E92 M3 or M135i

[dvshannow]

texasjohn said:

So miles away from the claimed 25.2 combined on the newer cars with DCT then!

Thanks for the advice and 535i is one of the others I'm considering so interesting to hear it's a bit dull

Checked MPG on morning drive today over the last 650mi averaged 16.8mpg mostly on country roads and motorway.it's a dct.

[JNW1]

dvshannow said:

Checked MPG on morning drive today over the last 650mi averaged 16.8mpg mostly on country roads and motorway.it's a dct.

16.8mpg?!! Presumably not sparing it the beans to average that sort of mpg?!!

[dvshannow]

JNW1 said:

16.8mpg?!! Presumably not sparing it the beans to average that sort of mpg?!!

I stand corrected was 16.3! Maybe why I keep raving about the car

[cerb4.5lee]

dvshannow said:

JNW1 said:

16.8mpg?!! Presumably not sparing it the beans to average that sort of mpg?!!

I stand corrected was 16.3! Maybe why I keep raving about the car

No wonder and if you are only getting that from it then you are having fun!

[Tony B2]

cerb4.5lee said:

When I had my E92 M3 it just stayed at 21 mpg on the fuel computer regardless over the 10k miles I covered in it but I never reset it while I had it, the problem with it is its not an easy car to drive slowly because its so boring when you do, so you do tend to put your foot down which as with any car isn't great for economy.

Talk about boring.

Do you ever give it a rest on this topic?

One of the delights of the E92 M3 is its exquisite engine, which is exquisite regardless of how fast or hard you drive it.

[cerb4.5lee]

Tony B2 said:

cerb4.5lee said:

When I had my E92 M3 it just stayed at 21 mpg on the fuel computer regardless over the 10k miles I covered in it but I never reset it while I had it, the problem with it is its not an easy car to drive slowly because its so boring when you do, so you do tend to put your foot down which as with any car isn't great for economy.

Talk about boring.

Do you ever give it a rest on this topic?

One of the delights of the E92 M3 is its exquisite engine, which is exquisite regardless of how fast or hard you drive it.

Its only exquisite at the top end as far as I am concerned and happy for you that you love it...I didn't so its just a case of different strokes for different folks.

[Mermaid]

cerb4.5lee said:

Its only exquisite at the top end as far as I am concerned and happy for you that you love it...I didn't so its just a case of different strokes for different folks.

& strokes is what it is all about - the E90/92 4.4 engine is amazing throughout, the 4.0 is not so good low down.

[Welshbeef]

texasjohn said:

So miles away from the claimed 25.2 combined on the newer cars with DCT then!

Thanks for the advice and 535i is one of the others I'm considering so interesting to hear it's a bit dull

Good luck trying to find a 535i only a tiny number were ever made

Try the 545i or 550i more chance to find them plus the 550i is hugely quick.

[EricE]

I test drove a M135i at the local BMW dealer on Friday and the E92 M3 yesterday. To put this into context, our current daily shed is a Mini Cooper S R56 with the "sport suspension" option. The ride is very harsh, more so than it needs to be, but I find it extremely fun to drive - short wheelbase, not much body roll and a fun on the road without having to break the law.

The M135i felt the right size, noticeably larger than the Mini but still compact and wieldy. I was quite impressed by the torque but the very compliant suspension and light steering immediately put me off. The demo car had no adaptive suspension option but the ride was so far from what I expected from a "sporty" hatch that I don't think it would have made a difference. Of course that would make it a great daily driver but coming from the harsh mini, I don't mind some "not-so-sophisticated" damping.
The lack of LSD was quite noticeable around some hairpins in the wet with traction off. Both of these issues can be fixed though, the M135i with a decent KW or Bilstein suspension plus LSD would be a great package.

The M3 felt very big to me initially. The owner was quite encouraging and knew a few nice roads around in his area. Engine wise it really is on a completely different planet than the usual turbo-4 and turbo-6 story you get today.
It also felt better and better the harder drove and seemed to adjust to my driving style as opposed to the 1 series which somehow forced a line on me with it's turn in behaviour and body roll. The M3 just felt like it was more "on my side" whenever I drove a bit quicker, it was much sharper and predictable and thus inspired more confidence.

One downside to the M3 is that it looked more "in your face" than I had hoped. The particular car I'm looking at is a 2008 Coupe, white with carbon roof, black interior, OEM dark grey 18" wheels and 26000 miles without any modifications at all. Maybe it was the colour combination. I would have bought the M3 on the spot if the seller would have been more willing to negotiate.

Neither of the cars felt "fun" to drive in regular traffic (which the Mini does to a degree) but overall I strongly preferred the M3 over the M135i. I expected the lack of torque from the N/A M3 to be a bigger issue but realistically both cars had more power and torque than I "need".

I'm am going to test drive a friend's (remapped) A45 AMG tomorrow. They were absurdly expensive new but would cost me very little import tax due to their good mpg rating (which you can easily double in real life). After doing a bit math I found that a used A45 would cost me the same as a similarly aged/equipped M135i.

[ORD]

EricE said:

I test drove a M135i at the local BMW dealer on Friday and the E92 M3 yesterday. To put this into context, our current daily shed is a Mini Cooper S R56 with the "sport suspension" option. The ride is very harsh, more so than it needs to be, but I find it extremely fun to drive - short wheelbase, not much body roll and a fun on the road without having to break the law.

The M135i felt the right size, noticeably larger than the Mini but still compact and wieldy. I was quite impressed by the torque but the very compliant suspension and light steering immediately put me off. The demo car had no adaptive suspension option but the ride was so far from what I expected from a "sporty" hatch that I don't think it would have made a difference. Of course that would make it a great daily driver but coming from the harsh mini, I don't mind some "not-so-sophisticated" damping.
The lack of LSD was quite noticeable around some hairpins in the wet with traction off. Both of these issues can be fixed though, the M135i with a decent KW or Bilstein suspension plus LSD would be a great package.

The M3 felt very big to me initially. The owner was quite encouraging and knew a few nice roads around in his area. Engine wise it really is on a completely different planet than the usual turbo-4 and turbo-6 story you get today.
It also felt better and better the harder drove and seemed to adjust to my driving style as opposed to the 1 series which somehow forced a line on me with it's turn in behaviour and body roll. The M3 just felt like it was more "on my side" whenever I drove a bit quicker, it was much sharper and predictable and thus inspired more confidence.

One downside to the M3 is that it looked more "in your face" than I had hoped. The particular car I'm looking at is a 2008 Coupe, white with carbon roof, black interior, OEM dark grey 18" wheels and 26000 miles without any modifications at all. Maybe it was the colour combination. I would have bought the M3 on the spot if the seller would have been more willing to negotiate.

Neither of the cars felt "fun" to drive in regular traffic (which the Mini does to a degree) but overall I strongly preferred the M3 over the M135i. I expected the lack of torque from the N/A M3 to be a bigger issue but realistically both cars had more power and torque than I "need".

I'm am going to test drive a friend's (remapped) A45 AMG tomorrow. They were absurdly expensive new but would cost me very little import tax due to their good mpg rating (which you can easily double in real life). After doing a bit math I found that a used A45 would cost me the same as a similarly aged/equipped M135i.

Unfortunately for the anti-M3 lot, the OP seems to be able to tell the difference between a car with a good chassis and a gorgeous engine and a shopping car with the turbo turned up.

Partly, it comes down to this: the 3 series has always been a pretty good drivers' car, whereas the 1 series has always been very average in that respect. A lot more work to do to get a 1 series to be fun, and not all that work was done on the 135i. You have to push a standard 1 series hard to even get it to behave like a RWD car, and the steering is pretty bad (like in all current BMWs that I have driven, to be fair).

I expect that's, for this reason, a go-faster A class won't cut the mustard.

[EricE]

ORD said:

I expect that's, for this reason, a go-faster A class won't cut the mustard.

I agree and don’t really expect to enjoy the A45, but 400 PS in a compact AWD hatch that received very positive reviews all around ( obligatory chris harris video here — the tenor was always "... but the price!") plus the opportunity to drive one made me curious.

I think the M2 will be a very interesting ownership proposition if it manages to combine the right bits from the M135i (size, technology, economy) and old M3 (chassis, balance, LSD, steering). But the V8 engine is of course never coming back.
I might just wait for the M2 unless another keenly priced M3 shows up.

[ORD]

EricE said:

I agree and don’t really expect to enjoy the A45, but 400 PS in a compact AWD hatch that received very positive reviews all around ( obligatory chris harris video here — the tenor was always "... but the price!") plus the opportunity to drive one made me curious.

I think the M2 will be a very interesting ownership proposition if it manages to combine the right bits from the M135i (size, technology, economy) and old M3 (chassis, balance, LSD, steering). But the V8 engine is of course never coming back.
I might just wait for the M2 unless another keenly priced M3 shows up.

Does the economy matter? How many miles are you doing? I wouldn't be too hung up on mpg unless you are doing mega miles.

I expect the M3 steering to be pretty much the same as in the 135i, to be honest. And the engine will be 'same old, same old' from BMW. BMW stopped caring about petrol engines several years back, which is depressing; perhaps the move away from the diesel obsession will get the good engineers working on proper engines again!

[Crafty_]

So, wait a minute. the M135i is a "tuned up shopping car" that behaves like fwd? until pushed really hard that overall isn't very good to drive.

Yet it can keep the E92 honest from everything we read/see and provide better mpg and is more usable as a road car.

I think some here are doing a little disservice to be honest.

[Welshbeef]

Crafty_ said:

So, wait a minute. the M135i is a "tuned up shopping car" that behaves like fwd? until pushed really hard that overall isn't very good to drive.

Yet it can keep the E92 honest from everything we read/see and provide better mpg and is more usable as a road car.

I think some here are doing a little disservice to be honest.

The point is both are a great buy BUT one is an M car the other isn't and to Petrol heads that's all the difference you need.

In years to come the M135i will be worth no more than the 130i is today whereas the E92 M3 with its carbon fibre roof 9k v8 rev limit etc etc


All that matters though is whoever is in the position to buy and that they are happy with the choice they make.




Oh and the M135i doesn't have LSD

[daz05]

Crafty_ said:

So, wait a minute. the M135i is a "tuned up shopping car" that behaves like fwd? until pushed really hard that overall isn't very good to drive.

Yet it can keep the E92 honest from everything we read/see and provide better mpg and is more usable as a road car.

I think some here are doing a little disservice to be honest.

You're completely missing the point it matters not one bit that it can keep an M3 honest, it's a very different experience.

Taking your point we could argue the Golf R will keep most performance cars honest for 3/4 of the year in this country. I'd have one of those over the M135 because it's an even better everyday road car and it comes with the added bonus of not looking silly.

[ORD]

daz05 said:

You're completely missing the point it matters not one bit that it can keep an M3 honest, it's a very different experience.

Taking your point we could argue the Golf R will keep most performance cars honest for 3/4 of the year in this country. I'd have one of those over the M135 because it's an even better everyday road car and it comes with the added bonus of not looking silly.

I was with you until you said you would prefer an AWD 4-pot to a car that at least drives the right wheels and has a pleasant enough 6-cyl engine. Unforgiveable

I was deliberately harsh on the 135i to make a point. But it is ultimately an ordinary car with a powerful turbo engine in it. It is capable but mundane.

Even if the M3 was identical to the 135i except that it had that interesting and impressive V8, it would still be twice the car to me; as it is, it also has a better chassis and is a lot more 'special' (whatever that means).

To be clear, my comment about not even feeling RWD applied to the boggo 1 series. The 135i has enough power that it always feels RWD, whereas the puny engines make the 1 series feel like a shopping car (which never, in my experience, happens in a 3 series - I have no idea why, but they feel more dominated by the layout and driven wheels; perhaps the 1 series has more understeer dialled in or is a bit heavier up front...not sure.)

[daz05]

I know terrible but I have a soft spot for the R. As a daily it just makes more sense. Both are good hatches though but as I said different.

[Welshbeef]

dvshannow said:

JNW1 said:

16.8mpg?!! Presumably not sparing it the beans to average that sort of mpg?!!

I stand corrected was 16.3! Maybe why I keep raving about the car

And under 11k miles the engine isn't yet fully run in wait until it loosens up then more power and less mpg.

[Denno B]

daz05 said:

Crafty_ said:

So, wait a minute. the M135i is a "tuned up shopping car" that behaves like fwd? until pushed really hard that overall isn't very good to drive.

Yet it can keep the E92 honest from everything we read/see and provide better mpg and is more usable as a road car.

I think some here are doing a little disservice to be honest.

You're completely missing the point it matters not one bit that it can keep an M3 honest, it's a very different experience.

Taking your point we could argue the Golf R will keep most performance cars honest for 3/4 of the year in this country. I'd have one of those over the M135 because it's an even better everyday road car and it comes with the added bonus of not looking silly.

But it does look silly with those exhausts!

[bennyboysvuk]

ORD said:

I was deliberately harsh on the 135i to make a point. But it is ultimately an ordinary car with a powerful turbo engine in it. It is capable but mundane.

I'd say that's pretty accurate. My M135i is now going to sit on the driveway for much of the summer whilst I commute on the R1.

IMO the M135i isn't aggressive enough anywhere except the engine. It feels like a regular BMW with an after-market turbo, so it feels comfortable and well built, but when driven fast, doesn't have anything like the same feedback and responsiveness of the M3 (it's even more lacking in the driving department IMO compared to the E46).

OP, which will you go for then? Or will you go the 911 route instead, which could be another possibility?