v10 M5 for under £10k ...
Discussion
Schermerhorn said:
I would take a code reader along with me and tell the customer I'll pay him £20 if he lets me read the codes off the car after a little test drive.
How much is a replacement engine on these (salvage tested not brand new) by the way?
I bought a core with a spun bearing for $3000 for my track car build and Troy typically sells rebuilt 0 mile engines for around $7500 for a long block.How much is a replacement engine on these (salvage tested not brand new) by the way?
jcolley said:
Schermerhorn said:
I would take a code reader along with me and tell the customer I'll pay him £20 if he lets me read the codes off the car after a little test drive.
How much is a replacement engine on these (salvage tested not brand new) by the way?
I bought a core with a spun bearing for $3000 for my track car build and Troy typically sells rebuilt 0 mile engines for around $7500 for a long block.How much is a replacement engine on these (salvage tested not brand new) by the way?
That seems very cheap compared to rebuilds on the Porsche chocolate engines for example.
Shaoxter said:
So that's net $4500 for a new engine if you spun a rod bearing?
That seems very cheap compared to rebuilds on the Porsche chocolate engines for example.
Troy's price of $7500 is after the core return I believe. I bought a core from one of his customers before he returned it.That seems very cheap compared to rebuilds on the Porsche chocolate engines for example.
Depending on the severity of the damage to the crank, the damaged journal(s) can be weld built back up and ground back down, then the entire crank heat treated (properly this time), all for much cheaper than a crank from BMW. Doing this, you can also choose to grind the journals down an additional bit to provide improved oil clearance on the shells and not have to worry about the rod bearings so much in the future if you stick with OEM shells.
Mine is a bit of an experiment since I'm ditching the internal VANOS and oil pumps and going dry sump.
Stinkfoot said:
Whats all these $ prices ? This is primarily UK site and this is a UK car !!!
The USA has a bigger footfall for the S85 and has a larger and more knowledgeable crowd, especially from a DIY point of view. Most of the stuff I learned about my M6 was through the US crowd. jcolley said:
Yes. I would say the same for any car over about 90k based on my experience.
Can't answer the second part, but when I get the first interested party in my '06, I will be present for the drive and will recommend a long drive.
Would consider anything from 60k on worth doing,Jim!Can't answer the second part, but when I get the first interested party in my '06, I will be present for the drive and will recommend a long drive.
Good luck with such a high mileage S85,OP!
R.
500E said:
Would consider anything from 60k on worth doing,Jim!
Good luck with such a high mileage S85,OP!
R.
Really? Is it actually that prevalent or do all the threads on m5board make it seem far worse than it actually is, where 'preventative maintenance' encompasses making your car Trigger's broom?Good luck with such a high mileage S85,OP!
R.
What are we to make of cars on 150k miles with no issue?
Patrick Bateman said:
Really? Is it actually that prevalent or do all the threads on m5board make it seem far worse than it actually is, where 'preventative maintenance' encompasses making your car Trigger's broom?
What are we to make of cars on 150k miles with no issue?
Well, it depends on what you mean prevalent. Eventual failure for any engine is a given. The variables are mileage/hours and cause. What we've seen so far for failures (to clarify, meaning requiring a full rebuild) is about 80% from spun bearings, 10% failed VANOS high pressure pumps, 5% stuck open fuel injectors not properly handled, and 5% broken valve springs. Those aren't exactly scientific numbers, but given a lot of roughly 250 failures. The failed VANOS pump is a bit suspicious too as it's a bit chicken vs. egg as to whether the pump went first taking out bearings or vice versa. The fuel injector rebuilds are a result of poor investigation of a somewhat simple problem, replacing a single injector and doing nothing for inspection.What are we to make of cars on 150k miles with no issue?
As for the spun bearings, this is where the massive data scatter is obvious. There are engines failing as low as 30k miles and one Troy rebuilt at 200+ k miles. The years range from 9/05 builds (among the earliest in the US) up to late 09 builds. They happen on completely stock cars and highly modified cars. The wide range of variables present for this mode of failure, IMO, lends credence to the "tolerance stack-up" theory that some engines are built with all the rotating assembly clearances on the looser end of the combined machining tolerances and some are built on the tighter end of said tolerances. The engines built on the tighter end arguably have a shorter life expectancy.
What we do know is that guys have started changing their bearings preventively and the best assessment of a set of bearings coming out of an S85 is the wear "isn't that bad". This statement is made in comparison to the dozens of other sets of images being posted on non-failed engines. There was a set pulled in San Diego last week from an enthusiast owned 2009 M6 with around 34k miles, 5k oil change intervals, always properly warmed up, and the bearings were showing copper.
There are a few things on this car that are just given and accepted now as crap in either design or execution, as wonderful as the car is. Throttle actuators (inexcusable IMO and an indication of substandard material choice), VANOS high pressure lines (would it really have cost that much more to add an additional 15 degree bend on the hard pipe?), PLCDs (jury still out on why this is so common), clutch slave cylinders (only infuriating because the damn transmission has to come out), and the outdated use of brushed DC motors (DSC units and SMG pump motors). It's just starting to look like rod bearings are part of that equation for long term ownership.
It is amazing though to see the change in ownership over the last 3 years though as owners tackle more and more of the complex jobs on their own. Natural progression I suppose as the values of the car come down. 3 years ago, it was nearly unheard of for people to change their own clutches, adapt the SMG, etc. Now it's not uncommon for the owner to have a better idea of the problem than the mechanic they take the car to.
Patrick Bateman said:
How have you found the S65 by comparison?
Personally, I haven't aside from a single rod bearing refresh for a friend. The crankshafts share the same dimensions aside from missing a pair of journals and the rod bearings, connecting rods, and pistons all share part numbers, so it was as expected, similar to the S85 in terms of wear.I haven't done anything aside from that with an S65, but feel it is a somewhat superior design due to simplicity (lack of high pressure VANOS system).
However, from what I've read on various forums, the concern for that engine is just as significant and the majority of research/experience/theory has come from the S65 side of the internet house, probably due to the production volume and owner demographic.
pvogue said:
Turn up with a load of cash down a cul de sac. Park up. His mates block you in and threaten to beat you if you dont give up the cash.Repeat.
pvogue said:
Totally. Not even sure why you needed to ask!
What else would need addressing for this milage? Happy to chance ancillaries and bushes and brakes and what not.
But if we into the realms of internal engine bearsings wearing out, oil pumps, waterpumper, crankand cam bearings and seals etc it might be a big waste of money / continiously faulting.
Do fancy a cheap v10 and dont mine putting in some spanner time but there is a limit.
Compression test / piston rings and valve seals?
But if we into the realms of internal engine bearsings wearing out, oil pumps, waterpumper, crankand cam bearings and seals etc it might be a big waste of money / continiously faulting.
Do fancy a cheap v10 and dont mine putting in some spanner time but there is a limit.
Compression test / piston rings and valve seals?
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