of a hire outfit, with one on their fleet?
Looking forward to your views!
So much hype about this model and values have gone crazy, a bit like air cooled porsche. Always admired them and very few for sale, Couple of questions for fellow fans...
a) Is the driving experience an instant hit or a bit like the older porsches does it come with familiarisation?
b) rated against other M Cars where would it's place be in the league table
c) anyone know of a hire outfit, with one on their fleet?
Looking forward to your views!
yes they are very very good. they dont actually feel that fast now though, my 330d auto is quicker. The driving experience is what its all about though and not straight line speed.
They are kind of like a 4 seater caterham with an engine that loves to rev and an upside down gearbox. It'll take a you a while to get to grips with it but once you have they are very rewarding to drive. when I had mine if i hadnt driven it for a few weeks it'd take me 30 to 40 miles to reacquaint myself with it. I'd have another tomorrow.
They are kind of like a 4 seater caterham with an engine that loves to rev and an upside down gearbox. It'll take a you a while to get to grips with it but once you have they are very rewarding to drive. when I had mine if i hadnt driven it for a few weeks it'd take me 30 to 40 miles to reacquaint myself with it. I'd have another tomorrow.
I owned an M3 Cecotto for 4yrs from late 98' and it was a great car to drive, did not feel as quick as say my previous slightly modded Sapph Cosworth (320bhp) but it did drive and handle superbly and never missed a beat and it would definitely get from A - B quicker when pushed than my Sapph on the twisty roads around my home in Wales and it was so well put together. To get the full potential out of it you had to really rev it hard, sounded bloody great on full chat.
I can't compare against other 'M' cars as it is the only 'M' i've owned
I would love another but they are a little to rich for me nowadays
.
I can't compare against other 'M' cars as it is the only 'M' i've owned
I would love another but they are a little to rich for me nowadays
.a) Is the driving experience an instant hit or a bit like the older porsches does it come with familiarisation?
The latter in my experience. The first few times I drove mine I wondered what all the fuss was about but then they kind of grow on you. I loved my old 964 from the moment I purchased it but it look some time to get used to how tit drove.
b) rated against other M Cars where would it's place be in the league table
Depends what you want in an M car. If it's performance and speed then near the bottom but if it's a driving experience and enjoyment then it's near the top. I've owned an E46 M3 and driven a Z4M and E39 M5 on a few occasions. I have toyed with swapping the E30 for a CSL but I'd never actually go through with it. Finances permitting, I'll never sell it.
c) anyone know of a hire outfit, with one on their fleet?
Nope!
The latter in my experience. The first few times I drove mine I wondered what all the fuss was about but then they kind of grow on you. I loved my old 964 from the moment I purchased it but it look some time to get used to how tit drove.
b) rated against other M Cars where would it's place be in the league table
Depends what you want in an M car. If it's performance and speed then near the bottom but if it's a driving experience and enjoyment then it's near the top. I've owned an E46 M3 and driven a Z4M and E39 M5 on a few occasions. I have toyed with swapping the E30 for a CSL but I'd never actually go through with it. Finances permitting, I'll never sell it.
c) anyone know of a hire outfit, with one on their fleet?
Nope!
Edited by benny.c on Friday 23 January 14:01
Great little cars. Really not that fast by modern standards. A 320D will keep up. but its just a bit of fun to drive, nice feel in the steering, revy engine nice manual box. They roll a lot more than modern cars, they are much smaller (good thing). It just makes you realise just how much more refined a modern car is. It feels like a bean tin even compared to my wife's mini clubman.
I understand why people back in the late 80's raved about them so much, but I found mine a little uncomfortable and things keep going wrong with them (they are 20+ years old now) so it became literally a pain in the back to drive for more than 45mins, so I stopped enjoying it.
I paid a little too much for mine and lost a couple of grand( due to repair costs) but I don't regret buying it one bit, had a lot of fun for a year.
I certainly wouldn't pay the money people are currently asking for them, they are not THAT good. Anyway, too many people buying them for the profit so they don't get used, so if you buy one of those you have to protect your investment and not drive it much, which to me is a bit daft. why buy a car and not use it when you want, rain or shine.
I understand why people back in the late 80's raved about them so much, but I found mine a little uncomfortable and things keep going wrong with them (they are 20+ years old now) so it became literally a pain in the back to drive for more than 45mins, so I stopped enjoying it.
I paid a little too much for mine and lost a couple of grand( due to repair costs) but I don't regret buying it one bit, had a lot of fun for a year.
I certainly wouldn't pay the money people are currently asking for them, they are not THAT good. Anyway, too many people buying them for the profit so they don't get used, so if you buy one of those you have to protect your investment and not drive it much, which to me is a bit daft. why buy a car and not use it when you want, rain or shine.
r4_rick said:
Evening All
So much hype about this model and values have gone crazy, a bit like air cooled porsche. Always admired them and very few for sale, Couple of questions for fellow fans...
a) Is the driving experience an instant hit or a bit like the older porsches does it come with familiarisation?
b) rated against other M Cars where would it's place be in the league table
c) anyone know of a hire outfit, with one on their fleet?
Looking forward to your views!
IMO yes that are that good. Provided its a good example of course. If you are used to LHD then jumping in one should bring no surprises other than the gearbox which takes a few miles to get your head around. Once you have done that then you're good to go. Thread a few corners together and let the engine work for its living and you'll begin to see the talent of the car, throw at it some tricky corners with some camber changes and you'll really start to see what all the fuss is about. Having had a sorted 964 C2 you can get away with a lot more in an M3. So much hype about this model and values have gone crazy, a bit like air cooled porsche. Always admired them and very few for sale, Couple of questions for fellow fans...
a) Is the driving experience an instant hit or a bit like the older porsches does it come with familiarisation?
b) rated against other M Cars where would it's place be in the league table
c) anyone know of a hire outfit, with one on their fleet?
Looking forward to your views!
I have a CSL and have had almost all the M cars prior to it and I think the E30 tops the tree. The CSL is obviously quicker and a brilliant car, a bloody brilliant car in fact but the older car still does it for me. In fact the buying plan for the CSL was to sell the E30, its still here
Of course it all depends what you expect or want from the car as to whether you will find it good or not, if you expect it to be modern day quick it isn't, but if you want a balanced tactile drive where every little input you make has a reaction then I've not driven any other car that matches it.
I sold my first one for the 964 and the day it left I knew I would have to buy another one at some stage, I did about 7 years ago and I couldn't bring myself to sell it even when the CSL arrived.
If you were close you could have had a shot in it but I don't know of anyone who rents one.
ETA. The current value of these cars is a discussion in itself and I think it's a big shame that prices have done what they have due to all the associated effects that has. Are the cars brilliant ? Yes Are they worth what they are currently being advertised for ? Only a potential buyer can decide that.
Edited by mark.c on Friday 23 January 18:12
I owned one for 5 years. From mid 2000.
Paid £7.5K 1987 standard 2.3 Spent about £2K on it (timing chain, it badly needed doing) and a few bodywork things to keep it mint. There was a £10K rule. Buy a mint one for £10K or but a cheaper one and spend the difference putting it right.
By modern standards:
They aint that fast.
They aint that comfy.
They can be costly when things go wrong.
They rust as I found out.
They put a massive grin on your face at full revvs :-) The handling is amazing :-) I loved the dogleg gear box, it seemed very natural to use. The build quality was pretty good (apart from rust issues)
If you want something rare and different get one, I'd have another but not at todays prices, no way.
Max I'd pay £15K for a mint 2.3/2.5ltr £12K for a one that needs work.
Max £20K for an sport evo.
I currently have a 911 1998 (996 3.4) Paid £11500 and love it. Faster, great handling, modern comforts, less bodywork issues.
Think about it, nobody really remembers the E30M3 as a great touring car things have moved on so why the current values? £80K+ for an sport evo? get a real supercar.. Ferrari for example.
Just my opinion as a previous owner :-) Oh I sold mine for £5k when the market for them flopped. No real regrets apart from if I hung on I could have sold it now for £25k+
I drove 1 other M car, an E36 3.0 wasn't that good. In my opinion BMW have devalued the M brand too much.
I remember buying an M3 badge (mine was missing) I had to take the car AND the log book to prove to BMW I had an M car and owned it. Not now.
Off to find the keys for my ///M3,316ise :-)
All my opinion and I fully respect others have different views:-)
Paid £7.5K 1987 standard 2.3 Spent about £2K on it (timing chain, it badly needed doing) and a few bodywork things to keep it mint. There was a £10K rule. Buy a mint one for £10K or but a cheaper one and spend the difference putting it right.
By modern standards:
They aint that fast.
They aint that comfy.
They can be costly when things go wrong.
They rust as I found out.
They put a massive grin on your face at full revvs :-) The handling is amazing :-) I loved the dogleg gear box, it seemed very natural to use. The build quality was pretty good (apart from rust issues)
If you want something rare and different get one, I'd have another but not at todays prices, no way.
Max I'd pay £15K for a mint 2.3/2.5ltr £12K for a one that needs work.
Max £20K for an sport evo.
I currently have a 911 1998 (996 3.4) Paid £11500 and love it. Faster, great handling, modern comforts, less bodywork issues.
Think about it, nobody really remembers the E30M3 as a great touring car things have moved on so why the current values? £80K+ for an sport evo? get a real supercar.. Ferrari for example.
Just my opinion as a previous owner :-) Oh I sold mine for £5k when the market for them flopped. No real regrets apart from if I hung on I could have sold it now for £25k+
I drove 1 other M car, an E36 3.0 wasn't that good. In my opinion BMW have devalued the M brand too much.
I remember buying an M3 badge (mine was missing) I had to take the car AND the log book to prove to BMW I had an M car and owned it. Not now.
Off to find the keys for my ///M3,316ise :-)
All my opinion and I fully respect others have different views:-)
Edited by 528Sport on Friday 23 January 20:03
Edited by 528Sport on Friday 23 January 20:04
528Sport said:
Think about it, nobody really remembers the E30M3 as a great touring car things have moved on so why the current values? £80K+ for an sport evo? get a real supercar.. Ferrari for example.
I think the people buying E30's do remember though. It's guys in their 40/50's with disposable income that grew up watching them racing on a Saturday afternoon. Once cars reach classic status, the performance etc becomes less important and it's more about the experience and emotion IMHO. For example, why by a DB4 when it would have it's arse handed to it by a cheap DB7 (or a 118D for that matter)?
benny.c said:
528Sport said:
Think about it, nobody really remembers the E30M3 as a great touring car things have moved on so why the current values? £80K+ for an sport evo? get a real supercar.. Ferrari for example.
I think the people buying E30's do remember though. It's guys in their 40/50's with disposable income that grew up watching them racing on a Saturday afternoon. Once cars reach classic status, the performance etc becomes less important and it's more about the experience and emotion IMHO. For example, why by a DB4 when it would have it's arse handed to it by a cheap DB7 (or a 118D for that matter)?
528Sport said:
I owned one for 5 years. From mid 2000.
Paid £7.5K 1987 standard 2.3 Spent about £2K on it (timing chain, it badly needed doing) and a few bodywork things to keep it mint. There was a £10K rule. Buy a mint one for £10K or but a cheaper one and spend the difference putting it right.
By modern standards:
They aint that fast.
They aint that comfy.
They can be costly when things go wrong.
They rust as I found out.
They put a massive grin on your face at full revvs :-) The handling is amazing :-) I loved the dogleg gear box, it seemed very natural to use. The build quality was pretty good (apart from rust issues)
If you want something rare and different get one, I'd have another but not at todays prices, no way.
Max I'd pay £15K for a mint 2.3/2.5ltr £12K for a one that needs work.
Max £20K for an sport evo.
I currently have a 911 1998 (996 3.4) Paid £11500 and love it. Faster, great handling, modern comforts, less bodywork issues.
Think about it, nobody really remembers the E30M3 as a great touring car things have moved on so why the current values? £80K+ for an sport evo? get a real supercar.. Ferrari for example.
Just my opinion as a previous owner :-) Oh I sold mine for £5k when the market for them flopped. No real regrets apart from if I hung on I could have sold it now for £25k+
I drove 1 other M car, an E36 3.0 wasn't that good. In my opinion BMW have devalued the M brand too much.
I remember buying an M3 badge (mine was missing) I had to take the car AND the log book to prove to BMW I had an M car and owned it. Not now.
Off to find the keys for my ///M3,316ise :-)
All my opinion and I fully respect others have different views:-)
Was it the 100k miles timing chain myth?Paid £7.5K 1987 standard 2.3 Spent about £2K on it (timing chain, it badly needed doing) and a few bodywork things to keep it mint. There was a £10K rule. Buy a mint one for £10K or but a cheaper one and spend the difference putting it right.
By modern standards:
They aint that fast.
They aint that comfy.
They can be costly when things go wrong.
They rust as I found out.
They put a massive grin on your face at full revvs :-) The handling is amazing :-) I loved the dogleg gear box, it seemed very natural to use. The build quality was pretty good (apart from rust issues)
If you want something rare and different get one, I'd have another but not at todays prices, no way.
Max I'd pay £15K for a mint 2.3/2.5ltr £12K for a one that needs work.
Max £20K for an sport evo.
I currently have a 911 1998 (996 3.4) Paid £11500 and love it. Faster, great handling, modern comforts, less bodywork issues.
Think about it, nobody really remembers the E30M3 as a great touring car things have moved on so why the current values? £80K+ for an sport evo? get a real supercar.. Ferrari for example.
Just my opinion as a previous owner :-) Oh I sold mine for £5k when the market for them flopped. No real regrets apart from if I hung on I could have sold it now for £25k+
I drove 1 other M car, an E36 3.0 wasn't that good. In my opinion BMW have devalued the M brand too much.
I remember buying an M3 badge (mine was missing) I had to take the car AND the log book to prove to BMW I had an M car and owned it. Not now.
Off to find the keys for my ///M3,316ise :-)
All my opinion and I fully respect others have different views:-)
Edited by 528Sport on Friday 23 January 20:03
Edited by 528Sport on Friday 23 January 20:04
r4_rick said:
Morning all
Thanks for all the replies, going for a second view and a test drive this morning, seller is able to put it on a ramp for me, any other things to look out for ?
I prepared this for a friend who was looking at one a while back…..Thanks for all the replies, going for a second view and a test drive this morning, seller is able to put it on a ramp for me, any other things to look out for ?
1. Front inner wheel arches where they meet the chassis - One side is under the washer reservoir and will rust if it's been leaking (both sides can go though). You can just see under the reservoir but it's a quick job to move it out of the way if the owner doesn't mind.
2. Cross rail can rust if the rad has been leaking (or just anyway!).
3. Top of strut tower where it meets the chassis.
4. Bulkhead - This is a crucial one and it's difficult to see. The area under the fuse box can rot along with the vertical part of the bulkhead beneath it. This can happen both sides but is particularly common on the fuse box side. Look for evidence of repair in this area from the engine bay side. Then you need to look from within the car, beneath the dashboard. You need to look up as high as you can behind the pedals to view as much of the bulkhead as you can as you can't see it from the engine bay. Ditto for the passenger side and you'll need a torch. The bulkhead panel is NLA.
5. Scuttle panel - Ideally ask the owner to remove the scuttle vent (one side is easy, the other involves removing the wiper so he may not want to do it). Falling that, shine a torch through the vent. This is one of the most common area of rust on an E30 so ask the owner if the scuttle has been done before. If the scuttle is gone then there is a fair chance that the bulkhead is not good either.
6 Inner Arch / chassis jacking point - There is a box under the chassis at the front of the car which often gets crushed or damaged when jacking, and then rusts. If it's been repaired before then the box may have been removed.
7 Footwells and floors - Leaking scuttles and windscreens can mean a rotten floor and the panels are all NLA. If there is any sign of condensation in the car then it's likely the floors will be wet. Ideally pull some of the carpet up to inspect but it is so well fitted this is very difficult.
8. Rear inner arches - Another really common one and a pig to fix. Sometimes visible from underneath where the inner arch meets the outer arch but ideally you want to have the rear trim cards off to see it properly (a five minute job).
9. Sunroof panel - Blocked drain holes and leaking seals can rot the roof from the inside. First evidence is usually blistering on the roof externally around the sun roof by which time it's probably horrible under the headlining. A rusty sunroof mechanism is usually a bad sign.
10. Battery tray - Take a look from underneath and ideally from inside if you can. Another common one!
11. Boot floor and rear panel - Usually not too bad but the rear panel can go under the bumper.
12. Rear hoop - Any damage to the hoop around the rear screen will be expensive to put right as these are NLA.
13. Sills - Rot nicely from the inside, under the bodykit. Ideally take a look from inside if they owner will remove plastic sill trim and lift carpet. A bit difficult to tell otherwise.
That's probably enough to be going on with. Main headaches are definitely floors, bulkhead and rear inner arches. Scuttle is common but not to bad a job to replace. Most external panels are still available and not too expensive from the main dealer.
The engine will usually sound like a rattly, tappitty bag of spanners at tick over but should be smooth and sound sweet about 4.5K.
Don't know if you've driven one before but don't expect too much on a short test drive. I was very underwhelmed when I purchased mine as it felt relatively slow and hard work initially. It's definitely a car that grows on you over time, rather than blows you away on a 20 minute test drive.
Out of all the 'interesting' cars I've had, my e30m3 was the one that impressed least initially, but impressed most after a few weeks of ownership. It doesn't have the simple visceral thrill of a 911 or even something rorty (but ultimately unimpressive) like a TVR, but it's so fulfilling and rewarding and i'm pining after another. For £25 odd thousand, now that 911s are out of that price range, I'm not sure what else there is. Everything about it is special - the homologation bit, and everything about the way the car is set up. I still have a z4m and and old e30 325i and the e30 M3 is in another league for race bred purity.
Edited by billywhizzzzzz on Saturday 24th January 19:46
Benny.c
Thanks for that, checked some of these areas, but will use your plan on our next trip.
just took it for s short drive, immediate impressions were , wow this feels like driving ! A lot to get used to lhd and the gearbox, but it felt alive and connected, would love to try one with warm tyres and a dry road !
I've had a 318is my only dilemma is that this will cost nearly 40 times what i paid for the iS, hhhmmm that's one hell of a multiple, that's making me stop and think ! I guess a well sorted 318is would be 3k, but they are a little underpowered IMHO
Thanks for that, checked some of these areas, but will use your plan on our next trip.
just took it for s short drive, immediate impressions were , wow this feels like driving ! A lot to get used to lhd and the gearbox, but it felt alive and connected, would love to try one with warm tyres and a dry road !
I've had a 318is my only dilemma is that this will cost nearly 40 times what i paid for the iS, hhhmmm that's one hell of a multiple, that's making me stop and think ! I guess a well sorted 318is would be 3k, but they are a little underpowered IMHO
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