Two dozen white E92 M3 with sub 20k miles on AUC site
Discussion
griff7 said:
The only thing wrong with what they have done is by not letting potential buyers know the history of the cars.As far as warranty is concerned then read the posts above and the link i provided.
When BMW sold a load of CSL's years ago with a similar history to these cars not buying one was a big mistake on my part,but it's just a personal decision as to what you are happy with.
I think you are wrong. The link you posted was from a guy that had an early failure as a result of a track day. BMW tried to wriggle out of it, but he eventually won after getting a lawyer friend to send some rather firm letters, arguing the precise wording of the warranty terms which exclude 'competitive use'.When BMW sold a load of CSL's years ago with a similar history to these cars not buying one was a big mistake on my part,but it's just a personal decision as to what you are happy with.
I think comparing a car that has failed during a single one-off track event, with cars that have been ragged around a track for 2 YEARS and 3-8 thousand miles is misleading and incorrect. These cars have done 1500-4000 laps of Oulton Park or Brands hatch and are likely to have suffered severe premature wear as a result. Driving cars on a race track put massive amount of stress on engine and chassis components, and will always result in increased wear. These cars are a time bomb, with potential failures just around the corner, maybe in 2-3 years time. The reason you buy a low mileage car is the belief that the car will be in better condition and likely to give you more years of trouble free motoring. The reality with these cars is a million miles away in this case.
The press will have a field day when they find out about this!
Edited by Captain Caveman on Thursday 19th November 14:12
Vroomer said:
Has this issue hit any newspapers or magazines?
I suspect the story will only get legs when an affected customer decides to use the media to motivate BMW to resolve their issue.It is the sort of case that might pique Watchdogs interest....They love sticking it to car manufacturers who get caught out being naughty.
Count James said:
I suspect the story will only get legs when an affected customer decides to use the media to motivate BMW to resolve their issue.
It is the sort of case that might pique Watchdogs interest....They love sticking it to car manufacturers who get caught out being naughty.
https://ssl.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b006mg74/contactIt is the sort of case that might pique Watchdogs interest....They love sticking it to car manufacturers who get caught out being naughty.
Captain Caveman said:
I think you are wrong. The link you posted was from a guy that had an early failure as a result of a track day. BMW tried to wriggle out of it, but he eventually won after getting a lawyer friend to send some rather firm letters, arguing the precise wording of the warranty terms which exclude 'competitive use'.
I think comparing a car that has failed during a single one-off track event, with cars that have been ragged around a track for 2 YEARS and 3-8 thousand miles is misleading and incorrect. These cars have done 1500-4000 laps of Oulton Park or Brands hatch and are likely to have suffered severe premature wear as a result. Driving cars on a race track put massive amount of stress on engine and chassis components, and will always result in increased wear. These cars are a time bomb, with potential failures just around the corner, maybe in 2-3 years time. The reason you buy a low mileage car is the belief that the car will be in better condition and likely to give you more years of trouble free motoring. The reality with these cars is a million miles away in this case.
The press will have a field day when they find out about this!
You have no idea what you are talking about for most of your post...I think comparing a car that has failed during a single one-off track event, with cars that have been ragged around a track for 2 YEARS and 3-8 thousand miles is misleading and incorrect. These cars have done 1500-4000 laps of Oulton Park or Brands hatch and are likely to have suffered severe premature wear as a result. Driving cars on a race track put massive amount of stress on engine and chassis components, and will always result in increased wear. These cars are a time bomb, with potential failures just around the corner, maybe in 2-3 years time. The reason you buy a low mileage car is the belief that the car will be in better condition and likely to give you more years of trouble free motoring. The reality with these cars is a million miles away in this case.
The press will have a field day when they find out about this!
Edited by Captain Caveman on Thursday 19th November 14:12
Back in early 2007 I took delivery of YH06HLP - a Z4MC with 2000 miles. It was one of BMW's press cars, appearing on the cover of Autocar... Sideways...
I held on to it from 2007 to 2012 covering 48,000 miles. I am guessing that about 1/2 of the mileage was spent at the Ring, Bedford, Abbeville, Snetterton and even a number of drift sessions. I thing I managed to get down to 8:10-ish BTG, on road tyres and brakes. The car was serviced on the button, but instead of Oil, Insp I, Oil, Insp II, Oil etc it just went Insp II, Insp II, Insp II etc. Valve clearances were checked every second inspection. Anyway, what went wrong - steering wheel trim wore thru and the front caliper dust seals were fried from heat. BMW honoured the warranty and supplied two new calipers and disks. I went thru four set of front and rear pads, as well as two sets of disks.
I sold it on to a friend in 2012, who was well aware of the history and was a passenger many a time at Bedford. Three years on, the car continues to do the odd-track day here and there and has now covered I think 63k miles, which yet again have been totally trouble free. I guarantee you my Z4MC has lived a much harder life than the V8 M3s currently for sale. How does that stack up against your "claims" - real like experience vs. internet theory?
Cheburator mk2 said:
You have no idea what you are talking about for most of your post...
Back in early 2007 I took delivery of YH06HLP - a Z4MC with 2000 miles. It was one of BMW's press cars, appearing on the cover of Autocar... Sideways...
I held on to it from 2007 to 2012 covering 48,000 miles. I am guessing that about 1/2 of the mileage was spent at the Ring, Bedford, Abbeville, Snetterton and even a number of drift sessions. I thing I managed to get down to 8:10-ish BTG, on road tyres and brakes. The car was serviced on the button, but instead of Oil, Insp I, Oil, Insp II, Oil etc it just went Insp II, Insp II, Insp II etc. Valve clearances were checked every second inspection. Anyway, what went wrong - steering wheel trim wore thru and the front caliper dust seals were fried from heat. BMW honoured the warranty and supplied two new calipers and disks. I went thru four set of front and rear pads, as well as two sets of disks.
I sold it on to a friend in 2012, who was well aware of the history and was a passenger many a time at Bedford. Three years on, the car continues to do the odd-track day here and there and has now covered I think 63k miles, which yet again have been totally trouble free. I guarantee you my Z4MC has lived a much harder life than the V8 M3s currently for sale. How does that stack up against your "claims" - real like experience vs. internet theory?
Well that's all fine, and your mate bought in the knowledge of what the car had done. Would it have been OK if you hadn't mentioned to him that it had done 20K on track ? That's the main point of this discussion, the BMW aren't being honest about the background, and have some documented history of trying to get out of warranty claims if the car has been on track.Back in early 2007 I took delivery of YH06HLP - a Z4MC with 2000 miles. It was one of BMW's press cars, appearing on the cover of Autocar... Sideways...
I held on to it from 2007 to 2012 covering 48,000 miles. I am guessing that about 1/2 of the mileage was spent at the Ring, Bedford, Abbeville, Snetterton and even a number of drift sessions. I thing I managed to get down to 8:10-ish BTG, on road tyres and brakes. The car was serviced on the button, but instead of Oil, Insp I, Oil, Insp II, Oil etc it just went Insp II, Insp II, Insp II etc. Valve clearances were checked every second inspection. Anyway, what went wrong - steering wheel trim wore thru and the front caliper dust seals were fried from heat. BMW honoured the warranty and supplied two new calipers and disks. I went thru four set of front and rear pads, as well as two sets of disks.
I sold it on to a friend in 2012, who was well aware of the history and was a passenger many a time at Bedford. Three years on, the car continues to do the odd-track day here and there and has now covered I think 63k miles, which yet again have been totally trouble free. I guarantee you my Z4MC has lived a much harder life than the V8 M3s currently for sale. How does that stack up against your "claims" - real like experience vs. internet theory?
Captain Caveman said:
I think you are wrong. The link you posted was from a guy that had an early failure as a result of a track day. BMW tried to wriggle out of it, but he eventually won after getting a lawyer friend to send some rather firm letters, arguing the precise wording of the warranty terms which exclude 'competitive use'.
I think comparing a car that has failed during a single one-off track event, with cars that have been ragged around a track for 2 YEARS and 3-8 thousand miles is misleading and incorrect. These cars have done 1500-4000 laps of Oulton Park or Brands hatch and are likely to have suffered severe premature wear as a result. Driving cars on a race track put massive amount of stress on engine and chassis components, and will always result in increased wear. These cars are a time bomb, with potential failures just around the corner, maybe in 2-3 years time. The reason you buy a low mileage car is the belief that the car will be in better condition and likely to give you more years of trouble free motoring. The reality with these cars is a million miles away in this case.
The press will have a field day when they find out about this!
I think i am right as you will get a warranty on the cars and the link was just an example of what is spouted about by a dealership and what is fact.The cars will come with a warranty from BMW and that will be extendable afterwards.Instead of just guessing why not ring the dealerships selling the cars and the warranty company.I think comparing a car that has failed during a single one-off track event, with cars that have been ragged around a track for 2 YEARS and 3-8 thousand miles is misleading and incorrect. These cars have done 1500-4000 laps of Oulton Park or Brands hatch and are likely to have suffered severe premature wear as a result. Driving cars on a race track put massive amount of stress on engine and chassis components, and will always result in increased wear. These cars are a time bomb, with potential failures just around the corner, maybe in 2-3 years time. The reason you buy a low mileage car is the belief that the car will be in better condition and likely to give you more years of trouble free motoring. The reality with these cars is a million miles away in this case.
The press will have a field day when they find out about this!
Edited by Captain Caveman on Thursday 19th November 14:12
After my M3 extended warranty ran out i did not renew it as my car was heavily modified except for drive train and engine.They rang me to see if i wanted cover and i told them about the modifications and they still offered me full cover.
Some people just accept what a dealer tells them instead of doing a bit of research.
if you don't want to buy any of these cars as you know the history then that is a personal choice,but as i said and many others have said they should have told potential customers of the history as when i viewed the cars years ago the first thing they did was mention the history.
Cheburator mk2 said:
You have no idea what you are talking about for most of your post...
Back in early 2007 I took delivery of YH06HLP - a Z4MC with 2000 miles. It was one of BMW's press cars, appearing on the cover of Autocar... Sideways...
I held on to it from 2007 to 2012 covering 48,000 miles. I am guessing that about 1/2 of the mileage was spent at the Ring, Bedford, Abbeville, Snetterton and even a number of drift sessions. I thing I managed to get down to 8:10-ish BTG, on road tyres and brakes. The car was serviced on the button, but instead of Oil, Insp I, Oil, Insp II, Oil etc it just went Insp II, Insp II, Insp II etc. Valve clearances were checked every second inspection. Anyway, what went wrong - steering wheel trim wore thru and the front caliper dust seals were fried from heat. BMW honoured the warranty and supplied two new calipers and disks. I went thru four set of front and rear pads, as well as two sets of disks.
I sold it on to a friend in 2012, who was well aware of the history and was a passenger many a time at Bedford. Three years on, the car continues to do the odd-track day here and there and has now covered I think 63k miles, which yet again have been totally trouble free. I guarantee you my Z4MC has lived a much harder life than the V8 M3s currently for sale. How does that stack up against your "claims" - real like experience vs. internet theory?
Totally agree.Back in early 2007 I took delivery of YH06HLP - a Z4MC with 2000 miles. It was one of BMW's press cars, appearing on the cover of Autocar... Sideways...
I held on to it from 2007 to 2012 covering 48,000 miles. I am guessing that about 1/2 of the mileage was spent at the Ring, Bedford, Abbeville, Snetterton and even a number of drift sessions. I thing I managed to get down to 8:10-ish BTG, on road tyres and brakes. The car was serviced on the button, but instead of Oil, Insp I, Oil, Insp II, Oil etc it just went Insp II, Insp II, Insp II etc. Valve clearances were checked every second inspection. Anyway, what went wrong - steering wheel trim wore thru and the front caliper dust seals were fried from heat. BMW honoured the warranty and supplied two new calipers and disks. I went thru four set of front and rear pads, as well as two sets of disks.
I sold it on to a friend in 2012, who was well aware of the history and was a passenger many a time at Bedford. Three years on, the car continues to do the odd-track day here and there and has now covered I think 63k miles, which yet again have been totally trouble free. I guarantee you my Z4MC has lived a much harder life than the V8 M3s currently for sale. How does that stack up against your "claims" - real like experience vs. internet theory?
These cars can do so many miles if serviced on schedule or in my case every few thousand miles that a car with less than 10k miles with most of that done with paying customers then there should be no issue.My car has done about 700 laps of the ring now and never missed a beat and mates have done over 50k of track miles with no issues but correct servicing.
griff7 said:
I think i am right as you will get a warranty on the cars and the link was just an example of what is spouted about by a dealership and what is fact.The cars will come with a warranty from BMW and that will be extendable afterwards.Instead of just guessing why not ring the dealerships selling the cars and the warranty company.
After my M3 extended warranty ran out i did not renew it as my car was heavily modified except for drive train and engine.They rang me to see if i wanted cover and i told them about the modifications and they still offered me full cover.
Some people just accept what a dealer tells them instead of doing a bit of research.
if you don't want to buy any of these cars as you know the history then that is a personal choice,but as i said and many others have said they should have told potential customers of the history as when i viewed the cars years ago the first thing they did was mention the history.
I phoned BMW and asked about warranty and track use. The guy, who confirmed the information with his manager, suggested that if any failure occurs which can be attributed to track use then you would not be covered. If BMW themselves are confirming the warranty situation on these cars, what else can we do than believe them??After my M3 extended warranty ran out i did not renew it as my car was heavily modified except for drive train and engine.They rang me to see if i wanted cover and i told them about the modifications and they still offered me full cover.
Some people just accept what a dealer tells them instead of doing a bit of research.
if you don't want to buy any of these cars as you know the history then that is a personal choice,but as i said and many others have said they should have told potential customers of the history as when i viewed the cars years ago the first thing they did was mention the history.
So, in short.
These ex-track cars are fully warrantied by BMW's AUC warranty scheme as they would a standard AUC car but if you track them yourself (and any component failure related to that) it would void the warranty?
The other questions I have would be establishing a cause-effect relationship and how much wriggle room do BMW have on the warranty, with them being ex tracks.
These ex-track cars are fully warrantied by BMW's AUC warranty scheme as they would a standard AUC car but if you track them yourself (and any component failure related to that) it would void the warranty?
The other questions I have would be establishing a cause-effect relationship and how much wriggle room do BMW have on the warranty, with them being ex tracks.
Schermerhorn said:
So, in short.
These ex-track cars are fully warrantied by BMW's AUC warranty scheme as they would a standard AUC car but if you track them yourself (and any component failure related to that) it would void the warranty?
The other questions I have would be establishing a cause-effect relationship and how much wriggle room do BMW have on the warranty, with them being ex tracks.
That's what I think. I just looked at my AUC warranty and it's paragraph 6 which seems pertinent.These ex-track cars are fully warrantied by BMW's AUC warranty scheme as they would a standard AUC car but if you track them yourself (and any component failure related to that) it would void the warranty?
The other questions I have would be establishing a cause-effect relationship and how much wriggle room do BMW have on the warranty, with them being ex tracks.
This warranty will not cover:-
Vii) a vehicle used for ........competitions or racing of any kind.
There's some ambiguity because "used" if you read in the past tense could be seen to refer to the vehicle's historical use, but any common sense (and reasonable) interpretation is that it is referring to what you, the one who signs up to the terms and conditions of the warranty, use the car for.
Paragraph 6 comes under the heading "Additional terms for the BMW Approved Used Car Warranty" and as above, it's all about your warranty cover.
Smuler said:
That's what I think. I just looked at my AUC warranty and it's paragraph 6 which seems pertinent.
This warranty will not cover:-
Vii) a vehicle used for ........competitions or racing of any kind.
There's some ambiguity because "used" if you read in the past tense could be seen to refer to the vehicle's historical use, but any common sense (and reasonable) interpretation is that it is referring to what you, the one who signs up to the terms and conditions of the warranty, use the car for.
Paragraph 6 comes under the heading "Additional terms for the BMW Approved Used Car Warranty" and as above, it's all about your warranty cover.
Its not the AUC warranty thats the problem its the the BMW insured warranty which has the following terms and conditions:This warranty will not cover:-
Vii) a vehicle used for ........competitions or racing of any kind.
There's some ambiguity because "used" if you read in the past tense could be seen to refer to the vehicle's historical use, but any common sense (and reasonable) interpretation is that it is referring to what you, the one who signs up to the terms and conditions of the warranty, use the car for.
Paragraph 6 comes under the heading "Additional terms for the BMW Approved Used Car Warranty" and as above, it's all about your warranty cover.
This BMW Insured Warranty will not cover:
[.....]
an insured vehicle used for courier or private hire services, track days, off road use, competitions or racing of any kind."
An ex-experience track day car is specifically excluded from cover under that policy.
At the end of your one year AUC warranty you are on your own as far as BMW are concerned.
Edited by Sneaky Pete on Friday 20th November 13:41
Captain Caveman said:
What's the BMW insured warranty? Is that the official BMW extended warranty?
yes, thishttps://www.bmw-warranty.co.uk/Start
although reading my AU warranty booklet, it says :-
If your vehicle is between 2 and three years old it will be covered by a 12 month warranty comprising the balance of the BMW Dealer Warranty until the car is 3 years old and after that the BMW Approved Used Car Warranty will provide cover to bring you up to a total of 12 months warranty cover.
These cars reach 3 year old in Feb.
The BMW Dealer warranty it would seem is what I thought is called the Manufacturer's warranty as the explanatory notes refer to this as the warranty for a new car.
Schermerhorn said:
I would be pushing for 2 year warranty if I ever bought one of these. At least you would have peace of mind over it. I had 2 years on my M6 and by God did it come in handy for me!
Yes that's fine but if when you come to resale any clued up buyer will know this history and know they can not get extended cover on the car and therefore this will affect the residual.ATM said:
Schermerhorn said:
I would be pushing for 2 year warranty if I ever bought one of these. At least you would have peace of mind over it. I had 2 years on my M6 and by God did it come in handy for me!
Yes that's fine but if when you come to resale any clued up buyer will know this history and know they can not get extended cover on the car and therefore this will affect the residual.
griff7 said:
Totally agree.
These cars can do so many miles if serviced on schedule or in my case every few thousand miles that a car with less than 10k miles with most of that done with paying customers then there should be no issue.My car has done about 700 laps of the ring now and never missed a beat and mates have done over 50k of track miles with no issues but correct servicing.
Fine. But most people wouldn't want to buy such a car if they knew its history – that's the point.These cars can do so many miles if serviced on schedule or in my case every few thousand miles that a car with less than 10k miles with most of that done with paying customers then there should be no issue.My car has done about 700 laps of the ring now and never missed a beat and mates have done over 50k of track miles with no issues but correct servicing.
Gassing Station | M Power | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff