Lies buying an AUC

[mph1977]

2.5pi said:

Butter Face said:

I ask because I've sold thousands of cars and taken thousands of part exchanges and never asked how many owners. Makes no difference IMO.

Buy on quality, history and how much you want it. The amount of owners means jack.

In principal yes ...but in the real world I'd always feel a tad warmer to a one owner car than a four owner car , I guess it's just playing the percentages and minimising the chances of an unsympathetic owner ragging it from cold or slipping the clutch etc etc

'one owner' is no guarantee of that , after all ex ES vehicles are 'one owner' , ditto ex spot hires - , ditto pool/ yard vehicles ...

[AW10]

Doesn't lose sight of the fact that a trader will use any excuse to lower the value of what you're trying to sell/trade. Whether it's too many owners, the wrong colour combo, an allegedly critical missing option, an indie service stamp rather than a main dealer, etc etc it's simply what they do to create as big a margin as possible. When it comes time to sell it they'll try to find a way to put a positive spin on it: very desirable model that you'll obviously have no trouble selling, unique colour scheme, rare model, serviced by a renowned specialist in the model etc.

Some people simply get bored with a car quickly or the shine wears off when the day to day reality of driving the car on their commute settles in. 6 months ago I bought a 5 owner Z4M coupe with 32K miles. For example: The owner's wife was smitten with it when she first saw it until the reality of driving it to her office hit. Heavy clutch, notchy gearbox, poor visibility for someone petite and they wanted shot of it. Can't vouch for the other previous owner's mindsets but after having done 6000 miles I'm quite comfortable there's nothing wrong the car. Sure, fewer owners on the V5C would be nice but it would still be the same car.

Value the car on its condition and paperwork/provenance and what similar models are selling for in the marketplace.

[Butter Face]

Jazzer said:

You miss my point Batman, but confirm the trade mind on the matter: the cars may well be advertised at the same price, but the one-owner one would almost certainly go for more.
Why are you being so uptight about this?
The fact is a large number of owners, especially over a short time, while not necessarily meaning that the car is dodgy or less worthy in any way, does put off a significant portion of punters.
Good luck OP.

Not being uptight, just trying to give a different angle that in truth it doesn't matter how many owners the car has had. I never meant to come across as uptight

[Wills2]

I think in the OP's case, you've bought a 3 year old low mileage, "one owner" minter e92 m3 for nearly 40k and you find out its got 4-5 owners you've every right to be pissed off.

[bitchstewie]

Do other countries have the same attitude to the number of owners?

I kind of get where the OP is coming from, but I think it's something we've been conditioned to without it making any sense whatsoever - if a car is mint it's mint, 5 owners on the book vs. 1 owner who may have driven like a tt or passed the keys around all of their family etc.

Kind of seems like an arbitrary statistic that we put too much emphasis on - but I'm guilty of it too.

[POORCARDEALER]

Other countries dont pull themselves off over service history like the uk do either...they are by far more interested in current condition

[nickfrog]

Not in my experience of France, Spain, Italy or Belgium : people tend to be the same. As I said, it doesn't matter if the concern is justified or not, it's about perception.

[JNW1]

BentleyM3 said:

Two weeks ago I bought a late model E92 M3 from BMW. I specifically wanted a low mileage late spec model and paid top money for it.

Problem I have found today when the V5 came back from the DVLA saying it has 4 previous owners, me now being the 5th. When I initially went to view the car I asked the salesman if it only had 1 previous owner which I was told it had. I believe based on this the car was well over priced and I wouldn't have bought it had I known this.

I called the dealer up today and spoke to the used car manager I explained how unimpressed I am and I want to return the car knowing this. He has said he will call me Monday, once he has spoken to his manager.

If I am honest, I am not interested in money off or anything. I bought from BMW expecting to get one of the best cars available and I have been let down and lied to.

Anyone have any experience or advice on where I stand with this?

Thanks

Had a similar type of issue with an E91 335d last year. Car was represented as a one owner car with FBMWSH; however, they couldn't put their hands on the service book (the previous owner had forgotten to put it back in the car when they traded it in) and perhaps foolishly I took a main dealer at their word when they said it was a one owner car (would have certainly demanded to see the V5 if it had been a non-franchise garage). Anyway, the service book and V5 eventually arrive and it's a two owner car with a service history from an independent and not BMW; I told the dealer in no uncertain terms I wasn't happy and without too much aggravation they offered me my money back in full. To be honest I did think I'd got away with it to some extent - I should have demanded to see both the V5 and the service book before buying - but I didn't expect a BMW main dealer to be telling porkies in a way I'd almost expect from a non-franchised garage. Therefore,depending on the dealer, you may find they'll just do you a refund to keep their reputation intact.

Does a car having had multiple owners and/or a non-main dealer service history matter? Possibly not but to my mind it's the buyer's choice as to whether multiple owners and/or a full main dealer history is important to them and a salesman is obliged to tell the truth to any questions posed so the buyer can make an informed decision; if they don't they're on thin ice IMO.

[anonymous-user]

BentleyM3 said:

wilwak said:

I got a price from WBAC thinking my car had one previous owner. When I got my V5 out I found it had had two. Must have been a pre-reg.

I logged back in to WBAC updated the details ... They knocked 8% off the value!!!

I once bought a BMW with 3 previous owners in it first two years. It had only done 4000 miles. The car simply wasn't right. Something very odd about the gearbox/engine. I sold it six months later. Lots of ownership changes can be a warning signal.

I wouldn't let the dealer off the hook.

This is exactly my thought process. I just tried WBAC and was a little gutted to say the least. I tried one owner or four. Difference in price was £6,378. I think the cars going back or I am going to create hell.

Sell it to Butterface, he says it doesn't make any difference.

Incidentally, BF, if it's generally perceived that one owner adds value, then it's highly likely that it does.

I've always been asked how many owners my trade is have had; in fact the last one I had to sign a statement to that effect (Trading wife's Z4 in for a new SLK) amongst other undertakings about it.

I would also suggest that it's a general perception that a car that has had 4 owners in 3 years has something about it that makes people move it on quickly. I appreciate it's not always the case but I would think it often is.

[BentleyM3]

Been doing a bit of digging earlier and managed to track down one of the online adverts for it. An it says 0 previous owners on the add too. So at least its not just my word against the salesman's. That plus the WBAC quotes.

[mikeyscott]

JNW1 said:

BentleyM3 said:

Two weeks ago I bought a late model E92 M3 from BMW. I specifically wanted a low mileage late spec model and paid top money for it.

Problem I have found today when the V5 came back from the DVLA saying it has 4 previous owners, me now being the 5th. When I initially went to view the car I asked the salesman if it only had 1 previous owner which I was told it had. I believe based on this the car was well over priced and I wouldn't have bought it had I known this.

I called the dealer up today and spoke to the used car manager I explained how unimpressed I am and I want to return the car knowing this. He has said he will call me Monday, once he has spoken to his manager.

If I am honest, I am not interested in money off or anything. I bought from BMW expecting to get one of the best cars available and I have been let down and lied to.

Anyone have any experience or advice on where I stand with this?

Thanks

Had a similar type of issue with an E91 335d last year. Car was represented as a one owner car with FBMWSH; however, they couldn't put their hands on the service book (the previous owner had forgotten to put it back in the car when they traded it in) and perhaps foolishly I took a main dealer at their word when they said it was a one owner car (would have certainly demanded to see the V5 if it had been a non-franchise garage). Anyway, the service book and V5 eventually arrive and it's a two owner car with a service history from an independent and not BMW; I told the dealer in no uncertain terms I wasn't happy and without too much aggravation they offered me my money back in full. To be honest I did think I'd got away with it to some extent - I should have demanded to see both the V5 and the service book before buying - but I didn't expect a BMW main dealer to be telling porkies in a way I'd almost expect from a non-franchised garage. Therefore,depending on the dealer, you may find they'll just do you a refund to keep their reputation intact.

Does a car having had multiple owners and/or a non-main dealer service history matter? Possibly not but to my mind it's the buyer's choice as to whether multiple owners and/or a full main dealer history is important to them and a salesman is obliged to tell the truth to any questions posed so the buyer can make an informed decision; if they don't they're on thin ice IMO.

Had a similar situation with another BMW main dealer, but at test drive stage. Everything booked, time off etc to view and test drive. Car then withdrawn etc.

Do the bloody checks before advertising it's not hard

Based on the OP, if it's an issue had it back. Are you going to be thinking 6 months time why did I keep it.

prob for dealer is that it's now had another owner, but not your prob.

Edited by mikeyscott on Sunday 22 November 19:55

[whoami]

mikeyscott said:

prob for dealer is that it's now had another owner,

Edited by mikeyscott on Sunday 22 November 19:55

Nah, apparently that doesn't make any difference.

[Helicopter123]

Yes, number of owners does affect the value of a car. Whether it should or shouldn't is another argument.

A higher number of owners in a short time-span does make you think "lemon".

If OP has paid top dollar, he has every right to be furious.

[ZX10R NIN]

BentleyM3 said:

Two weeks ago I bought a late model E92 M3 from BMW. I specifically wanted a low mileage late spec model and paid top money for it.

Problem I have found today when the V5 came back from the DVLA saying it has 4 previous owners, me now being the 5th. When I initially went to view the car I asked the salesman if it only had 1 previous owner which I was told it had. I believe based on this the car was well over priced and I wouldn't have bought it had I known this.

I called the dealer up today and spoke to the used car manager I explained how unimpressed I am and I want to return the car knowing this. He has said he will call me Monday, once he has spoken to his manager.

If I am honest, I am not interested in money off or anything. I bought from BMW expecting to get one of the best cars available and I have been let down and lied to.

Anyone have any experience or advice on where I stand with this?

Thanks

OP not trying to be funny but looking at the log book tells you the number of owners also didn't you do an HPI check?

[BentleyM3]

ZX10R NIN said:

OP not trying to be funny but looking at the log book tells you the number of owners also didn't you do an HPI check?

Well, if you read the thread you would see I obviously didn't.

It's very easy for all the experts to point out all the things that should have been checked, but as I said earlier buying from an approved dealership you hope that everything is above board and when you ask a straight forward question you do not expect to be lied to. I was given an Experian report on the car, but that didn't show the previous owners on it.

Edited by BentleyM3 on Sunday 22 November 21:58

[Wills2]

Call the DP tomorrow and tell him he can have the car back.

[mikeyscott]

Wills2 said:

Call the DP tomorrow and tell him he can have the car back.

Totally agree

[nickfrog]

JNW1 said:

I didn't expect a BMW main dealer to be telling porkies in a way I'd almost expect from a non-franchised garage.

There are exceptions of course but by and large that's part for the course in this particular industry IME, possibly even worse with the franchises.

They usually care about what they can sell today and don't care about a healthy sales pipeline of returning customers.

[Harry_S]

I agree with the previous chaps who have commented that the number of previous owners DOES and should matter. It is one of the first questions i ask when enquiring about a used car whether it be a private sale or dealer.
Number of owners makes a difference to trade in value so why should it not when buying???

Those commenting and saying that 'oh do not let it affect a potentially good car, and it should not matter' have obviously never had the pleasure of being sold a lemon or bad car: man aren't they a lucky bunch.

When speaking to a super car dealership salesman who has had many dealings with used cars >£100k cars he commented that number of owners should not matter as the type of buyers that purchase these types of cars do so for only a few months at a time and then move on to their next plaything.

But on a BMW even if it is an M car i would say it is more the type of car bought by an enthusiast(s) like ourselves who would have been very picky regarding spec and condition AND number of owners etc.
As a previous member commented rather a car with one careful enthusiast owner; than one which has had 4 different owners (one or few of whom may/may not have looked have looked after the car properly be it using different tyres, ragging it from cold or driving like you stole it etc).

I respect everyones opinion but to say that a used cars previous number of owners should not matter is rather like saying the girl I'm about to marry "it doesn't matter how many previous partners she had as long as she's in good condition" LOL what even???

Edited by Harry_S on Monday 23 November 00:04

[ZX10R NIN]

BentleyM3 said:

Well, if you read the thread you would see I obviously didn't.

It's very easy for all the experts to point out all the things that should have been checked, but as I said earlier buying from an approved dealership you hope that everything is above board and when you ask a straight forward question you do not expect to be lied to. I was given an Experian report on the car, but that didn't show the previous owners on it.

Edited by BentleyM3 on Sunday 22 November 21:58

I know you didn't but why not if the number of owners is such a big issue for you? You've already stated that you knew you were paying over the odds for the car why not make sure, so what if you're buying from a main dealer they get it wrong all the time deliberately or otherwise.

You should get your money back but part of this is on you.