E60 M5 or LEXUS IS-F?

[Pommygranite]

Just wondering if anyone on here has had an IS-F and an E60 M5 and their thoughts?

The E60 is a wonderful proposition but as a daily (50 mile round trip motorway in traffic) I wonder if the small tank/low mpg together with potential massive cost problems/poor auto means the IS-F is a better proposition.

Welcome all views.

[cosworth330]

I have an E60 M5 biut omly do about 3k a year and half of that is going to shows and meets, it's used a second car but not really needed,more of a toy. My brother in law bought an ISF brand new when they came out in 2008 and I have driven it. I would say for a daily driver the ISF would be easier to live with and they do sound very nice. They are about as quick as the V8 M3 in a straight line. Would I swap my M5 for an ISF, no as the M5 is much more exciting to drive and sounds better,quicker and handles better but I would say the ISF would be easier to live with but is just a Lexus. Even has fake exhausts. Still a nice car though and not very common sight on the roads.

[Pommygranite]

Nice straight answer thanks.

I do think a month in or so with the Lexus the novelty would wear off but the M5 would just get deeper under the skin each passing week. And that clock in the Lexus just looks a little 80's Casio

Interested in the 'easier to live with thing' I get it but what does it mean in relation to the M5?

Basically on a 50 mile round trip each case day am I going to be putting in a tank every 4 days (I live in Oz and the speeding nazis mean it'll rarely get over 70mph and 5000 rpm unfortunately so should spend most time in the economic zone)

Is the gearbox nasty in full auto? What does normal mode actually mean?- manual changes via the paddles for all shifts? If so that doesn't sound tooooo bad in rush hour traffic, or is it?

The other choice is don't get an E60 M5 but an E9x M3 with the DCT - maybe that's just as good a proposition.

I don't need practicality - I just want something 'soulful' but not bankrupt inducing.

[rassi]

The IS-F should be an easier commuting proposition with good torque and a decent 8 speed gearbox. More fuel efficient and relaxing than the E60 M5, and seems to be bullet proof mechanically.

I had an E60 M5 and used it only for long-distance driving, where the thirst and size of the fuel tank (70 litres) made it annoying from a range point of view. It returned 19 MPG over 20.000 km. The SMG of the E60 M5 should be treated as a manual, where it is very exciting, but please don't think that the auto mode is useful, it is so far from the smoothness and intuitiveness of a good conventional autobox, and IMHO should be avoided completely. The E92 M3 DCT is an interesting alternative to the IS-F, and the DCT is excellent in manual as well as in auto, but quite a bit slower than the E60 and surprisingly not that much economical, as mine returned 20.5 MPG over 10.000 km, which combined with an even smaller tank (63 litres) means that the range is also a problem. In either case, would suggest to buy AUC or with a running Mondial insurance.

Would an Alpina B5 not appeal if you want a proper auto, and one which is more exclusive and relaxed?

Edit: Only read the Oz part now, so guess that means the Alpina is out. E63 AMG an option down under?

[Schermerhorn]

The M5 will get annoying after a while

a) because of the thirst - even if your commute is boring and relatively steady

b) It will feel so slow at anything below 60mph and you'll want to put your foot down whenever you can.

c) The lack of torque means you'll always be searching for gears to build up speed (I kid you not, my 1.9 Tdi felt faster around town than my E63 M6).

The engine is great if you want to drive it like a racing car or go on a charge but the constant changing down to make progress began to feel like a chore for me. The thing is, it really gets under your skin and I miss mine terribly.

However, living with it as a day to day proposition means I'd rule it out. I prefer more 'elastic' engines that are more lazy in their nature like the AMG's etc and where I don't have to worry about the clutch, flywheel, throttle actuators, rod bearings, VANOS issue, etc etc etc.

[AW10]

Schermerhorn said:

c) The lack of torque means you'll always be searching for gears to build up speed (I kid you not, my 1.9 Tdi felt faster around town than my E63 M6).

Sorry but I need to chip in here. It might have less torque per ton than a TDi but there's still 5 litres of smooth high compression V10 ready and waiting. There's no replacement for displacement.

The S85 has 390Nm of torque at 2000 rpm
The 170bhp 2.0 TDi has 350Nm at 2000 rpm

OK, the car with the S85 engine probably weighs 500kg more but to say the car has no low-end torque isn't very accurate. IMHO.

[Shaoxter]

Depends how heavy your traffic is. I never really drive it around town but this weekend I was ferrying around family members a few times along the Embankment roadworks and that wasn't very pleasant. In order to prolong clutch life I try to minimise clutch slip and so the getaway from a standstill is not as smooth as it could be. Gets a bit tiresome if you're in heavy traffic all the time and I wouldn't recommend this car for that kind of job.

Anywhere else and it's fantastic

[Schermerhorn]

AW10 said:

Schermerhorn said:

c) The lack of torque means you'll always be searching for gears to build up speed (I kid you not, my 1.9 Tdi felt faster around town than my E63 M6).

Sorry but I need to chip in here. It might have less torque per ton than a TDi but there's still 5 litres of smooth high compression V10 ready and waiting. There's no replacement for displacement.

The S85 has 390Nm of torque at 2000 rpm
The 170bhp 2.0 TDi has 350Nm at 2000 rpm

OK, the car with the S85 engine probably weighs 500kg more but to say the car has no low-end torque isn't very accurate. IMHO.

I find it hard to believe my M6 had 390Nm at 2000rpm, more like 4000rpm and beyond. After that it took off like a rocket.

I've always described the S85 as a 'giant VTEC' that just loves to rev and rev and rev. It's a wicked engine that doesn't stop pulling but only after 4000rpm. Below that it is quite flat.

It's a pure racing engine (probably why so many things go wrong with these cars )

[Pvapour]

cosworth330 said:

ISF would be easier to live with but is just a Lexus. Even has fake exhausts. Still a nice car though and not very common sight on the roads.

I personally think Lexus has a more quality image, not saying better but the fact that the brand is proven to be far more reliable than BMW would make me far more proud to have a Lexus on the drive than a BMW, they are rarer to which holds better in the exclusivity stakes (relative to BMW which are on every street drive)

(I own an E60 as well)

[cosworth330]

W

Pvapour said:

I personally think Lexus has a more quality image, not saying better but the fact that the brand is proven to be far more reliable than BMW would make me far more proud to have a Lexus on the drive than a BMW, they are rarer to which holds better in the exclusivity stakes (relative to BMW which are on every street drive)

(I own an E60 as well)

We are talking about the E60 M5 with na V10 engine producing 507bhp not BMW 's in general. The E60 M5 is a very rare sight on the roads. Lexus for me makes me think of an old mans car pipe and slippers. As I said earlier the IS-F is a nice car and rare and would make a better everyday car. My brother-in-law bought a new Audi RS4 avant 2007 model before the IS-F and he preferred the IS-F and said it was slighty quicker. As far as V8s go the IS-F sounded very nice.

As for saying Lexus IS more reliable so that would make you feel more proud to own one and have one on the drive way, you'll probably find that Skoda is more reliable than BMW but I'd rather have my M5 on the drive than a sporty Skoda !

Edited by cosworth330 on Monday 28th September 19:32

[mondie]

Had a v10 M% for a couple of years and loved it but would not have another. That SMG gearbox would feel like a joke now, horrible thing that is is.

Our next car would be an IS-F but its only a 4 seater, and we have 3 sprogs so its off the list

[Pvapour]

cosworth330 said:

We are talking about the E60 M5 with na V10 engine producing 507bhp not BMW 's in general. The E60 M5 is a very rare sight on the roads. Lexus for me makes me think of an old mans car pipe and slippers. As I said earlier the IS-F is a nice car and rare and would make a better everyday car. My brother-in-law bought a new Audi RS4 avant 2007 model before the IS-F and he preferred the IS-F and said it was slighty quicker. As far as V8s go the IS-F sounded very nice.

As for saying Lexus IS more reliable so that would make you feel more proud to own one and have one on the drive way, you'll probably find that Skoda is more reliable than BMW but I'd rather have my M5 on the drive than a sporty Skoda !

Edited by cosworth330 on Monday 28th September 19:32

i was refering to and quoting your comment 'its just a lexus'

thast comment is nothing to do with models its you saying Lexus is inferior to BMW, it may well be for what you think is important in a car.

for me Lexus is better than BMW, you see pipe & slippers, I see qulality, refinement & reliability, these things are more important to me & less so to you but thats we all buy for different reasons

Edited by Pvapour on Monday 28th September 20:34

[Pommygranite]

Shaoxter said:

Depends how heavy your traffic is. I never really drive it around town but this weekend I was ferrying around family members a few times along the Embankment roadworks and that wasn't very pleasant. In order to prolong clutch life I try to minimise clutch slip and so the getaway from a standstill is not as smooth as it could be. Gets a bit tiresome if you're in heavy traffic all the time and I wouldn't recommend this car for that kind of job.

Anywhere else and it's fantastic

Thanks for this and the other responses.

Its been most helpful as given what is being said I think its a pass from me.

Here in oz the focus and pressure on speed is massive which means slight infringements are wholeheartedly pursued and punished, such as 6 mph over a speed limit results in a $200 fine and 2 points. 'Overly Rapid' acceleration or spinning wheels can actually result in seizure of your vehicle and impounded for 28 days. Theres also a lot more road police presence than the UK. This means that if you give it the full beans you're in trouble.

Therefore it feels as if I got an M5 i would permanently be in le-friendzone - all the costs and issues without any of the benefits.

Pootling to work and back, 50 miles, no higher than 70 mph, mostly 60, sat in slow flowing traffic, filling up ever 3-4 days and never having opened it up means all the pain and no gain.

So my dreaming/looking goes on - Merc C63 AMG, Lexus IS-F, BMW M3 E92/93 (dont like the look of the E90), Audi RS5...choice choices.

[rb5er]

The ISF is a great car to drive. It goes sideways at will, has all the toys, makes a lovely noise and will be infinitely cheaper to run and more reliable. Also a rare sight unlike M5's.

Lexus in every department is a winner.

[Patrick Bateman]

I'd hardly say even the e60 M5 is common. I've maybe seen 3 this years tops.

[rb5er]

I see plenty around Bucks. At least 1 a day if I go for a short drive. Only ever seen maybe 5 isf's on the road since they were released in around 2008.

[TheAngryDog]

rb5er said:

I see plenty around Bucks. At least 1 a day if I go for a short drive. Only ever seen maybe 5 isf's on the road since they were released in around 2008.

I see more E60's than E39's in Aylesbury, couldn't tell you the last time I saw an is-f, ever.

If the road policing is so stringent, what's the point of high performance cars in Australia? The only place you could use some of the potential would be in the outback or tracks. Much easier to press on in the UK.

[Pommygranite]

TheAngryDog said:

rb5er said:

I see plenty around Bucks. At least 1 a day if I go for a short drive. Only ever seen maybe 5 isf's on the road since they were released in around 2008.

I see more E60's than E39's in Aylesbury, couldn't tell you the last time I saw an is-f, ever.

If the road policing is so stringent, what's the point of high performance cars in Australia? The only place you could use some of the potential would be in the outback or tracks. Much easier to press on in the UK.

It definitely dulls the motoring flame somewhat but the sense of wanting something emotionally alluring doesn't go away.

In a sea of white camry's and broken old scummy v8's (sounds good -isn't) it would be fulfilling to at least be at the wheel of something soulful.

Your point is valid and here (at least in Perth) you just don't see many high end cars even though there's a lot wealth. Wealth here is a 40ft cruiser boat and a new LandCruiser.

Perhaps i just buy a diesel Focus for the commute and a Gransport for cruising times :laughs:

[TheAngryDog]

Pommygranite said:

TheAngryDog said:

rb5er said:

I see plenty around Bucks. At least 1 a day if I go for a short drive. Only ever seen maybe 5 isf's on the road since they were released in around 2008.

I see more E60's than E39's in Aylesbury, couldn't tell you the last time I saw an is-f, ever.

If the road policing is so stringent, what's the point of high performance cars in Australia? The only place you could use some of the potential would be in the outback or tracks. Much easier to press on in the UK.

It definitely dulls the motoring flame somewhat but the sense of wanting something emotionally alluring doesn't go away.

In a sea of white camry's and broken old scummy v8's (sounds good -isn't) it would be fulfilling to at least be at the wheel of something soulful.

Your point is valid and here (at least in Perth) you just don't see many high end cars even though there's a lot wealth. Wealth here is a 40ft cruiser boat and a new LandCruiser.

Perhaps i just buy a diesel Focus for the commute and a Gransport for cruising times :laughs:

Hmmmm, I'd say fk it and get what you want. TBH my own car I cant use the potential of all that much where I live, and a specced up 520 would've done but I wasn't going to settle for that. Even driving slowly I get to listen to a V8. I've never been in an E60, so I wouldn't know whether it made nice noises when being driven slowly like my E39 does.

Get what you want, life is too short to drive st cars

[Pommygranite]

TheAngryDog said:

Pommygranite said:

TheAngryDog said:

rb5er said:

I see plenty around Bucks. At least 1 a day if I go for a short drive. Only ever seen maybe 5 isf's on the road since they were released in around 2008.

I see more E60's than E39's in Aylesbury, couldn't tell you the last time I saw an is-f, ever.

If the road policing is so stringent, what's the point of high performance cars in Australia? The only place you could use some of the potential would be in the outback or tracks. Much easier to press on in the UK.

It definitely dulls the motoring flame somewhat but the sense of wanting something emotionally alluring doesn't go away.

In a sea of white camry's and broken old scummy v8's (sounds good -isn't) it would be fulfilling to at least be at the wheel of something soulful.

Your point is valid and here (at least in Perth) you just don't see many high end cars even though there's a lot wealth. Wealth here is a 40ft cruiser boat and a new LandCruiser.

Perhaps i just buy a diesel Focus for the commute and a Gransport for cruising times :laughs:

Hmmmm, I'd say fk it and get what you want. TBH my own car I cant use the potential of all that much where I live, and a specced up 520 would've done but I wasn't going to settle for that. Even driving slowly I get to listen to a V8. I've never been in an E60, so I wouldn't know whether it made nice noises when being driven slowly like my E39 does.

Get what you want, life is too short to drive st cars

The affordable dream car is a 360 Spider (Grigio alloy, manual please) and my wife said 'but you can't drive it or park it anywhere' my response was I just want to park it in the garage, grab a beer and just look at it. she thinks I'm weird.

I agree with you, it's not that I will cane it everywhere it's that if I wanted to 'I could'.