E60 M5 Rod Bearing Failure! - Advice Really Appreciated

[Lazyjames]

[StuH]

jonah35 said:

Ouch. Main dealer prices!

Sorry to hear it.

This is, however, why air cooled Porsches and so on appreciate and why these just stick languishing in the classifieds week after week with no one buying them.

180 miles per tank and so many issues just put so many off.

I'd certainly contact the warranty company and,Malmö if you bought it from a dealer I'd contact the dealer.

Drivel. I sold my e60 m5 within 48hrs. All modern performance cars have issues, that's what manufacturers warranty is for.

To the OP - As others have stated, just stick to your guns. Your issue should def be covered by the Mondial warranty.

[Hammer67]

I spent many years in dealerships aftersales (not BMW) and at no point did the tech "decide it was not warranty". Got fk all to do with him, he wields the spanners and reports what he finds.

At that point the warranty administrator takes over and verifies that there is a warranty in place, puts the claim together and submits it to the relevant company.

The warranty company then assesses it and proceeds in which ever direction it thinks fit.


If the BMW system is different and the tech does indeed decide what is and what isn't warranty work, WTF does the "warranty lady" do?

[darreni]

Lazyjames said:

It looks as though you bought that from a dealer.

Given you've had it less than a month, what does the seller say about it?

[jcolley]

I would imagine you have a legal case against them. Given the propensity for the S65 and S85 to eat their bearings on completely stock cars, it's absurd that any "technician" or otherwise would relate bearing wear to operator abuse.

You have a warranty which covers the engine, if the dealer won't even submit the claim to the company given the history of this engine, I would seek legal recourse. Additionally, what is book labor rate for engine removal there? I pulled the engine, transmission, and front suspension out of my M5 this weekend in a combined total of about 7.5 hours Saturday. Getting the oil pan off will take me another 2 hours tops. So, 10 hours...are they charging 240/hr? Or are they milking the job having pre-made the decision it's not warranty?

[cosworth330]

This is disgusting that the dealer is not helping at all. I used to be a Warranty administrator at BMW/Volvo and Vauxhall although that was 15 years ago when I left the trade. On a large claim like that the dealership should be putting your case forward to Mondial for a claim and then its upto Mondial whether they think its covered or not or want to come & inspect the bearings. I have an E60 M5 with the Mondial warranty I certainly would expect this to be covered with no quibble, the problem is some dealerships really are terrible when it comes to situations like this. It stinks !

Simon.

[nw942]

Lazyjames said:

As i said, the car had literally just come out of a main dealer 2 days before I bought it with a clean bill of health, it had a main dealer oil service 2000 miles ago, plus i still have the ebay ad i bought the car from, where the car is sold in good health etc. I guess they can also see on the computer when the codes first started, which should clear up any confusion about whether this is a new fault or one carried over from a previous owner.

So the seller had the car serviced before selling it or did you get a pre-purchase inspection?

Out of interest, is it the same dealer or dealer group (Westerly) that did that service?

[Lazyjames]

The repair just before I bought it was at a different dealership - Bowker in Preston. It had an engine management light come on, they replaced a throttle actuator and a crankshaft speed sensor and then gave it a clean bill of health and a standard inspection i assume they do on all cars. Could this be related??

[jcolley]

Lazyjames said:

The repair just before I bought it was at a different dealership - Bowker in Preston. It had an engine management light come on, they replaced a throttle actuator and a crankshaft speed sensor and then gave it a clean bill of health and a standard inspection i assume they do on all cars. Could this be related??

Doubtful. S85 and S65 eat rod bearings. The data is there statistically to back that statement up.

I have just finished rebuilding one from a spun bearing which is going in my car. The engine coming out had the bearings replaced 10k miles ago at 65k miles and off to a new owner who spun a bearing on his S85. Throttle actuators are common failures due to poor material choice in their gears, but not associated with the rod bearings. The crank position sensor is also not uncommon, but usually related to being struck by a bent flywheel tooth which was damaged by a broken clutch disc rivet.

[RossP]

This all sounds very odd. Have you checked the policy wording? Are engine bearings excluded?

How the car has been driven is completely irrelevant and I can't understand why the dealer wouldn't contact Mondial to put in a claim regardless (even if they thought it would ger rejected).

[RossP]

This is the wording from the BMW website:

"Comprehensive Insured Warranty covers all mechanical and electrical components of your vehicle for defects - except the items listed below:

All exhaust components (except catalytic converter)
All service items which will require periodic replacement
Any item that has worn out rather than suffered from a defect
Auxiliary drive belts
Batteries
Brake and clutch facings
Bulbs and fuses
Channels and guides
Cleaning or adjustment of any component
Coolant and fuel hoses
Discs and drums
Glass
Handles, hinges and check straps
Trim, upholstery and cosmetic finishes
Wheels and tyres
Wiper blades and arms
Weather strips and seals"

The key here is "Any item that has worn out rather than suffered from a defect". You would need some evidence that the bearings haven't just worn out.

[eztiger]

darreni said:

It looks as though you bought that from a dealer.

Given you've had it less than a month, what does the seller say about it?

Surely this is the most relevant point that's being glossed over. It doesn't matter about the warranty at this point - unless it was a trader trying to slide the sale through as private.

[Shaoxter]

RossP said:

The key here is "Any item that has worn out rather than suffered from a defect". You would need some evidence that the bearings haven't just worn out.

A worn bearing at 80k miles is a defect.

[RossP]

Shaoxter said:

RossP said:

The key here is "Any item that has worn out rather than suffered from a defect". You would need some evidence that the bearings haven't just worn out.

A worn bearing at 80k miles is a defect.

Which is great news for the OP if he can prove it. Got to have a good case.

[Shaoxter]

They're not wear and tear or servicable items, they're supposed to last the life of the car. 80k is not an acceptable mileage for them to fail.

[Wills2]

jonah35 said:

This is, however, why air cooled Porsches and so on appreciate and why these just stick languishing in the classifieds week after week with no one buying them.

Yeah because no ones ever had to spend any money on an air cooled Porsche......

[Lazyjames]

The seller of the car did sell it privately as his own car for cash, from his home address. I also was driving it for over 5 weeks and 800 miles, so i assumed the Mondial warranty was my first port of call.

I sent an email today to Richard Price, the aftersales director at BMW UK, and was pleasantly surprised to receive a response within 2 hours. He will look into the situation and come back to me tomorrow. I attach the text of my email below - fingers crossed he'll 'motivate' the dealership into sorting themselves out.

[Lazyjames]

Hello, I am writing as I am experiencing some difficulties with one of your dealerships - Westerly in Yeovil.

I have recently privately bought a 2007 E60 M5 (MD57 YCZ). On the day I bought it I paid for a Mondial comprehensive warranty to ensure I was covered for all eventualities. The car has a full BMW service history and has 81000 miles. It had an oil service at a main dealer at 79000 miles and received a clean health check.

I was driving the car when the engine management light came on and advised me to go to a garage to seek advice. I had the car recovered to Westerly in Yeovil. They took the engine out and diagnosed rod bearing failure. The technician stated this was not a warranty issue and they declined to even contact Mondial to check if this was the case. I was then presented with a bill for £2400 of labour to take the car apart, plus an estimate of £20k+ to replace the engine.

I have since done a lot of research which has determined rod bearing failure to be extremely common in these S85 engines, and that they should certainly not be failing at 81k when the service requirements have been followed exactly.

I have now got my M5 in pieces with no engine at one of your garages, i'm out of pocket by £2400, plus i'm still paying for a very expensive 'comprehensive' warranty which has let me down badly on something i could never have allowed for nor be expected to service myself. I am feeling really let down by the experience, and I am reaching out in the hope you may be able to offer advice or help me. I feel the dealership is not on my side or attempting to assist me, and i'm hoping you can.

Thank you for your time

[anonymous-user]

RossP said:

This is the wording from the BMW website:

"Comprehensive Insured Warranty covers all mechanical and electrical components of your vehicle for defects - except the items listed below:

All exhaust components (except catalytic converter)
All service items which will require periodic replacement
Any item that has worn out rather than suffered from a defect
Auxiliary drive belts
Batteries
Brake and clutch facings
Bulbs and fuses
Channels and guides
Cleaning or adjustment of any component
Coolant and fuel hoses
Discs and drums
Glass
Handles, hinges and check straps
Trim, upholstery and cosmetic finishes
Wheels and tyres
Wiper blades and arms
Weather strips and seals"

The key here is "Any item that has worn out rather than suffered from a defect". You would need some evidence that the bearings haven't just worn out.

That's relevant to a car bought from a BMW dealer as an AUC, isn't it? The OP bought this car from an eBay seller, apparently.

[Helicopter123]

REALIST123 said:

RossP said:

This is the wording from the BMW website:

"Comprehensive Insured Warranty covers all mechanical and electrical components of your vehicle for defects - except the items listed below:

All exhaust components (except catalytic converter)
All service items which will require periodic replacement
Any item that has worn out rather than suffered from a defect
Auxiliary drive belts
Batteries
Brake and clutch facings
Bulbs and fuses
Channels and guides
Cleaning or adjustment of any component
Coolant and fuel hoses
Discs and drums
Glass
Handles, hinges and check straps
Trim, upholstery and cosmetic finishes
Wheels and tyres
Wiper blades and arms
Weather strips and seals"

The key here is "Any item that has worn out rather than suffered from a defect". You would need some evidence that the bearings haven't just worn out.

That's relevant to a car bought from a BMW dealer as an AUC, isn't it? The OP bought this car from an eBay seller, apparently.

This is the list of exclusions for the Mondial warranty purchased via BMW, and shown on it's site. The warranty can be purchased distinct from the car, on any used BMW?