Anyone gone E92 M3 to M4? need your thoughts please
Discussion
PinkFatBunny said:
Afternoon gents,
Thinking of changing my 2 yr old M3 which I've loved for a new M4. Long story short, will I be happy or will a bit of me wish I'd have kept the V8?
Any and all thoughts appreciated.
cheers
I think you need to drive it and then have a think about it. M4 is loved by some and hated by others. Depends what you like yourself really, but if you love the V8 then I would not rush to lose it - after all there will be no new V8s at all soon - plenty of time to drive turbos in years to come.Thinking of changing my 2 yr old M3 which I've loved for a new M4. Long story short, will I be happy or will a bit of me wish I'd have kept the V8?
Any and all thoughts appreciated.
cheers
I doubt many people who have paid the grand sum to make the switch will advise it was a mistake, and likewise those who decided not to. It's a different kind of M car which appeals in a different way, go drive and see for yourself.
Personally after an extended test drive and back to back comparison of my own I felt it improved in some areas but fell short on the ones that I wanted, sound, size (it feels even bigger), throttle response, sense of occasion, over refinement and steering. Most importantly the engine, as good as it is technically it just isn't very special, which is perhaps the main point of an M car for me.
Also lots of criticism on traction which I didn't have a major issue with on the road but pushing further may have highlighted the issue.
On the plus side it's fast, sounds ok inside, more ecomomical (3-4 mpg realistically) and spec'd properly it's a great looking car has great presence in your rear view mirror. I just can't see them holding any value at the moment though.
Personally after an extended test drive and back to back comparison of my own I felt it improved in some areas but fell short on the ones that I wanted, sound, size (it feels even bigger), throttle response, sense of occasion, over refinement and steering. Most importantly the engine, as good as it is technically it just isn't very special, which is perhaps the main point of an M car for me.
Also lots of criticism on traction which I didn't have a major issue with on the road but pushing further may have highlighted the issue.
On the plus side it's fast, sounds ok inside, more ecomomical (3-4 mpg realistically) and spec'd properly it's a great looking car has great presence in your rear view mirror. I just can't see them holding any value at the moment though.
Edited by daz05 on Sunday 10th May 18:57
Well if it helps....We've bought a new M3 in Sept and have kept our 09 E90 M3 which we've had from new
Honestly.....I prefer the old M3, a superb car, the way it delivers the power, the much quieter cabin and the better engine note but generally the new car feels much less in the quality department, it feels cheaper with less attention to detail
Road noise is the biggest issue..... that and the Merc E320 Diesel sound track
Having said that my Woman loves the new car all bar the road noise
Honestly.....I prefer the old M3, a superb car, the way it delivers the power, the much quieter cabin and the better engine note but generally the new car feels much less in the quality department, it feels cheaper with less attention to detail
Road noise is the biggest issue..... that and the Merc E320 Diesel sound track
Having said that my Woman loves the new car all bar the road noise
cheers guys - I drove one a few months back, the engine was responsive and their is no doubting that it is one very fast machine. But I admit I got out of it a bit confused, like it was missing something compared to the E92. The dash looks pretty much the same as the 420d which isn't great I know.
Having watched pretty much every review on YouTube the consensus seems to be that it grows on you and the performance is epic.
In comparison their is the new C63 AMG but it looks s
t in my opinion.
I drove the RS5, nice car, very quick and makes nice noises. But didn't seem as agile.
Drove the F-Type S - gorgeous and very tempting - but draw back is only 2 seats
Want to enquiry about a Cayman GTS and got told it was a 12 month wait for build slots from my local Porsche dealer!
I suppose the sensible option would be to keep my M3 for a while - I just don't want to end up getting an M4 at the end of year and then wishing I had got one sooner!
Having watched pretty much every review on YouTube the consensus seems to be that it grows on you and the performance is epic.
In comparison their is the new C63 AMG but it looks s
t in my opinion. I drove the RS5, nice car, very quick and makes nice noises. But didn't seem as agile.
Drove the F-Type S - gorgeous and very tempting - but draw back is only 2 seats
Want to enquiry about a Cayman GTS and got told it was a 12 month wait for build slots from my local Porsche dealer!
I suppose the sensible option would be to keep my M3 for a while - I just don't want to end up getting an M4 at the end of year and then wishing I had got one sooner!
As others have said, I think it's very difficult to be totally objective when you've spent such a large amount of cash on a car, but I've made the change so I'll try and give my opinion.
I've owned a succession of M3's since 2005, my last one being an E92 manual which I purchased new in 2009. I remember at the time the E92 came out there was a lot of resistance to it, with many saying that BMW had sold out and that the car was too heavy and that it didn't need a V8 blah blah blah. The truth as far as I'm concerned is that it was a car of such depth that it didn't immediately wow you on a test drive, but after a few months you really got to know what it could do and, personally, I thought it was brilliant. However, after 5 years I thought it was time to move on so I tried a few other cars, but with the caveat that the car had to be a manual. That limited the choice quite a bit, but I ended up ordering a new M4 Coupe with a manual gearbox which I picked up a few months ago.
To be honest, with holidays and work commitments overseas, I've not spent as much time in the car as I'd like, but I feel that I'm getting to know it a bit better and I think we're going to get along fine.
Starting with the negative points so far, I have to agree that the engine isn't as special as the E92 but then again, what is? From my test drive, and all the reviews, I thought it was going to be a huge issue, but having got used to it (I know, this doesn't sound too great so far), I actually really like the sound. OK, it's not as good as the E92, but I still enjoy listening to it. The other thing that I don't like as much as the E92 is the steering; you can tell it's an electric set up and it just doesn't feel as good as before. Sure, you can add weight, but the bottom line is that it doesn't feel as good as the old system.
That's the bad stuff out of the way, and now I can say what I like about the car.
First off, I think it looks great. There's enough BMW M DNA in the way it looks to make me glance over my shoulder as I walk away in a car park. The interior is really nice, and since I ordered the full leather interior in silverstone with carbon fibre trim, it's a really nice place to sit. The technology is obviously much more modern, and I love things like the HUD and the adaptive LED headlights.
To drive, I think it's great. OK, so I've mentioned the engine and the steering, but the handling is really good, and it's very predictable. It's still very playful and you can get the back end to drift with ease. As is always the case with M cars, it's totally controllable so you can have lots of fun. In spite of what the press says, I haven't really had any traction issues, but then again, I treat it with the respect that a RWD car with over 400bhp deserves, and so far I've been fine. The engine really is a powerhouse and you can have a lot of fun without the need to thrash it to the red-line. It seems to suit my style of driving now I'm in my 40's! I guess having the manual means my car is slower than the DCT boys, but I'm fine with that.
Overall, it still feels like a BMW M3 (although the badge says M4) but updated to fit in with today's demands. At the end of the day it's obviously your choice, but like the E92 before it, the M4 needs a bit of time to get under your skin before you finally 'get it'.
Hope this helps, and have fun deciding.
I've owned a succession of M3's since 2005, my last one being an E92 manual which I purchased new in 2009. I remember at the time the E92 came out there was a lot of resistance to it, with many saying that BMW had sold out and that the car was too heavy and that it didn't need a V8 blah blah blah. The truth as far as I'm concerned is that it was a car of such depth that it didn't immediately wow you on a test drive, but after a few months you really got to know what it could do and, personally, I thought it was brilliant. However, after 5 years I thought it was time to move on so I tried a few other cars, but with the caveat that the car had to be a manual. That limited the choice quite a bit, but I ended up ordering a new M4 Coupe with a manual gearbox which I picked up a few months ago.
To be honest, with holidays and work commitments overseas, I've not spent as much time in the car as I'd like, but I feel that I'm getting to know it a bit better and I think we're going to get along fine.
Starting with the negative points so far, I have to agree that the engine isn't as special as the E92 but then again, what is? From my test drive, and all the reviews, I thought it was going to be a huge issue, but having got used to it (I know, this doesn't sound too great so far), I actually really like the sound. OK, it's not as good as the E92, but I still enjoy listening to it. The other thing that I don't like as much as the E92 is the steering; you can tell it's an electric set up and it just doesn't feel as good as before. Sure, you can add weight, but the bottom line is that it doesn't feel as good as the old system.
That's the bad stuff out of the way, and now I can say what I like about the car.
First off, I think it looks great. There's enough BMW M DNA in the way it looks to make me glance over my shoulder as I walk away in a car park. The interior is really nice, and since I ordered the full leather interior in silverstone with carbon fibre trim, it's a really nice place to sit. The technology is obviously much more modern, and I love things like the HUD and the adaptive LED headlights.
To drive, I think it's great. OK, so I've mentioned the engine and the steering, but the handling is really good, and it's very predictable. It's still very playful and you can get the back end to drift with ease. As is always the case with M cars, it's totally controllable so you can have lots of fun. In spite of what the press says, I haven't really had any traction issues, but then again, I treat it with the respect that a RWD car with over 400bhp deserves, and so far I've been fine. The engine really is a powerhouse and you can have a lot of fun without the need to thrash it to the red-line. It seems to suit my style of driving now I'm in my 40's! I guess having the manual means my car is slower than the DCT boys, but I'm fine with that.
Overall, it still feels like a BMW M3 (although the badge says M4) but updated to fit in with today's demands. At the end of the day it's obviously your choice, but like the E92 before it, the M4 needs a bit of time to get under your skin before you finally 'get it'.
Hope this helps, and have fun deciding.
Kiernan said:
I've owned a succession of M3's since 2005, my last one being an E92 manual which I purchased new in 2009. I remember at the time the E92 came out there was a lot of resistance to it, with many saying that BMW had sold out and that the car was too heavy and that it didn't need a V8 blah blah blah. The truth as far as I'm concerned is that it was a car of such depth that it didn't immediately wow you on a test drive, but after a few months you really got to know what it could do and, personally, I thought it was brilliant.
Refreshing to read a post that is so balanced. I have to agree with your comment about the E92 being a car that takes time to appreciate - that certainly resonates with my experience.You don't specifically mention straight line performance of the M4 - I would imagine that is a big step up from the E92?
pjv997 said:
Refreshing to read a post that is so balanced. I have to agree with your comment about the E92 being a car that takes time to appreciate - that certainly resonates with my experience.
You don't specifically mention straight line performance of the M4 - I would imagine that is a big step up from the E92?
To be honest, I haven't given the car a good old thrashing yet, but so far I don't think there's too much in it. Sure, the M4 has lots of low down torque, but it doesn't rev out like the old V8. In the old M3, you had to use all of the revs to get it going properly, and this also included using the gearbox to get the best out of it. When you drove it like this, I never had any complaints about lack of torque as the thing would fly.You don't specifically mention straight line performance of the M4 - I would imagine that is a big step up from the E92?
In the M4, it's easier to access and slightly quicker, but I don't think it's a night and day difference. The other thing is that as this level of performance, the improvements are going to be relatively small unless you go for a massive increase in power.
At the end of the day, both my M3 and M4 have more than enough performance for public roads. I'm not a track day warrior, so I've never been let down by a lack of go.
Kiernan said:
pjv997 said:
Refreshing to read a post that is so balanced. I have to agree with your comment about the E92 being a car that takes time to appreciate - that certainly resonates with my experience.
You don't specifically mention straight line performance of the M4 - I would imagine that is a big step up from the E92?
To be honest, I haven't given the car a good old thrashing yet, but so far I don't think there's too much in it. Sure, the M4 has lots of low down torque, but it doesn't rev out like the old V8. In the old M3, you had to use all of the revs to get it going properly, and this also included using the gearbox to get the best out of it. When you drove it like this, I never had any complaints about lack of torque as the thing would fly.You don't specifically mention straight line performance of the M4 - I would imagine that is a big step up from the E92?
In the M4, it's easier to access and slightly quicker, but I don't think it's a night and day difference. The other thing is that as this level of performance, the improvements are going to be relatively small unless you go for a massive increase in power.
At the end of the day, both my M3 and M4 have more than enough performance for public roads. I'm not a track day warrior, so I've never been let down by a lack of go.
I have an E92, but recently borrowed an M4 for the day and must have done around 170 miles in it. I'd echo a lot of comments here. But essentially these are the differences for me, the M4 is a better car in every way you can actually practically measure. Faster, grippier etc etc. The new seats are fab and the driving position is improved.
The front axle is much better and it turns brilliantly, the brakes are a big step up. I did find the rear end strangely floaty on high speed sweeping corners, but that might have more to do with the roads.
Where it falls short of the E92 is the character of the engine. It never feels as sporting as there's no point revving it out, the throttle is nowhere near as sharp and there's little in the way of natural noise. The M4 is louder than I expected but it sounds angry and not that cultured to my ear. My M3 with an OEM Mod sound is scintillating by comparison. I should also say the DCT gearbox is another leap forward way better i around town than mine, full bore up shifts seem even quicker, but the downshifts while still fast, barely make any noise at all.
Ultimately the M4 is the better daily driver, but has lost the sparkle of the V8. Would I buy one? Yes, make no mistake we are nit-picking here it is a cracking car.mgut would I swap now? No, I need the magical V8 in my life a while longer.
The front axle is much better and it turns brilliantly, the brakes are a big step up. I did find the rear end strangely floaty on high speed sweeping corners, but that might have more to do with the roads.
Where it falls short of the E92 is the character of the engine. It never feels as sporting as there's no point revving it out, the throttle is nowhere near as sharp and there's little in the way of natural noise. The M4 is louder than I expected but it sounds angry and not that cultured to my ear. My M3 with an OEM Mod sound is scintillating by comparison. I should also say the DCT gearbox is another leap forward way better i around town than mine, full bore up shifts seem even quicker, but the downshifts while still fast, barely make any noise at all.
Ultimately the M4 is the better daily driver, but has lost the sparkle of the V8. Would I buy one? Yes, make no mistake we are nit-picking here it is a cracking car.mgut would I swap now? No, I need the magical V8 in my life a while longer.
Zyp said:
The ride quality in the back of the M3/4 is utterly appalling.
Harsh, noisy, clunky.
I think that is just a 3 series trait and when ever I sat in the back of our old E90 330d I felt sick and I just wanted to get out because of the things you describe yet I have never suffered with travel sickness before, I now pity anyone sitting in the back.Harsh, noisy, clunky.
cerb4.5lee said:
Zyp said:
The ride quality in the back of the M3/4 is utterly appalling.
Harsh, noisy, clunky.
I think that is just a 3 series trait and when ever I sat in the back of our old E90 330d I felt sick and I just wanted to get out because of the things you describe yet I have never suffered with travel sickness before, I now pity anyone sitting in the back.Harsh, noisy, clunky.
To be fair, I'm only banished to the back when I stink of beer and garlic Biltong....
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