M3/4 in the wet
Discussion
joscal said:
Jazzer]otors said:
Just sold my F10 M5 found traction poor in damp/wet even with heated mps tyres.[/quote
This sounds somewhat pathetic....,,
This why buy a rwd m car and expect it to be 4wd. Mind boggles.This sounds somewhat pathetic....,,
The 335d touring x drive I had as a courtesy car seemed to have quite soft suspension, some local back roads near me which are a bit up and down but a pleasure to negotiate quickly in the Cayenne were quite hard work. It didn't take much to bottom out the sususpension, I assume the M cars are much harder? Still an impressively quick car though and certainly no slouch off the line.
rs4al said:
Have been thinking about a new M3 f80 and was wondering how bad is it in the wet ?
Having had Audi's for most of my driving life I do like the ease of performance in wet conditions. Also having read a few reviews about the TC is very intrusive in the M3 has got me thinking if I would actually enjoy owning one.
I have an F10 M5 and am considering an F80 M3 when my lease is up. I have driven the F80 M3 and F82 M4 a few times. I have owned a few fast AWD cars. On warmed up Michelin PSS tyres on dry roads traction is very good in the Ms but in the wet, relative to AWD, even with Michelin Alpins, traction is relatively poor. If you want maximum traction in the wet, get something with AWD. Obviously, AWD comes with its own disadvantages (weight, balance, steering etc) so you need to decide how important "ease of performance in wet conditions" is to you. Having had Audi's for most of my driving life I do like the ease of performance in wet conditions. Also having read a few reviews about the TC is very intrusive in the M3 has got me thinking if I would actually enjoy owning one.
Edited by ACE997 on Monday 6th April 21:25
My M4 is useless in the wet. The torque comes in so suddenly that the TC kicks in and you look like a fool or you switch it off and pray you dont do unintentional donuts. So many vids on Youtube of M4's losing it in the dry, imagine what its like in the wet. 335d xdrives/S3's etc will be quicker in the wet unless you can drive like schumacher
cringle said:
My M4 is useless in the wet. The torque comes in so suddenly that the TC kicks in and you look like a fool or you switch it off and pray you dont do unintentional donuts. So many vids on Youtube of M4's losing it in the dry, imagine what its like in the wet. 335d xdrives/S3's etc will be quicker in the wet unless you can drive like schumacher
What I've learned in barely 3 weeks with an M5 is that the car only behaves unpredictably and eratically if your inputs are the same. It doesn't take Schumacher to learn to be progressive. It seems some people want theirs cars Playstation-esque with a binary X button instead of a long throttle.As a biker who rides in advanced group on trackdays I dont need to be taught about progressive throttle inputs. I do a lot of city driving and pulling out of junctions quickly inthe wet is a ballache in the M4. A few wks ago when it was colder, i remember the TC flashing when changing from 3rd to 4th on the mway with an outside temp of 4C (coldish tyres). WithTC off it would have been interesting. The M5/M6 have a more linear torque delivery especially at lower rpm which is why you probably dont get the same issues. Incidentally i went for a drive up the Cat and Fiddle yesterday with an F80 M3, an S3 and a Golf R. A very twisty and fairly dangerous road for those unfamiliar with it. The Golf R was as near as dammit fast as the M3/4. And if that isn't a "real world" test I dont know what is.
cringle said:
As a biker who rides in advanced group on trackdays I dont need to be taught about progressive throttle inputs. I do a lot of city driving and pulling out of junctions quickly inthe wet is a ballache in the M4. A few wks ago when it was colder, i remember the TC flashing when changing from 3rd to 4th on the mway with an outside temp of 4C (coldish tyres). WithTC off it would have been interesting. The M5/M6 have a more linear torque delivery especially at lower rpm which is why you probably dont get the same issues. Incidentally i went for a drive up the Cat and Fiddle yesterday with an F80 M3, an S3 and a Golf R. A very twisty and fairly dangerous road for those unfamiliar with it. The Golf R was as near as dammit fast as the M3/4. And if that isn't a "real world" test I dont know what is.
I stand corrected if the M3/4 is that nonlinear in its torque. I certainly agree these cars are compromised in the wet but useless sounds dismissive - as a biker I'd have thought these AWD 'go fast anywhere' cars would bore you senseless! I have a Golf R arriving next month so it'll be interesting to get a feel for comparative performance in less than perfect conditions.Does get very boring this 'RWD cars are impossible to drive in the wet' as it's total BS.
No matter what you're driving, you turn the wick down when the conditions dictate. If you drive a 991 Turbo S or a C7 RS6 or heaven forbid even an R35 GT-R the same in the wet as you would in the dry then you'll end up just as dead as you would in a RWD car.
Not sure who wrote pulling out of side roads is a nightmare in an M4, but i've not experienced any embarrassment or difficulty doing such in my F10 M5 & mine's far from stock. Every now & again i get the odd interesting wiggle in the dry at speed, but i know it's coming & what's to be expected from the huge wall of torque.
I certainly don't switch the TC off away from the track as that would be a little bit silly, but having owned many AWD cars & a couple of M cars i don't buy into the RWD is bad & AWD is good camp as it's a totally different driving experience & although being RWD may marginally limit progress in the worse driving conditions, it more than makes up for it in other areas. To be honest i of course see the advantages of both & will no doubt have other RWD cars & other AWD cars, however i like the ability to have a multi dimensional driving experience & i find that to be the case with M cars.
No matter what you're driving, you turn the wick down when the conditions dictate. If you drive a 991 Turbo S or a C7 RS6 or heaven forbid even an R35 GT-R the same in the wet as you would in the dry then you'll end up just as dead as you would in a RWD car.
Not sure who wrote pulling out of side roads is a nightmare in an M4, but i've not experienced any embarrassment or difficulty doing such in my F10 M5 & mine's far from stock. Every now & again i get the odd interesting wiggle in the dry at speed, but i know it's coming & what's to be expected from the huge wall of torque.
I certainly don't switch the TC off away from the track as that would be a little bit silly, but having owned many AWD cars & a couple of M cars i don't buy into the RWD is bad & AWD is good camp as it's a totally different driving experience & although being RWD may marginally limit progress in the worse driving conditions, it more than makes up for it in other areas. To be honest i of course see the advantages of both & will no doubt have other RWD cars & other AWD cars, however i like the ability to have a multi dimensional driving experience & i find that to be the case with M cars.
P13TR0 said:
It's a universe in which people who don't own a proper M car say these things to justify their mediocre existence in a 335d....
a 335d is hardly mediocre is it , what hes saying is in real world with traffic and road conditions both are fast enough on the road unless you are driving like an absolute tool 
Lost soul said:
a 335d is hardly mediocre is it , what hes saying is in real world with traffic and road conditions both are fast enough on the road unless you are driving like an absolute tool
It's not all about speed though is it? It's the way the power is delivered and everything else that goes with a high displacement petrol engine.... Plus I would argue that having to wear a hand condom every time you fill up with heavy oil does somewhat constitute a mediocre existence!I've had a 2013 M3 for a few weeks now and haven't had any issues re wet weather traction. Then again, I haven't been stomping on the loud pedal expecting it not to break traction. Although I much prefer my E30 M3, there's no denying just what a competent and fast car the V8 M3 really is. Drive it like a tit and I have no doubt it'll bite though.
If people struggle to drive a RWD car in the wet you need to look at the most likely problem, the driver.
How on earth has the world managed for all these years with RWD, yet now with the advancement in tyres, handling and various driver aids in cars, has RWD become harder?
Cars are going to become even more robotic soon with them having to do every last thing for the driver.
How on earth has the world managed for all these years with RWD, yet now with the advancement in tyres, handling and various driver aids in cars, has RWD become harder?
Cars are going to become even more robotic soon with them having to do every last thing for the driver.
P13TR0 said:
Plus I would argue that having to wear a hand condom every time you fill up with heavy oil does somewhat constitute a mediocre existence!
What crawled up your arse n died?My M3 drinks V Power and gets leathered when I get the chance, my VRS diesel (I used to do 30k miles a year) does 50+mpg when I pick my nipper up on the 6hr drive. I'm not stupid enough to get disiesel all over my hands when I fill it up. Don't think that makes my existence mediocre!
Gassing Station | M Power | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff