F80 M3 12,000 miles findings
Discussion
corvettedave said:
The JM said:
Overall I have averaged 26.6 mpg. I do lots of short trips around north Devon and then big 300 -500 mile trips on the motorways. On long motorway drives it averages 35- 37 mpg at normal motorway speeds. My last E46 M3 averaged 23 mpg with the same use. The E60 M5 did 18 mpg.
that's damn good for a 400bhp + car, thanks for info, m3 maybe a option for the futureTo get that from an M3 is amazing.
W8PMC said:
Always gonna be haters my friend.
The whole point of these cars (meaning M's in general) is they're meant to be very good at everything. Fair enough they won't for that reason excel in most areas but no car can.
Example (owing to having owned both) the R35 GT-R is an epic car & truly is a Supercar beater (in terms of performance), however the build quality isn't great, interior very Japanese plastic & looks dated, ride quality not so good & does get tedious on long journeys, however it does go like s
t of the proverbial shovel.
The F10 M5 can offer up 90%+ of the performance of the R35 GT-R, but all the other factors i note above the M5 is considerably better, however these 2 cars still get pitched against each other & often it's how many G's can they pull while cornering & how quickly can they get to 100mph so for that the GT-R will always come out on top.
The M3 will be placed alongside cars such as Caymans & the like so the same will apply, but journos & those taking a 15min test drive really don't give a toss about how comfy a car is, the fact it can do 400 on a tank, can waft down to the South of France in total comfort, but still give it's more track focused cousins a run for their money.
For me the M5 does everything & for my needs it ticks every box. For some it of course won't.
Let's not forget the M3/4 even got the TG seal of approval last week, as the F10did last year so they can't be all that bad.
I thought the M division was the hard core of the BMW range. Surely there are other BMW's in the range that do the all round stuff. Also the TG seal of approval, please!The whole point of these cars (meaning M's in general) is they're meant to be very good at everything. Fair enough they won't for that reason excel in most areas but no car can.
Example (owing to having owned both) the R35 GT-R is an epic car & truly is a Supercar beater (in terms of performance), however the build quality isn't great, interior very Japanese plastic & looks dated, ride quality not so good & does get tedious on long journeys, however it does go like s
t of the proverbial shovel.The F10 M5 can offer up 90%+ of the performance of the R35 GT-R, but all the other factors i note above the M5 is considerably better, however these 2 cars still get pitched against each other & often it's how many G's can they pull while cornering & how quickly can they get to 100mph so for that the GT-R will always come out on top.
The M3 will be placed alongside cars such as Caymans & the like so the same will apply, but journos & those taking a 15min test drive really don't give a toss about how comfy a car is, the fact it can do 400 on a tank, can waft down to the South of France in total comfort, but still give it's more track focused cousins a run for their money.
For me the M5 does everything & for my needs it ticks every box. For some it of course won't.
Let's not forget the M3/4 even got the TG seal of approval last week, as the F10did last year so they can't be all that bad.
Nice write up though.
The genius of the M-boffins is that they are able to provide cars with such split-personalities.
One minute the F10 M5 can be a widow-maker (Sport+ everything, no traction control etc) which can scare you witless and fling you and four passengers down the road at Porsche GT2/Ferrari F40 levels of acceleration. Yet the next minute that same car can cruise along the motorway (in Efficient mode) at 100+ with near Rolls Royce levels of refinement and comfort.
The M5 is the finest car I've owned and I'd have no hesitation in buying an M3/4. These cars are perfect for my needs - long may BMW continue building them.
One minute the F10 M5 can be a widow-maker (Sport+ everything, no traction control etc) which can scare you witless and fling you and four passengers down the road at Porsche GT2/Ferrari F40 levels of acceleration. Yet the next minute that same car can cruise along the motorway (in Efficient mode) at 100+ with near Rolls Royce levels of refinement and comfort.
The M5 is the finest car I've owned and I'd have no hesitation in buying an M3/4. These cars are perfect for my needs - long may BMW continue building them.
Andy M said:
The genius of the M-boffins is that they are able to provide cars with such split-personalities.
One minute the F10 M5 can be a widow-maker (Sport+ everything, no traction control etc) which can scare you witless and fling you and four passengers down the road at Porsche GT2/Ferrari F40 levels of acceleration. Yet the next minute that same car can cruise along the motorway (in Efficient mode) at 100+ with near Rolls Royce levels of refinement and comfort.
The M5 is the finest car I've owned and I'd have no hesitation in buying an M3/4. These cars are perfect for my needs - long may BMW continue building them.
Good summary, current crop of cars will soon be the last 2wd cars I expect.One minute the F10 M5 can be a widow-maker (Sport+ everything, no traction control etc) which can scare you witless and fling you and four passengers down the road at Porsche GT2/Ferrari F40 levels of acceleration. Yet the next minute that same car can cruise along the motorway (in Efficient mode) at 100+ with near Rolls Royce levels of refinement and comfort.
The M5 is the finest car I've owned and I'd have no hesitation in buying an M3/4. These cars are perfect for my needs - long may BMW continue building them.
I believe that BMW will soon offer a 4wd version, but to sit alongside the rwd model.
I'll be honest, there has been more than one occasion this year when I've wished the M5 was 4wd. Wheel-spin at 90+ isn't massively welcomed, and the flicker of the traction control light at this time of year is enough to give you a migraine. But when you get the car into its natural flow, with just the smallest amount of tail action, there's no other way you'd want the car.
If I could change two things about the M5 it would be to reduce weight, and to have a marginally quicker steering rack (I'm told the CP addresses this).
I'll be honest, there has been more than one occasion this year when I've wished the M5 was 4wd. Wheel-spin at 90+ isn't massively welcomed, and the flicker of the traction control light at this time of year is enough to give you a migraine. But when you get the car into its natural flow, with just the smallest amount of tail action, there's no other way you'd want the car.
If I could change two things about the M5 it would be to reduce weight, and to have a marginally quicker steering rack (I'm told the CP addresses this).
Andy M said:
I believe that BMW will soon offer a 4wd version, but to sit alongside the rwd model.
I'll be honest, there has been more than one occasion this year when I've wished the M5 was 4wd. Wheel-spin at 90+ isn't massively welcomed, and the flicker of the traction control light at this time of year is enough to give you a migraine. But when you get the car into its natural flow, with just the smallest amount of tail action, there's no other way you'd want the car.
If I could change two things about the M5 it would be to reduce weight, and to have a marginally quicker steering rack (I'm told the CP addresses this).
Maybe the cars are getting a bit too powerful for the public roads people forget what sports cars are about, they are sport cars not race cars. Minimising ring times plus lowering emissions does not equal more driving pleasure. I've not been at all tempted to upgrade to the new M4, was interested in the Gt4 but that's not available and for now sticking with an e92 m3. I'll be honest, there has been more than one occasion this year when I've wished the M5 was 4wd. Wheel-spin at 90+ isn't massively welcomed, and the flicker of the traction control light at this time of year is enough to give you a migraine. But when you get the car into its natural flow, with just the smallest amount of tail action, there's no other way you'd want the car.
If I could change two things about the M5 it would be to reduce weight, and to have a marginally quicker steering rack (I'm told the CP addresses this).
BigLion said:
Interesting read, OP how are you finding it now almost a year or two on?
I have just past 35,000 miles in the car. It remains amazingly good. Since writing my original post 4 friends of mine who have experienced my car, have subsequently gone out and purchased their own, all of them love their cars, especially the chap who came out of his Golf R.I should be changing the car within the next 6 months but think I will keep it instead as I can't think of anything other than a brand new one to replace it with. I tried the new Merc C63s and found it to be so dead and heavy feeling just as the last C63, a very nice car, but not a drivers car. The new Alfa looks great but the fact their website does not work and the dealer did not know which car I was talking about let alone being able to book a test drive, could be indicative of the potential ownership experience.
My car is still on its original brake pads and discs! They have not got long left but I find it amazing after a few track days and a lot of fast road motoring. Its is also very kind on its tires considering the performance and the way I drive it. My favourite time driving the car is in the wet. It is very fast in the wet, but so exciting being able to adjust your line with the throttle at ALL speeds. On the way home from work there is one 3rd gear uphill right hand corner that is clear sighted, rain or sun I arrive home a very happy man when I have had a clear run through that corner! For me its the cars ability to put a smile on my face in the way I have just described, and then waft down the motorway doing 34 mpg 4 up in comfort, or with my mountain bike in the back with the seats folded down, that makes it such a great everyday car. IMO It covers both extremes of use a lot better than any M3 before it.
My 35,000 miles and experience in other people F80 M3's has led me to my ultimate spec if I order a new one. Comp pack, DCT, Carbon brakes, LED lights, HK stereo, comfort access. Just a shame very few people choose all these options as I would prefer not to take the full hit of depreciation on my next car..
At under £40k used cars are a serious performance bargain, buy one today!
The JM said:
BigLion said:
Interesting read, OP how are you finding it now almost a year or two on?
I have just past 35,000 miles in the car. It remains amazingly good. Since writing my original post 4 friends of mine who have experienced my car, have subsequently gone out and purchased their own, all of them love their cars, especially the chap who came out of his Golf R.I should be changing the car within the next 6 months but think I will keep it instead as I can't think of anything other than a brand new one to replace it with. I tried the new Merc C63s and found it to be so dead and heavy feeling just as the last C63, a very nice car, but not a drivers car. The new Alfa looks great but the fact their website does not work and the dealer did not know which car I was talking about let alone being able to book a test drive, could be indicative of the potential ownership experience.
My car is still on its original brake pads and discs! They have not got long left but I find it amazing after a few track days and a lot of fast road motoring. Its is also very kind on its tires considering the performance and the way I drive it. My favourite time driving the car is in the wet. It is very fast in the wet, but so exciting being able to adjust your line with the throttle at ALL speeds. On the way home from work there is one 3rd gear uphill right hand corner that is clear sighted, rain or sun I arrive home a very happy man when I have had a clear run through that corner! For me its the cars ability to put a smile on my face in the way I have just described, and then waft down the motorway doing 34 mpg 4 up in comfort, or with my mountain bike in the back with the seats folded down, that makes it such a great everyday car. IMO It covers both extremes of use a lot better than any M3 before it.
My 35,000 miles and experience in other people F80 M3's has led me to my ultimate spec if I order a new one. Comp pack, DCT, Carbon brakes, LED lights, HK stereo, comfort access. Just a shame very few people choose all these options as I would prefer not to take the full hit of depreciation on my next car..
At under £40k used cars are a serious performance bargain, buy one today!
How have you found traction?
Some people say the m3 is very skittish and will fish tail even in 3rd?
I'm not a brilliant driver (to that extent) so hoping to hear that it is fine !
BigLion said:
The JM said:
BigLion said:
Interesting read, OP how are you finding it now almost a year or two on?
I have just past 35,000 miles in the car. It remains amazingly good. Since writing my original post 4 friends of mine who have experienced my car, have subsequently gone out and purchased their own, all of them love their cars, especially the chap who came out of his Golf R.I should be changing the car within the next 6 months but think I will keep it instead as I can't think of anything other than a brand new one to replace it with. I tried the new Merc C63s and found it to be so dead and heavy feeling just as the last C63, a very nice car, but not a drivers car. The new Alfa looks great but the fact their website does not work and the dealer did not know which car I was talking about let alone being able to book a test drive, could be indicative of the potential ownership experience.
My car is still on its original brake pads and discs! They have not got long left but I find it amazing after a few track days and a lot of fast road motoring. Its is also very kind on its tires considering the performance and the way I drive it. My favourite time driving the car is in the wet. It is very fast in the wet, but so exciting being able to adjust your line with the throttle at ALL speeds. On the way home from work there is one 3rd gear uphill right hand corner that is clear sighted, rain or sun I arrive home a very happy man when I have had a clear run through that corner! For me its the cars ability to put a smile on my face in the way I have just described, and then waft down the motorway doing 34 mpg 4 up in comfort, or with my mountain bike in the back with the seats folded down, that makes it such a great everyday car. IMO It covers both extremes of use a lot better than any M3 before it.
My 35,000 miles and experience in other people F80 M3's has led me to my ultimate spec if I order a new one. Comp pack, DCT, Carbon brakes, LED lights, HK stereo, comfort access. Just a shame very few people choose all these options as I would prefer not to take the full hit of depreciation on my next car..
At under £40k used cars are a serious performance bargain, buy one today!
How have you found traction?
Some people say the m3 is very skittish and will fish tail even in 3rd?
I'm not a brilliant driver (to that extent) so hoping to hear that it is fine !
Traction is very strong wet or dry, but the torque is even stronger! With a sensible approach to throttle application it is possible to make extremely rapid acceleration in the lower gears, however if you simply smash the throttle to the floor with the traction control off then you can spin the tires through the first 3 gears.
A friend who came to his M3 from a Golf R was shocked by what he perceived to be a lack of traction. In fact many people who took short autumn / winter test drives felt the same way and this started a negative vibe about the car. What my friend has come to realize is that you have to drive the M3 with your head and use your senses to work out how much throttle you can use given the conditions you have at that time. I strongly suggest that people who are not prepared to drive with this approach buy something else as otherwise they will be disappointed or sat in a bush.
A good friend of mine had a 991 GTS, he is a better driver than I am, but on a cold damp morning I could easily keep pace with him and gap him when in front. I think this should answer your question about traction. If the M3 can travel quicker than a 4 wheel drive Porsche in damp conditions in part due to it coming out of corners faster, then I think it has plenty of traction! Amongst his collection of cars now sits a comp pack M3, which gets driven a lot more than anything else..
If you do buy one, then I strongly suggest sticking to M dynamic Mode on the Traction control until you have a really good feel for how much torque you can deploy in any given conditions. MDM will allow some slip and wheel spin, but it will not allow you to get too out of shape. You can learn to balance your inputs against its intervention until you (potentially) feel the need to turn it off altogether. This will be a great way to safely develop your skills.
The JM said:
No worries.
Traction is very strong wet or dry, but the torque is even stronger! With a sensible approach to throttle application it is possible to make extremely rapid acceleration in the lower gears, however if you simply smash the throttle to the floor with the traction control off then you can spin the tires through the first 3 gears.
A friend who came to his M3 from a Golf R was shocked by what he perceived to be a lack of traction. In fact many people who took short autumn / winter test drives felt the same way and this started a negative vibe about the car. What my friend has come to realize is that you have to drive the M3 with your head and use your senses to work out how much throttle you can use given the conditions you have at that time. I strongly suggest that people who are not prepared to drive with this approach buy something else as otherwise they will be disappointed or sat in a bush.
A good friend of mine had a 991 GTS, he is a better driver than I am, but on a cold damp morning I could easily keep pace with him and gap him when in front. I think this should answer your question about traction. If the M3 can travel quicker than a 4 wheel drive Porsche in damp conditions in part due to it coming out of corners faster, then I think it has plenty of traction! Amongst his collection of cars now sits a comp pack M3, which gets driven a lot more than anything else..
If you do buy one, then I strongly suggest sticking to M dynamic Mode on the Traction control until you have a really good feel for how much torque you can deploy in any given conditions. MDM will allow some slip and wheel spin, but it will not allow you to get too out of shape. You can learn to balance your inputs against its intervention until you (potentially) feel the need to turn it off altogether. This will be a great way to safely develop your skills.
Thanks once again - very interesting read and will help with my decision making Traction is very strong wet or dry, but the torque is even stronger! With a sensible approach to throttle application it is possible to make extremely rapid acceleration in the lower gears, however if you simply smash the throttle to the floor with the traction control off then you can spin the tires through the first 3 gears.
A friend who came to his M3 from a Golf R was shocked by what he perceived to be a lack of traction. In fact many people who took short autumn / winter test drives felt the same way and this started a negative vibe about the car. What my friend has come to realize is that you have to drive the M3 with your head and use your senses to work out how much throttle you can use given the conditions you have at that time. I strongly suggest that people who are not prepared to drive with this approach buy something else as otherwise they will be disappointed or sat in a bush.
A good friend of mine had a 991 GTS, he is a better driver than I am, but on a cold damp morning I could easily keep pace with him and gap him when in front. I think this should answer your question about traction. If the M3 can travel quicker than a 4 wheel drive Porsche in damp conditions in part due to it coming out of corners faster, then I think it has plenty of traction! Amongst his collection of cars now sits a comp pack M3, which gets driven a lot more than anything else..
If you do buy one, then I strongly suggest sticking to M dynamic Mode on the Traction control until you have a really good feel for how much torque you can deploy in any given conditions. MDM will allow some slip and wheel spin, but it will not allow you to get too out of shape. You can learn to balance your inputs against its intervention until you (potentially) feel the need to turn it off altogether. This will be a great way to safely develop your skills.
The JM said:
A good friend of mine had a 991 GTS, he is a better driver than I am, but on a cold damp morning I could easily keep pace with him and gap him when in front. I think this should answer your question about traction. If the M3 can travel quicker than a 4 wheel drive Porsche in damp conditions in part due to it coming out of corners faster, then I think it has plenty of traction!
You were doing so well until you got to this point. There is no universe in which an M3 is quicker coming out of corners than a 991 GTS in damp conditions...or better traction in any conditions for that matter. Hanging a massive weight over the 911's rear wheels has that benefit.The traction of the 2016 M4 I drove for a day was quite poor - It seems like the E diff is a step back from the previous mechanical version..or maybe handicapped by immature software.
I don't mind a bit of power induced wheelspin at all, but the point of an LSD is to lock up both wheels when one wheel starts to spin - in the M4 what you often get is one wheel spins up and the TC kicks in and cuts the power back.
Sure by being careful with your right foot you can avoid that but it is unpleasant and annoying.
Edited by Max Maxasson on Sunday 13th November 12:26
Max Maxasson said:
The JM said:
A good friend of mine had a 991 GTS, he is a better driver than I am, but on a cold damp morning I could easily keep pace with him and gap him when in front. I think this should answer your question about traction. If the M3 can travel quicker than a 4 wheel drive Porsche in damp conditions in part due to it coming out of corners faster, then I think it has plenty of traction!
You were doing so well until you got to this point. There is no universe in which an M3 is quicker coming out of corners than a 991 GTS in damp conditions...or better traction in any conditions for that matter. Hanging a massive weight over the 911's rear wheels has that benefit.The traction of the 2016 M4 I drove for a day was quite poor - It seems like the E diff is a step back from the previous mechanical version..or maybe handicapped by immature software.
I don't mind a bit of power induced wheelspin at all, but the point of an LSD is to lock up both wheels when one wheel starts to spin - in the M4 what you often get is one wheel spins up and the TC kicks in and cuts the power back.
Sure by being careful with your right foot you can avoid that but it is unpleasant and annoying.
Edited by Max Maxasson on Sunday 13th November 12:26
The last M3 to have a mechanical diff with no electronic control was the E36, all subsiquent models (E46, E90) including the current cars have an electronical control mechanical diff, quite different from an e-diff in something like a Jag which uses the rear brakes to simulate a differential. As a result the diff can vary from fully open to 100% locked. I guess if you have the traction control on it never bothers locking the diff up as you obviously do not want the car to slide hence your feeling of it momentarily spinning up one wheel only?
The JM said:
whilst I am sure the 991 GTS has more traction overall,
The 911 does indeed have considerably better traction overall, a different league of traction...its what keeps it on the road even with models boasting much higher bhp levels and 2wd.The JM said:
The last M3 to have a mechanical diff with no electronic control was the E36, all subsiquent models (E46, E90) including the current cars have an electronical control mechanical diff, quite different from an e-diff in something like a Jag which uses the rear brakes to simulate a differential. As a result the diff can vary from fully open to 100% locked. I guess if you have the traction control on it never bothers locking the diff up as you obviously do not want the car to slide hence your feeling of it momentarily spinning up one wheel only?
Well no...AFAIK the Variable M-differential lock as used in the E46 and E9x M3s does not have an electronic control unit to control the torque distribution. They have a shear pump - simply put, when one wheel spins up it drives the pump which locks up a multi plate clutch which transfers torque to the not spinning wheel.The F8x M3/4 uses an electronic unit to control the clutch plate locking and torque transfer aka an Electronic differential or active differential..
Leaving aside my own experience...there has just been posted today a thread on M3cutters from an 2016 M4 CP owner complaining of "Axle tramp and inconsistent grip levels"...so its not only me.
Typical BMW going with newer tech when the old tech diff works great (with the right oil - not that crappy BMW oil with FM booster).
Up to the moment I drove the M4 it was a shoe in for my next car purchase...the E92 M3 is a great car but after 8 years enough is enough...so now I'm left in a quandary, risk buying an M4 and hope that it grows on me or go for something else. The new Afa maybe?
Edited by Max Maxasson on Wednesday 16th November 15:55
I've had the cold start mapped out on my E60 M5 and it's lovely and quiet now from cold. Have heard the F80 from cold and it sounds tragic,loud but a horrible sound. Wouldn't put me off buying one but I would probably get it mapped out. It's only their to meet EU regulations. Although it warms the cats up quicker it does no harm deleting it.
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