Redux E30 M3 Leichtbau
Discussion
Personally, I think the whole project/brand, or whatever you want to call in is a little contrived. Singer was born out of one mans obsession to build his own car and then he turned it in to a business after the car generated it's own publicity.
In the case of Redux, it seems to have been an idea to make money, where the publicity and interest was generated by the proprietors and then they asked for customers. They are taking a risk that their first customer has taken a plunge in to the unknown, with the people selling the dream having never done this before and subcontracting out all the work to others, as opposed to the Singer situation where the person selling the dream was selling his own dream (which is pretty good one to be fair) which he had already realised for himself.
I look at the pictures on Instagram of custom parts for custom parts sake. Fabricated uprights! Why? Are the stock uprights not stiff enough? Is the geometry not correct? Is there any quantifiable reason to not use the stock struts aside from fitting some shiny coilover inserts which could be fitted to stock struts. Even Singer doesn't use spherical top mounts due to the NVH issues.
Driver adjustable anti-roll bars? Really, on a road car?
6 piston front and 4 piston rear brakes are overkill IME.
A custom offset wheel makes sense, as I know how hard it is to get opposing calipers inside stock wheels.
Weight saving measures make sense.
Oh and a turbo! More headline generating bling bling.
I can see it as maybe one or two cars and being the less of the sum total of the parts.
MIssed opportunity.
In the case of Redux, it seems to have been an idea to make money, where the publicity and interest was generated by the proprietors and then they asked for customers. They are taking a risk that their first customer has taken a plunge in to the unknown, with the people selling the dream having never done this before and subcontracting out all the work to others, as opposed to the Singer situation where the person selling the dream was selling his own dream (which is pretty good one to be fair) which he had already realised for himself.
I look at the pictures on Instagram of custom parts for custom parts sake. Fabricated uprights! Why? Are the stock uprights not stiff enough? Is the geometry not correct? Is there any quantifiable reason to not use the stock struts aside from fitting some shiny coilover inserts which could be fitted to stock struts. Even Singer doesn't use spherical top mounts due to the NVH issues.
Driver adjustable anti-roll bars? Really, on a road car?
6 piston front and 4 piston rear brakes are overkill IME.
A custom offset wheel makes sense, as I know how hard it is to get opposing calipers inside stock wheels.
Weight saving measures make sense.
Oh and a turbo! More headline generating bling bling.
I can see it as maybe one or two cars and being the less of the sum total of the parts.
MIssed opportunity.
stevesingo said:
Personally, I think the whole project/brand, or whatever you want to call in is a little contrived. Singer was born out of one mans obsession to build his own car and then he turned it in to a business after the car generated it's own publicity.
In the case of Redux, it seems to have been an idea to make money, where the publicity and interest was generated by the proprietors and then they asked for customers. They are taking a risk that their first customer has taken a plunge in to the unknown, with the people selling the dream having never done this before and subcontracting out all the work to others, as opposed to the Singer situation where the person selling the dream was selling his own dream (which is pretty good one to be fair) which he had already realised for himself.
I look at the pictures on Instagram of custom parts for custom parts sake. Fabricated uprights! Why? Are the stock uprights not stiff enough? Is the geometry not correct? Is there any quantifiable reason to not use the stock struts aside from fitting some shiny coilover inserts which could be fitted to stock struts. Even Singer doesn't use spherical top mounts due to the NVH issues.
Driver adjustable anti-roll bars? Really, on a road car?
6 piston front and 4 piston rear brakes are overkill IME.
A custom offset wheel makes sense, as I know how hard it is to get opposing calipers inside stock wheels.
Weight saving measures make sense.
Oh and a turbo! More headline generating bling bling.
I can see it as maybe one or two cars and being the less of the sum total of the parts.
MIssed opportunity.
Not quite his own car. In the case of Redux, it seems to have been an idea to make money, where the publicity and interest was generated by the proprietors and then they asked for customers. They are taking a risk that their first customer has taken a plunge in to the unknown, with the people selling the dream having never done this before and subcontracting out all the work to others, as opposed to the Singer situation where the person selling the dream was selling his own dream (which is pretty good one to be fair) which he had already realised for himself.
I look at the pictures on Instagram of custom parts for custom parts sake. Fabricated uprights! Why? Are the stock uprights not stiff enough? Is the geometry not correct? Is there any quantifiable reason to not use the stock struts aside from fitting some shiny coilover inserts which could be fitted to stock struts. Even Singer doesn't use spherical top mounts due to the NVH issues.
Driver adjustable anti-roll bars? Really, on a road car?
6 piston front and 4 piston rear brakes are overkill IME.
A custom offset wheel makes sense, as I know how hard it is to get opposing calipers inside stock wheels.
Weight saving measures make sense.
Oh and a turbo! More headline generating bling bling.
I can see it as maybe one or two cars and being the less of the sum total of the parts.
MIssed opportunity.
Dickinson said:
...in 2008. I spent huge amounts of someone else’s money...
http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/features/car-culture/it-had-to-look-great-be-built-like-a-rolex-and-go-down-the-road-like-a-weapon-singers-porsche-911-car-march-2016/But I agree that some of the choices are unusual. To be fair to Redux, the industry of RestoMods has been steadily growing for a while now. MGBs Jag XJS, DB5s, E Types etc So a classic drivers car like the M3 is a decent choice. Singers are far from the same price point though as a M3. Even I was surprised to see a price tag in the region of $600K
I think we are all aware of the XWorks rebuild. To me. That's about as close to perfection as you can get in terms of resto modding. So if Redux could emulate that it wont be a bad thing.
It's beyond factory. But still faithful to the original. The XWorks car is what would have happened if BMW had continued to update the SE beyond 1992
Edited by Rich_W on Sunday 14th May 20:34
M5 London said:
Has anyone on here actually turbocharged an S14, or know someone who has?
Graham BahrBahrGraham used to compete in his BMW E30 with a turbocharged S14 engine in the Dunlop Motorsport News Saloon Car Championship, and broke his own lap record at Snetterton with a time of 1m 16.6sec. The engine is built by Graham using a Ferriday Bi-Metal head gasket, then set up by Dave Walker of Emerald ECU’s to produce 490bhp, with 440lb/ft at just 14psi of boost.
e30m3Mark said:
I hear this is nearly finished.
Be intrigued to see if they held off with some of their proposed body modifications?
And here we are in 2018. And Redux have just Instagrammed some flocked Philips heads self tapping screws as evidence of, well, not a lot!Be intrigued to see if they held off with some of their proposed body modifications?
https://www.instagram.com/reduxleichtbau/
There's something about this project/company.
They've promised a lot but in several years of alleged work and some teaser pics not so much evidence of actual work. If I was an owner who'd given them a car 3+ years ago. I'd be a bit irritated. But I guess everyone's different.
I'm not suggesting it's a scam, but unlike Singer et al. At least you know it will happen. And the only reason for the delay is a full order book. This appears to be a bit too amateur for my tastes. That they are doing it around whatever else they do for a living. So you might get 3 days of "action" and then nothing for 6 weeks
They've promised a lot but in several years of alleged work and some teaser pics not so much evidence of actual work. If I was an owner who'd given them a car 3+ years ago. I'd be a bit irritated. But I guess everyone's different.
I'm not suggesting it's a scam, but unlike Singer et al. At least you know it will happen. And the only reason for the delay is a full order book. This appears to be a bit too amateur for my tastes. That they are doing it around whatever else they do for a living. So you might get 3 days of "action" and then nothing for 6 weeks
It's going to have to be pretty special to justify a 3 or 4 year build though. I still don't understand why they had their own pistons, rods etc made when these are all available from the like of CP, Arrow etc? Especially when the brakes etc are just regular AP's. Someone is going to have to absorb those costs somewhere down the line surely? I'll be intrigued to see if they stuck with any of those proposed body modifications too?
Interesting, if you look on their Instagram page there is a picture of some used S14 engines rowed up against a brick wall.
These are not their engines, nor are they likely to purchase them (they're in Greece).
A lot of social media hype & misdirection going on here.
Also, modern forced induction M cars make me feel unwell, so an turbocharged S14 makes me reach for the nearest sick bucket.
Awful, all manner of wrong.
These are not their engines, nor are they likely to purchase them (they're in Greece).
A lot of social media hype & misdirection going on here.
Also, modern forced induction M cars make me feel unwell, so an turbocharged S14 makes me reach for the nearest sick bucket.
Awful, all manner of wrong.
I've never driven a car with a turbo'd s14 but it's the character of an N/A 16v that revs to 8k+ that helps make the E30 M3 so special to me. If you're going to fit a turbo, you may as well just fir an s54 and be done with it. I don't see the obsession with big numbers anyway. I've always found around 300 brake to be the sweet spot in an E30 where tyre width is limited to a relatively small (by modern standards) footprint.
Matter88 said:
Interesting, if you look on their Instagram page there is a picture of some used S14 engines rowed up against a brick wall.
These are not their engines, nor are they likely to purchase them (they're in Greece).
A lot of social media hype & misdirection going on here.
And today, yet another! Post of a DTM car and nothing about anything they've done. These are not their engines, nor are they likely to purchase them (they're in Greece).
A lot of social media hype & misdirection going on here.
e30m3Mark said:
...I don't see the obsession with big numbers anyway. I've always found around 300 brake to be the sweet spot in an E30 where tyre width is limited to a relatively small (by modern standards) footprint.
Indeed. Singer as we all know could fit virtually any engine. But they don't. They go for 350-400hp ish. Which is more than adequate. It's about the feel and sensation and agilityRich_W said:
Matter88 said:
Interesting, if you look on their Instagram page there is a picture of some used S14 engines rowed up against a brick wall.
These are not their engines, nor are they likely to purchase them (they're in Greece).
A lot of social media hype & misdirection going on here.
And today, yet another! Post of a DTM car and nothing about anything they've done. These are not their engines, nor are they likely to purchase them (they're in Greece).
A lot of social media hype & misdirection going on here.
How long do Singer take to complete a build? (Although tbh, this doesn't appear to be anything like as comprehensive a build really does it?)
It seems one of the two people involved with this project has walked away. It seems the original engine builder / mapper is no longer involved either.
I asked for an update but didn't get a response. As far as I knew (and am happy to be corrected if I have this wrong) there was only a single car started, after it was imported from the USA where its owner resides, but it has been well over 3 years now. When the partnership split (amicably I should add, due to differences of opinion in relation to both the car and PR) the car was pretty much finished, just needing the engine and gearbox fitting and completion of the interior.
If it takes much longer I could see it having a negative effect on potential future builds. Singer (who's 911 is a far more complicated build process) has managed something like 42 cars in 10 years!
I asked for an update but didn't get a response. As far as I knew (and am happy to be corrected if I have this wrong) there was only a single car started, after it was imported from the USA where its owner resides, but it has been well over 3 years now. When the partnership split (amicably I should add, due to differences of opinion in relation to both the car and PR) the car was pretty much finished, just needing the engine and gearbox fitting and completion of the interior.
If it takes much longer I could see it having a negative effect on potential future builds. Singer (who's 911 is a far more complicated build process) has managed something like 42 cars in 10 years!
I think the Singer guy spent years playing around with his own car and getting it just how he wanted before Singer was even a company trying to sell cars.
This M3 project seems to have gone about it the other way, with selling the idea of a project before they had even decided on a spec and built a prototype. So now what they have, if you are correct, is a paying customers car being a guinea pig with all the same problems and delays, except that unlike other projects , people know about it and are watching.
Maybe if completed and any good, follow up cars could be completed quickly. Lets see what happens.
This M3 project seems to have gone about it the other way, with selling the idea of a project before they had even decided on a spec and built a prototype. So now what they have, if you are correct, is a paying customers car being a guinea pig with all the same problems and delays, except that unlike other projects , people know about it and are watching.
Maybe if completed and any good, follow up cars could be completed quickly. Lets see what happens.
Deptford Draylons said:
I think the Singer guy spent years playing around with his own car and getting it just how he wanted before Singer was even a company trying to sell cars.
This M3 project seems to have gone about it the other way, with selling the idea of a project before they had even decided on a spec and built a prototype. So now what they have, if you are correct, is a paying customers car being a guinea pig with all the same problems and delays, except that unlike other projects , people know about it and are watching.
Maybe if completed and any good, follow up cars could be completed quickly. Lets see what happens.
Slight tangent onto Singer. This M3 project seems to have gone about it the other way, with selling the idea of a project before they had even decided on a spec and built a prototype. So now what they have, if you are correct, is a paying customers car being a guinea pig with all the same problems and delays, except that unlike other projects , people know about it and are watching.
Maybe if completed and any good, follow up cars could be completed quickly. Lets see what happens.
I bought the Singer book the other day. "One more than 10" Love the detail they go into with the cars. Made me wonder what £250K and a similar level of detail could do to a E30M3
One for my hypothetical Euromillions win I fear.
Book is NOT cheap , but if you find a copy anywhere, have a look.
more pics at: https://www.stanceandspeed.com/automotive-books/on...
I paid £85 + £7 delivered from a seller in the UK though.
(though not as expensive as my E30 M3 book! Bought years ago from http://www.publics4drive.com/index-english/books/b... A book I also recommend! )
FYI Dickinson started out making his own car, then someone approached them and asked for a car. They told him it would be the first car they sold afterwards and there would be a delay. But the client was fine. And the car turned out as great as you'd expect!
Edited by Rich_W on Monday 2nd April 16:31
Rich_W said:
FYI Dickinson started out making his own car, then someone approached them and asked for a car. They told him it would be the first car they sold afterwards and there would be a delay. But the client was fine. And the car turned out as great as you'd expect!
This is the key to their success and the root of the failure of Redux E30 M3 Leichtbau.One is borne of a man's obsessive passion which turned in to a business due to demand.
The other is someone who has set out to make a business out of something for which they they didn't share the same passion. There seemed to be no clarity or purity to the project, is was just an E30 M3 rolled in glitter.
stevesingo said:
Rich_W said:
FYI Dickinson started out making his own car, then someone approached them and asked for a car. They told him it would be the first car they sold afterwards and there would be a delay. But the client was fine. And the car turned out as great as you'd expect!
This is the key to their success and the root of the failure of Redux E30 M3 Leichtbau.One is borne of a man's obsessive passion which turned in to a business due to demand.
The other is someone who has set out to make a business out of something for which they they didn't share the same passion. There seemed to be no clarity or purity to the project, is was just an E30 M3 rolled in glitter.
I've never met Mr Lord (of Redux) but you wonder why he decided to do what he's (allegedly) doing? What was the moment that made him think "This is what we can do" Has anybody spent time with him ta lking about the car?
And then further to that, has anyone who donated a car to be built actually surfaced and told what made them commit to it and what they hope to achieve? And what they are thinking right now?
What I didn't realise was that when he was much younger Dickinson actually worked for Lotus briefly (few months, under Peter Stevens no less!) before deciding to become a rock star (his relative is the guy from Iron Maiden, so as he says, it's a legitimate career choice in his family
) Well according to Instagram the reveal of chassis 01 is going to be happening soon.
Now I'm a bit of a cynical old Hector and am pretty sure 'soon' was said about 9 months ago, but I am certainly intrigued to see which styling changes were kept. More than that though, I want to see the dyno graph and the impact going turbo has had on the character of the s14.
Now I'm a bit of a cynical old Hector and am pretty sure 'soon' was said about 9 months ago, but I am certainly intrigued to see which styling changes were kept. More than that though, I want to see the dyno graph and the impact going turbo has had on the character of the s14.
Gassing Station | M Power | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff