Urgent! Advice sought contesting insurance valuation (Z4M)

Urgent! Advice sought contesting insurance valuation (Z4M)

Author
Discussion

nickfrog

20,874 posts

216 months

Wednesday 15th July 2015
quotequote all
What does the Policy wording say about the method of assessing the value ? Those trade books are useless at the best of times, they're always behind the market, unsurprisingly.

wiggy001

6,542 posts

270 months

Thursday 16th July 2015
quotequote all
nickfrog said:
What does the Policy wording say about the method of assessing the value ? Those trade books are useless at the best of times, they're always behind the market, unsurprisingly.
Admiral (my insurer at the time) have the following wording about Market Value:

Admiral said:
The cost of replacing your car, with one of a similar make, model, year, mileage and condition based on market prices at the time
of the loss. Use of the term ‘market’ in which you would normally shop for your car e.g. retail value, will not apply if you buy your car privately or at auction.

GarethA

Original Poster:

179 posts

149 months

Thursday 16th July 2015
quotequote all
Ditto - Admiral. Same as wiggy

Funk

26,254 posts

208 months

Thursday 16th July 2015
quotequote all
That's stupid. Basically they're saying 'market value' but not any 'market' you could buy from.

I'd happily pay a higher price for insurance through a company that doesn't try to kick you when you're already down.

mmm-five

11,227 posts

283 months

Thursday 16th July 2015
quotequote all
Funk said:
That's stupid. Basically they're saying 'market value' but not any 'market' you could buy from.
Surely that phrase just means that if you've bought it really cheaply at an auction, then you can't expect a main dealer retail settlement figure.

If you bought the current car privately, then you'd buy the new car privately, and they'd not put you in a better position than you were before the loss.

As long as you can show you bought it retail/privately and present them with adverts of the same type, then I can't see how they can argue (although they will of course).

skeeterm5

3,331 posts

187 months

Thursday 16th July 2015
quotequote all
Funk said:
That's stupid. Basically they're saying 'market value' but not any 'market' you could buy from.

I'd happily pay a higher price for insurance through a company that doesn't try to kick you when you're already down.
You can do this, buy a policy with an agreed value and then you don't get this issue.

S

MOTK

308 posts

133 months

Thursday 16th July 2015
quotequote all
skeeterm5 said:
You can do this, buy a policy with an agreed value and then you don't get this issue.
S
You can, but what happens when the value of the car increases over the year (which is what has been happening with Z4M prices, to by one now costs on average at least a grand more than this time last year) and was the case with my 968CS which was written off? I 'made' 2k over the value declared by myself on my policy which was not an agreed value one. Agreed value seems like a bit of a waste of time, certainly from my experience.

skeeterm5

3,331 posts

187 months

Thursday 16th July 2015
quotequote all
MOTK said:
You can, but what happens when the value of the car increases over the year (which is what has been happening with Z4M prices, to by one now costs on average at least a grand more than this time last year) and was the case with my 968CS which was written off? I 'made' 2k over the value declared by myself on my policy which was not an agreed value one. Agreed value seems like a bit of a waste of time, certainly from my experience.
Not my experience at all with the specialist broker I use.

S

shep1001

4,599 posts

188 months

Friday 17th July 2015
quotequote all
No help to you now but next time get yourself an agreed value policy, they cost a little more than a std policy that pays on market value but saves all the hassle of trying to negotiate when your payout is lower than what it will end up costing you to replace the vehicle should the worst happen

MOTK

308 posts

133 months

Friday 17th July 2015
quotequote all
skeeterm5 said:
Not my experience at all with the specialist broker I use.

S
I guess then a 'standard' insurer sees things differently (I think in this instance it was Admiral).

Edited by MOTK on Friday 17th July 01:11

wiggy001

6,542 posts

270 months

Friday 17th July 2015
quotequote all
mmm-five said:
Surely that phrase just means that if you've bought it really cheaply at an auction, then you can't expect a main dealer retail settlement figure.

If you bought the current car privately, then you'd buy the new car privately, and they'd not put you in a better position than you were before the loss.

As long as you can show you bought it retail/privately and present them with adverts of the same type, then I can't see how they can argue (although they will of course).
I bought from a BMW main dealer, and showed them adverts from both private and trade sellers. They didn't care at all and just kept quoting the guide prices. I even asked them to source me an equivalent vehicle for the money they were offering... "we don't perform that service sir...".

They should be forced to update the T&Cs to state that market value is as defined by Glasses guide, so at least it is clear to the customer that they will get screwed over unless they agree a value.

GarethA

Original Poster:

179 posts

149 months

Friday 17th July 2015
quotequote all
What the policy says:

(i)
Your car is insured for its current market value at the time of the loss.
If your car is more than 20 years old, an agreed valuation can be obtained, subject to underwriting approval


(ii)
Market value The cost of replacing your car, with one of a similar make, model, year, mileage and condition based on market prices at the time
of the loss. Use of the term ‘market’ in which you would normally shop for your car e.g. retail value, will not apply if you buy your
car privately or at auction.

Non-European manufactured cars will be valued based on European import values or the nearest British equivalent, at our discretion.

.....

Still no communication....

Polarbert

17,923 posts

230 months

Wednesday 19th August 2015
quotequote all
What was the outcome with this?

L3090

73 posts

138 months

Friday 21st August 2015
quotequote all
If you really wanted to know about the wheels being on that car when it was built, the information can be accessed in two ways.

1.) Ring up your local BMW dealer and ask them to run a specification check their end and they'll be able to confirm spec along with original price.

2.) There's a website where you can do the spec check yourself, you just need the last few bits of your chassis. I've forgotten the link though unfortunately.

I hope this helps and I wish you all the best getting all of this sorted.

AW10

4,422 posts

248 months

solidlad84

176 posts

186 months

Sunday 20th September 2015
quotequote all
Recently had the same issue although on a much cheaper car - they were offering 30% less than the minimum of what the car would cost to replace (£5000 for the same model but higher miles, slightly older etc) and I showed them adverts of what i'd have to pay to replace it and ended up with a final offer of £3500, up from £3000 initially so I guess its worth trying to fight for a bit more.

But don't expect 14-15k unfortunately mate - they do seem to take Glass as gospel now which is a bit stupid. Cars like M cars clearly aren't reflected accurately in the guide. I dread (touch wood) the day my M is involved in any accident.

Polarbert

17,923 posts

230 months

Friday 1st January 2016
quotequote all
L3090 said:
If you really wanted to know about the wheels being on that car when it was built, the information can be accessed in two ways.

1.) Ring up your local BMW dealer and ask them to run a specification check their end and they'll be able to confirm spec along with original price.

2.) There's a website where you can do the spec check yourself, you just need the last few bits of your chassis. I've forgotten the link though unfortunately.

I hope this helps and I wish you all the best getting all of this sorted.
The CSL wheels were never offered as an option on this car. They may have been for sale by BMW and fitted at the dealer, but not as a factory option.

IATM

3,779 posts

146 months

Friday 1st January 2016
quotequote all
and people wonder how cheaper insurance comes about.
Its not ideal and I feel sorry for you OP but when we live in a culture of paying peanuts and expecting too much this is what happens.
When insurance companies need to contest with competing on price, paying out high values and now in a culture of sue anyone and everything paying out 10-20k personal injury claims to every tom dick and harry something has to give.

A low insurance price will entice even the most hardy buyers and that will trump everything else.
Its the price we pay as a society for always chasing a low price.

We used to me smarter and try and attain a better price for the same service, now we generally just pay the cheapest price and not give a fk what we get for it.

odd to say the least

griff7

765 posts

164 months

Friday 1st January 2016
quotequote all
IATM said:
and people wonder how cheaper insurance comes about.
Its not ideal and I feel sorry for you OP but when we live in a culture of paying peanuts and expecting too much this is what happens.
When insurance companies need to contest with competing on price, paying out high values and now in a culture of sue anyone and everything paying out 10-20k personal injury claims to every tom dick and harry something has to give.

A low insurance price will entice even the most hardy buyers and that will trump everything else.
Its the price we pay as a society for always chasing a low price.

We used to me smarter and try and attain a better price for the same service, now we generally just pay the cheapest price and not give a fk what we get for it.

odd to say the least
Exactly this.

So many people have insured high end cars with these companies for peanuts. If the figures on this occasion are so different then i would hate to think about the figures on a car over 100k.Gap insurance seems to be another alternative and is not too expensive to make sure you don't lose out.

JNW1

7,711 posts

193 months

Friday 1st January 2016
quotequote all
griff7 said:
IATM said:
and people wonder how cheaper insurance comes about.
Its not ideal and I feel sorry for you OP but when we live in a culture of paying peanuts and expecting too much this is what happens.
When insurance companies need to contest with competing on price, paying out high values and now in a culture of sue anyone and everything paying out 10-20k personal injury claims to every tom dick and harry something has to give.

A low insurance price will entice even the most hardy buyers and that will trump everything else.
Its the price we pay as a society for always chasing a low price.

We used to me smarter and try and attain a better price for the same service, now we generally just pay the cheapest price and not give a fk what we get for it.

odd to say the least
Exactly this.

So many people have insured high end cars with these companies for peanuts. If the figures on this occasion are so different then i would hate to think about the figures on a car over 100k.Gap insurance seems to be another alternative and is not too expensive to make sure you don't lose out.
I understand what you're saying but is the assertion that insurance companies can't afford to pay fair settlements because premiums have been driven down by competitive pricing? The level of profits they report would suggest otherwise although I accept it's possible that car insurance may not be contributing much towards the overall figure....