Help choosing between S54 Z3M and Z4M please

[alexwagner]

Hello,

I have owned two Z4M Roadsters in the past and loved them to bits. Amazing engine, great handling, no scuttle shake at all...

Now, I'm considering trying a Z3M Roadster (I live in Provence in the South of France, so drop-top is a must).

Why a Z3M?
- I think the Z3M look is maturing nicely into a timeless and classic design.

- I suspect the Z3M is more of a brutish old-school hot rod than the more polished and accomplished Z4M. I like it rough and I like an engaging and challenging car (I'm used to old air-cooled 911's), so the Z3M appeals. Is that what they're like compared to the Z4M?

- I get the impression I might make some money on resale. I've bought many sports cars before, nearly always losing money, and it would make a nice change to get some apreciation. It would certainly help the WAF (Wife Acceptance Factor) no end! :-)

And now the eternal S50 vs S54 question:

- I really fancy a last-of-the-line S54, because it's a more sophisticated engine, and one that I loved it the Z4M and would enjoy getting to know again in a different chassis.

- The S54, produced in only 283 examples in Europe (versus over 3500 in S50 guise), seems like a cast-iron no-brain apreciating investment, especially as it's the last-of-line ///M straight-6, before the modern turbo era...

Your thoughts please?
On how the Z3M Roadster drives compared to the Z4M Roaster
On the apreciation upside of a Z3M Roadster, especially in S54 guise (so I can present my wife with some clever man maths!)

Thanks,

Alex

PS: I'm considering this one-owner F-BMW-SH, S54 car, in Germany (I live in France):
http://achat-occasion.automobile.fr/voiture-annonc...

[akirk]

if you haven't yet - visit the forums:
zroadster.net
zroadster.org

there are certainly signs of value appreciating... coupe has gone through the roof - roadster following

[alexwagner]

Thanks, that's useful.

[Beedub]

I've never driven a z3m but i have owned my z4m from sub 1k miles..... like the boxster their is no and i mean no scuttle shake that I have ever detected, its torsional figure is high than an exige s1,s2 and matches thats of the new s3.... which is incredible imo, i remember the adverts where they used to picture a z4 upside down and report it could support its total weight on the window frame without deformation, its a very stiff platform which is why the coupe is monumentally stiff, this car was always designed as a roadster and it FEELs that way... i LOVE the old school cobra / TVR style feel, i suspect a min fresh z3mr would cost a fortune now days maybe? where-as a really clean z4m is still ok money but they are creeping up now so grab a good one asap. Theirs a 7k mile car at 21k and i would be snapping their hand off at that if the car checks out, i will not be surprised to see that car end up at sytners and is 26k.

for me the z4m is the last proper old school roadster / sports car your going to see at a reasonable price point and i think ( may be wrong) that at some point they will be un-economical to buy, any 2 seater car with the s54 is just a potential classic.

i absolutely adore mine, but even I've been tempted as recently by certain spyder / GT4 models lol, luckily for me i couldn't get one even if i could scrape up the entry Fee ;-)

[doclip]

OK so I've had both [ie S54 variants ] and agree the Z3M looks just great
BUT as a drivers car the Z3M is awful which is why I sold it
If you like driving quick especially on twisty back roads then chances are you'll end up in a ditch
If you're looking for an investment then go and buy a mutual fund like First State Asia Leaders B ,
unless that is you're prepared to wait many years and not put any mileage on your Z3M and keep it pristine -
the ones which go for serious money are mileage sensitive .
If you like the Z3M then the S50 variants are going to drive just the same and if you can find a high miler with the Vanos already sorted then that's the way to go -wont lose money on it either .
Residuals on the Z4M seemed to have reached a plateau as well for what its worth .
Or perhaps go with the head and buy an 01/02 Boxster S , much better all rounder than either BMW and a lot cheaper -as long as RMS and IMS issues already sorted .

[doclip]

Before you buy that S54 with 94Km for €29K maybe go and first visit a psychiatrist to get your head checked over - because you must be totally bonkers to pay that kind of money for what is after an old car -and at that money you are surely going to lose on it .Just my opinion though .

Edited by doclip on Sunday 19th April 18:34

[olliete]

I have an S50 Z3m.

The car doesn't handle as well as a Boxster, even with strut braces fitted. Having said that, it is a riot to drive and always an event - it is just so easy to get the back out in it.

The S54 has traction control, the S50 does not, the S54 also has a wider service interval, but i agree that an S50 wouldn't be too dissimilar for less money. Neither are sensible for daily driving though - they can be costly if the mileage creeps up.

Really depends what you want - a raw, modern classic with retro looks and brutish performance that will appreciate, or a much more sophisticated and accomplished car that (IMO) doesn't look as good but won't lose any money either.

Personally, the Z3m is an event to drive and i love the image of it. The Z4m would be too much of a head over heart purchase for me.

[alexwagner]

doclip]OK so I've had both [ie S54 variants said:

and agree the Z3M looks just great
BUT as a drivers car the Z3M is awful which is why I sold it
If you like driving quick especially on twisty back roads then chances are you'll end up in a ditch

I am definitely looking for a driver's car, but just to make sure we have the same definition:

I've owned air-cooled 911's from the 70's to 90's. They are the kinds of cars many might describe with "you'll end up in a ditch". But I found them very engaging playful drivers' cars. Sure, you need to be on your game but if you know the rules of the game, then they're predicatable cars that you can really lean on in the twisties (hence great rally success I might add).

So is a Z3M like that?

Or is it unpredicatable and treaturous?

Thanks,

[olliete]

Being honest and stating the obvious - drive both and decide for yourself - i'm sure you'll be able to handle the Z3M given your car history, it just depends whether the flex is too much for you.

plenty of testimonials from people like Tiff Needle on youtube who love the Z3M.

[doclip]

alexwagner said:

I am definitely looking for a driver's car, but just to make sure we have the same definition:

I've owned air-cooled 911's from the 70's to 90's. They are the kinds of cars many might describe with "you'll end up in a ditch". But I found them very engaging playful drivers' cars. Sure, you need to be on your game but if you know the rules of the game, then they're predicatable cars that you can really lean on in the twisties (hence great rally success I might add).

So is a Z3M like that?

Or is it unpredicatable and treaturous?

Thanks,

If you treat the Z3M with respect im sure you'll be OK -the problem is when the back end goes its very sudden ,and if you're not Tiff Needell you could end up in some serious trouble .I like to drive to a limit knowing i have some degree of reserve there -and there is less reserve there with the Z3M than with the Z4M for sure . The chassis and rear suspension on the Z3 is inherently flawed and even if you try and stiffen it up with rear and front strut braces ,its still not great . It wont be any worse than an early 911 if you treat it with respect .So it really depends what you are looking for -an investment it isn't i'm afraid ,a lot of fun which wont depreciate -yes for sure .

[Beedub]

my vote!! Z4m.... ( slight bias may be involved here) Cant lie however that grey z3m just looks brutish and cobra like in a way the z4m just can't!! id LOVE that car!

[NickXX]

Another thing to bear in mind is that the S54 in the Z3M doesn't put out full power - it is limited to 325hp due to a lower rev limiter compared to the z4/e46 M3.

[Patrick Bateman]

Beedub said:

my vote!! Z4m.... ( slight bias may be involved here) Cant lie however that grey z3m just looks brutish and cobra like in a way the z4m just can't!! id LOVE that car!

Those wheels suit that perfectly.

[Joyceyboy]

alexwagner said:

doclip]OK so I've had both [ie S54 variants said:

and agree the Z3M looks just great
BUT as a drivers car the Z3M is awful which is why I sold it
If you like driving quick especially on twisty back roads then chances are you'll end up in a ditch

I am definitely looking for a driver's car, but just to make sure we have the same definition:

I've owned air-cooled 911's from the 70's to 90's. They are the kinds of cars many might describe with "you'll end up in a ditch". But I found them very engaging playful drivers' cars. Sure, you need to be on your game but if you know the rules of the game, then they're predicatable cars that you can really lean on in the twisties (hence great rally success I might add).

So is a Z3M like that?

Or is it unpredicatable and treaturous?

Thanks,

I've owned an S50 Z3M for over a year now (16 months) and covered 24,000 I have also driven the Z3 range for 6 years. What I have found with these chassis is they can handle terribly if not maintained (remember they are becoming 15 years and older). One of the first things to do with a Z3M is fit some uprated shocks (Knoi,bilstein,BC) uprate some of the bushes and fit a better anti roll bar (H&R). This has transformed the handling for me and given me a very well balanced car. They also become very predictable and fun to drive, very easy to slide and control if you wanted too. The S50 is very much the animal under a heavy foot but you can guarantee bags of fun doing it. I have driven a Z4M once but not long enough to give a straight opinion on. Only thing I could tell was how effortless the drive was, also how they have refined the handling and ride.

I agree on the styling over the z4m the z3m has the classic look which I prefer. You will also notice how much these Z3m's have started rocketing in price in the last few months. I have used my zed as a daily for over a year now and found the costs not to be that high. I have serviced her 4 times and done 3 sets of tyres mainly due to my right foot and find them great fun and affordable.

Personally for a more classic drivers car the Z3m would suit or the Z4M for a more refined effortless fun drive.

P.S If you are local to me feel free to take my S50 out and make your own mind up.

Lee

[doclip]

This was my MR -easy on the eye

[Beedub]

Patrick Bateman said:

Those wheels suit that perfectly.

thanks, luckily they require a very extreme setup to work on this car so while the rim themselves are very rare, they are even rarer on a z4m.