E46 fi vs e92 m3 track car

[stef1808]

Hello
Thinking of getting a dedicated track car and narrowed it down to e46 supercharged m3 or a 92. Both will be stripped and suspension and brakes etc done.
Is the e46 being lighter than the e92 such an advantage
And
Can anyone recommend a good garage in London to speak with and prob get to build the car?
Thanks

Edited by stef1808 on Sunday 15th March 16:23

[kiethton]

Maybe try these guys:

http://www.technosport.co.uk/racing/index.html

They have racing versions of both and are a well respected BMW indi (NW London)

[pidsy]

kiethton said:

Maybe try these guys:

http://www.technosport.co.uk/racing/index.html

They have racing versions of both and are a well respected BMW indi (NW London)

i second that - george and the guys at Technosport will be able to advise/build. their e46 racecar is a serious piece of kit.

secondly, get over to M3cutters and speak to the guys on there. there are some lovely track cars built by members.

[stef1808]

thx for your advice, i spoke to simpsons motorsport and will prob end up taking the car there - sound like serious people

so i decided to go for an e46 and initially spend around 10-12k on it. thinking for that: suspension, brakes, exhaust, strip inside, seats and a harness. eventually will supercharge it.

im test driving a stock e46 on Saturday before sending it to simpsons. anything to watch out for ?

[stef1808]

im really close to buying a car, but last night was reading horror stories about rear subframes cracking on the e46 and lots of general problems on the car (apparently its common that e46s weren't greatly put together?)

starting to think now its worth spending the extra money and go for the e92, advice people!!!

[RobbieM-Evo]

You could save time/money and be taking this out on track by the weekend:

http://forums.m3cutters.co.uk/showthread.php?t=121...

Not my car nor do I know the owner, saw it the other night and thought what a great track toy.

Get yourself over to cutters, loads of info on the E46 M3's, don't be put off by subframe as newer cars are covered by BMW or get it strengthened.

Cheers

[snowley]

As above, I would be tempted to save the hassle and buy that car (or similar).

This way, you get something well setup, and make a huge saving on the purchase price of a clean car plus adding all modifications.

[stef1808]

Good tip, thx

[AW10]

IMHO FI conversions on NA cars for track use can be problematic. The FI conversion puts a lot of heat back into the engine. Not such a big deal for street use where full power tends to just be used in short spurts but on track the heat needs to be managed much more carefully. Best case the ECU protects the engine; worst case it doesn't and something breaks. Plus the predictable throttle response of an NA engine is a plus.

[shim]

AW10 said:

IMHO FI conversions on NA cars for track use can be problematic. The FI conversion puts a lot of heat back into the engine. Not such a big deal for street use where full power tends to just be used in short spurts but on track the heat needs to be managed much more carefully. Best case the ECU protects the engine; worst case it doesn't and something breaks. Plus the predictable throttle response of an NA engine is a plus.

agree

ive never come across a road legal FI E46 that is faster on ttrack than my CSL, and certainly one that can run ithout issues the whole day

[Beedub]

I've run my FI z4m for full days in 25 deg heat, not once or twice either, consistently over the last 6 years through 3 stages of Supercharging.... Not only has it been nothing but relaible but punches well and i mean well above its pay grade!
The car needs alot more maintenance for sure, but Temps are stable and performance is nothing short of astounding... Power delivery is perfect, same curve just moved up the graph, whats not to love? i built this car around the sprint scene which i grew up i, last year with my nankang semi slicks in the ROAD compound ( yes seriously) the car had the class lead nearly all season.... With some proper tyres in place id guess another 2-3 seconds off that time could be possible!

i can only post my experience and the FI one has been all positive for me, the just works so well with the s54. The z4m's cooling setup is different to the e46 so I'm not sure if that helps buts cooling has never been an issue, oil temps pick up after a while but it did that stock tbh, but quickly come down on a cooling lap. With the correct supporting mods the car behaves just like stock for me.

Edited by Beedub on Sunday 29th March 14:16

[stef1808]

Yeah logic tells me heat could be a problem on the track, but having checked the forums, loads of owners (thx beedub ) all seems to run supercharger without a problem.

I ended up buying the m3 above and my first plans for the car is to do a half cage and change the boot+spoiler.
Ill make my mind up after a few track days re the FI route

P.s: ring+spa anyone for next weekend?

[stef1808]

another question. thinking of changing the spoiler and just going for a csl bootlid replica. would you think the lack of downforce would be noticeable?

[rassi]

Well done on getting that track ready E46!

Agree, get rid of that horrendous rear spoiler, any good body shop should be able to plug the holes and repaint. You will not notice any lack of down force (or reduction of lift, rather) but you will make it look 1000x better.

[stef1808]

[stef1808]

So a few track days in and a trip to Nurburgring, I can safely say the e46 is a fantastic car. It's balance just so well, driving it on the limit is great fun - the back end is just so controllable when it starts to get loose its adictive.

At the Ring I'm only about 5-7 seconds slower than my gt3 - that 3.5* camber sure does make it turn in.

It's the power I need to get sorted out now and still considering charging it. With 78k miles on the clock, could be a recipe for trouble. I've been quoted also about 14k for a rebuild(including vanos) and guaranteed 390+ BHP NA. A supercharger should only set me back about 8-10 and seeing people get around 500?

The idea was the keep the car "low budget" but that's gone out the window. What would you do?
Also with these numbers a e92 starts to make sense, guess it's back to the drawing bored

[oxam]

stef1808 said:

So a few track days in and a trip to Nurburgring, I can safely say the e46 is a fantastic car. It's balance just so well, driving it on the limit is great fun - the back end is just so controllable when it starts to get loose its adictive.

At the Ring I'm only about 5-7 seconds slower than my gt3 - that 3.5* camber sure does make it turn in.

It's the power I need to get sorted out now and still considering charging it. With 78k miles on the clock, could be a recipe for trouble. I've been quoted also about 14k for a rebuild(including vanos) and guaranteed 390+ BHP NA. A supercharger should only set me back about 8-10 and seeing people get around 500?

The idea was the keep the car "low budget" but that's gone out the window. What would you do?
Also with these numbers a e92 starts to make sense, guess it's back to the drawing bored

I supercharged mine with 106k miles and did more than 10 drift and track days since, no issues at all. Plenty of cars in the US get supercharged at 100k+ miles and don't have issues neither. It also depends how you map the engine. Evolve did a great job on mine - they saw 470 hp but the intake temps were getting too high as the car heat soaked and at the end they dialled back the timing and settled for 445 hp - I was doing 35 min sessions at Bedford and Brands and never had issues with the oil and water temps. I wouldn't push more than 500hp on a stock engine - that's the limit for the rods and being a dedicated track car you will be asking for trouble. Btw. don't believe the US kits advertising 500+ hp, most of the time they are quoting dynojet numbers which are 10ish% off.
I got a pretty good deal on a VF engineering Stage 2 kit, keep your eyes open on ebay - plenty of kits show up for 2-4k, absolutely no point of spending 7k on a new one. Installing one is easy - half a day max and it's a diy job.