Lies buying an AUC

[jas xjr]

My logic regarding this situation is that if someone has bought the car new they are more likely to look after it than maybe the fourth owner. I know it is not impossible that the first owner would abuse the car but less likely,I would have thought.

[JNW1]

ZX10R NIN said:

BentleyM3 said:

Well, if you read the thread you would see I obviously didn't.

It's very easy for all the experts to point out all the things that should have been checked, but as I said earlier buying from an approved dealership you hope that everything is above board and when you ask a straight forward question you do not expect to be lied to. I was given an Experian report on the car, but that didn't show the previous owners on it.

Edited by BentleyM3 on Sunday 22 November 21:58

I know you didn't but why not if the number of owners is such a big issue for you? You've already stated that you knew you were paying over the odds for the car why not make sure, so what if you're buying from a main dealer they get it wrong all the time deliberately or otherwise.

You should get your money back but part of this is on you.

If the OP hadn't asked the question about number of owners - and had just assumed it was a one owner car because of the low mileage - that would have been very much his problem. However, if he's asked a specific question and been given an answer of "one owner" by the salesman I think it's reasonable for him to rely on that and assume he's been told the truth; if when the V5 arrives it emerges he hasn't I think the dealer is very much on the back foot and if the OP then says "the car's been misrepresented so you can have it back and I want a full refund" he's got a good case IMO. I do agree there's an element of buyer beware in this but if you ask a salesman straight questions they shouldn't be able to give you incorrect answers (intentionally or otherwise) and get away with it; belt and braces is you ask to see evidence to support anything you've been told (so V5, service history, etc) but not convinced the law obliges you to go that far?

[ZX10R NIN]

There have been a more than a few threads on here where the dealer has got it wrong intentionally or otherwise, so I'd expect someone from PH to take a minute to look at the log book. It isn't the most taxing thing to do especially as the OP would have been in there the best part of 30+ minutes.

I agree he should get a full refund but he IMO has to shoulder a little bit of responsibility also an Experian report is not an HPI nowhere near as comprehensive, I've notice a few dealers doing this lately.

[Granfondo]

ZX10R NIN said:

There have been a more than a few threads on here where the dealer has got it wrong intentionally or otherwise, so I'd expect someone from PH to take a minute to look at the log book. It isn't the most taxing thing to do especially as the OP would have been in there the best part of 30+ minutes.

I agree he should get a full refund but he IMO has to shoulder a little bit of responsibility also an Experian report is not an HPI nowhere near as comprehensive, I've notice a few dealers doing this lately.

I would expect a BMW AUC M car to have been HPI'd ,service history checked and any direct questions about owners to be all done and not have to go doing all the things you would do on a private sale and getting the car £8-10k cheaper in this case!

[JNW1]

ZX10R NIN said:

There have been a more than a few threads on here where the dealer has got it wrong intentionally or otherwise, so I'd expect someone from PH to take a minute to look at the log book. It isn't the most taxing thing to do especially as the OP would have been in there the best part of 30+ minutes.

I agree he should get a full refund but he IMO has to shoulder a little bit of responsibility also an Experian report is not an HPI nowhere near as comprehensive, I've notice a few dealers doing this lately.

I understand where you're coming from and I daresay that with the wisdom of hindsight the OP is probably kicking himself ever so slightly! When our E91 purchase went wrong last year I was certainly annoyed with myself for not holding-out to see the service book before agreeing the deal but when I made my points to the Used Car Sales Manager it was all sorted very quickly and to my satisfaction (and via the phone and e-mail, I didn't even need to go back and have a face to face meeting). I still think that legally a dealer is on thin ice if they misrepresent a vehicle but if you're dealing with a back street garage I can well imagine they'd just deny ever having been asked about things like number of owners or service history and try to put the onus on you to prove you'd posed the relevant questions; you'd like to think a BMW main agent would be above all that but perhaps some aren't and therefore seeing the documentation before signing on the dotted line is probably good practice and certainly the safest option.

[JMBMWM5]

Being unhappy with the Seller puts a big downer on the Purchase, and that sometimes stays spoiling the enjoyment of the car, best get a full refund and start looking again IMO.

[walm]

Don't demand all your money back.
Find out the WBAC value with the correct number of owners.
Insist the dealer makes up the difference to the price you paid!

[Jim1556]

walm said:

Don't demand all your money back.
Find out the WBAC value with the correct number of owners.
Insist the dealer makes up the difference to the price you paid!

BentleyM3 said:

This is exactly my thought process. I just tried WBAC and was a little gutted to say the least. I tried one owner or four. Difference in price was £6,378. I think the cars going back or I am going to create hell.

RTFT

Page 2...

[Timbuk2]

I don't know why people try and argue the number of owners doesn't make any difference to a car. I always try and buy with the least number of owners but dealers will always try and trick you or hide the real number of owners. If it made no difference to buyers why would they do that or bother advertising ONE OWNER.

A "One owner car" can often be 1 former keeper on the V5 so actually two owners and you will be the 3rd.

The fact is, the more people have owned the car, the more people have sold the car.

This means there are a higher number of people who have thought "oh well, I'm getting rid of it so; I'll redline it from cold/not bother getting it serviced properly, just get an oil change for a service stamp/not get that little niggle fixed" etc.

A one owner car will be more likely to have been looked after properly than a 5 owner car with the same miles.

Also like another poster said it can be a warning sign something is wrong and people have just sold it on.

Some people are not bothered by a lot of owners though, that's great as it leaves the low owner ones for people who do mind

OP I would definitely reject if you're not happy.

[BentleyM3]

Been in contact today, and no arguing that they where in the wrong. Even admitted saying it had 1 owner. Have said they will take the car back. Also, have been offered a sensible compensation package on it.

Had a friend who works at another dealer look into the car more closely and its never had any warranty claims or work done within the network, so it seems a genuine enough car.

I am gonna sleep on it.

[Jim1556]

I'd be inclined to let them make you an offer (post sale discount) if you think it's a good enough car, ie £5k back now, plus free servicing for a year will negate your loss when you come to sell it later...?

But, at the end of the day, I think I'd still probably prefer a low owner car, big difference between 1 and 4!...

[Granfondo]

Jim1556 said:

I'd be inclined to let them make you an offer (post sale discount) if you think it's a good enough car, ie £5k back now, plus free servicing for a year will negate your loss when you come to sell it later...?

But, at the end of the day, I think I'd still probably prefer a low owner car, big difference between 1 and 4!...

I would be amazed if they offer more than £2k!

[JNW1]

BentleyM3 said:

Been in contact today, and no arguing that they where in the wrong. Even admitted saying it had 1 owner. Have said they will take the car back. Also, have been offered a sensible compensation package on it.

Had a friend who works at another dealer look into the car more closely and its never had any warranty claims or work done within the network, so it seems a genuine enough car.

I am gonna sleep on it.

So the dealer's saying they'll either take the car back and give you a full refund or you can keep it and they'll compensate you for the fact they didn't represent it accurately? If so that seems fair enough on their part and you've got what you wanted in the sense the outcome's now in your hands and you can make a decision in the knowledge you won't lose out. Think it probably now comes down to how you feel about the car; if you're always going to be slightly uneasy about it because of the multiple owners then perhaps best to get your money back and move on. When we had the problem with the E91 last year I'd noticed one or two other things I wasn't quite happy about in the first couple of weeks of ownership (amazing what you spot when you hand wash a car!) so when the V5 showed multiple owners - and the service book a non-franchise history - it effectively gave me the opportunity to get out of something I probably shouldn't have bought in the first place. However, if in your case the car is driving as you'd hoped - and you'd be delighted with it had the V5 arrived showing only one previous owner - maybe you just push for the best compensation package you can get and keep it? Anyway, at least you're now in control so good luck with whatever you decide!

[POORCARDEALER]

Dealer isnt going to give £5K back, thats ridiculous...far easier to take the car back and sell it to someone who doesnt even ask or care how many owners its had, for the same money.

[walm]

Jim1556 said:

walm said:

Don't demand all your money back.
Find out the WBAC value with the correct number of owners.
Insist the dealer makes up the difference to the price you paid!

BentleyM3 said:

This is exactly my thought process. I just tried WBAC and was a little gutted to say the least. I tried one owner or four. Difference in price was £6,378. I think the cars going back or I am going to create hell.

RTFT

Page 2...

Nice rolleyes.
If you read what I wrote, I suggested the difference between what he paid and the WBAC with the right number of owners.
Not the WBAC with one vs. WBAC with four.
Either way - he should clearly just give the car back.
These aren't SO rare that he won't be able to find the one with the exact spec he wants.

[andymc]

Take the compensation and run it for 3 years and at that point it shouldn't have a great deal of bearing on the price

[Vroomer]

Hand the car back, get a refund and buy from a dealer you can trust.

[Crusoe]

The number of owners is not necessarily a huge concern, it depends who the owners are, when they had it and for how long. A two year old BMW with three owners might be an issue if the last two kept it for a very short period of time just before you bought it, but if the first was the dealer pre-registering it, the second was a lease company and the third the same owner who bought it back after the end of the lease then it could have really only had one driver.

30 year old Ferrari with three owners from new, with two in the last three months - or a 30 year old Ferrari with eight owners from new, seven in the first ten years and the last owner for 20 years with a folder full of maintenance bills and receipts.

[twokcc]

If you decide to keep the car as well as any discount ask for an extra years warranty (AUC) over and above the 12 month one that the car comes with. At least then if any problems will be a cost to dealer not to you and if after 18 months you still not happy can sell on with 6 months warranty. Expect to get a kick in the b*lls when buyer founds out how many owners!

[Vroomer]

A new car should be a joyous thing – not something you are unhappy with from the start. If in doubt, kick it out.