I traded in my new M4 for an f80 m3 after 1 month -explained
Discussion
I don't know if anyone else has suffered with bad headroom/seating position in either the new m3 & m4 or the old e92 m3.
A bit of a long story but I've recently own an M4 coupe an m4 convertible and an f80 M3, all within the last 4 months. So to cut a long story short, I've now settled with a 65 plate M3 and have cut the roof lining out above the driver seat. This is the only way I was able sit in a good driving position!!! It would also allow me to wear a helmet on track. Has anyone else suffered with this issue ? I'm 6'2 and average build, so you wouldn't imagine any issues...
M4 coupe, 65 plate - I bought this car first. Great car and I drive the initial 1200 miles. During this time I struggled to find a comfortable position and headroom was really quite poor. When the car went in for its running in service, there was a a few mechanical problems which would take a week or so to fix (ended up being over two weeks). While the car was being fixed they loaned me a 15 plate M3 (pre facelift), the car was amazing... The seat sat lower in the car, loads of headroom (allowing for a more up right driving position) and significantly more comfortable. I'd also add that it seemed to be much more controllable and fun to drive. Anyway I got my m4 back and I was so disappointed with the car compared to the m3 (mainly because of poor headroom and unable to find a good driving position) that I traded it in and bought an m3 f80.
M4 convertible, 65 plate - whilst I was waiting for the m3 to be prepared (carbon body kit, steering wheel etc) I was given the M4 conv for a week. I really enjoyed driving this car. It has different seats to the coupe/m3 and they were very good. The conv also had significantly more headroom/driving position than the coupe, and the pedals were better positioned. I'm not a big fan of convs, but this car actually hid its extra weight very well and was really very fast. It only suffered when pushed really hard, if you hadn't driven the coupe or saloon, you'd never worry about it not being quite as quick. The shape is also quite unique.
F80 M3, 65 plate facelift - So I was quite excited about taking delivery of the M3, black with all the carbon kit etc, and also because I'd enjoyed the loan car M3 so much. However when I got in the car I noticed the seating position had changed!! The seat now sat higher in the car compared to the 15 plate M3 I had driven for a couple of weeks... I thought I was imagining it, but I just couldn't get comfortable. So I went to the dealership and spoke to the mechanics, who confirmed the seating position had been revised at facelift and now sits higher, and the pedals also seem to be positioned further away... Why would BMW do this??? It makes no sense!!! The previous f80 M3 was perfect... Anyway long story short, I noticed that there seemed to be a lot of space between the roof lining and the actual roof, over 4 inches in fact, so I just cut the roof lining out about the driver seat. A bit dramatic but now its perfect...lots of headroom so I'm able to sit closer to the wheel/pedals and a bit more upright. Happy to add some pictures if anyone wants a laugh...
Anyway just thought I would share this unusual story to see if anyone else was having issues with the seating position of these cars.
I'm also happy to share any other information about how the M4 and M3 differ or answer any questions about the m4 vs m3 if anyone is trying to decide which to buy.
A bit of a long story but I've recently own an M4 coupe an m4 convertible and an f80 M3, all within the last 4 months. So to cut a long story short, I've now settled with a 65 plate M3 and have cut the roof lining out above the driver seat. This is the only way I was able sit in a good driving position!!! It would also allow me to wear a helmet on track. Has anyone else suffered with this issue ? I'm 6'2 and average build, so you wouldn't imagine any issues...
M4 coupe, 65 plate - I bought this car first. Great car and I drive the initial 1200 miles. During this time I struggled to find a comfortable position and headroom was really quite poor. When the car went in for its running in service, there was a a few mechanical problems which would take a week or so to fix (ended up being over two weeks). While the car was being fixed they loaned me a 15 plate M3 (pre facelift), the car was amazing... The seat sat lower in the car, loads of headroom (allowing for a more up right driving position) and significantly more comfortable. I'd also add that it seemed to be much more controllable and fun to drive. Anyway I got my m4 back and I was so disappointed with the car compared to the m3 (mainly because of poor headroom and unable to find a good driving position) that I traded it in and bought an m3 f80.
M4 convertible, 65 plate - whilst I was waiting for the m3 to be prepared (carbon body kit, steering wheel etc) I was given the M4 conv for a week. I really enjoyed driving this car. It has different seats to the coupe/m3 and they were very good. The conv also had significantly more headroom/driving position than the coupe, and the pedals were better positioned. I'm not a big fan of convs, but this car actually hid its extra weight very well and was really very fast. It only suffered when pushed really hard, if you hadn't driven the coupe or saloon, you'd never worry about it not being quite as quick. The shape is also quite unique.
F80 M3, 65 plate facelift - So I was quite excited about taking delivery of the M3, black with all the carbon kit etc, and also because I'd enjoyed the loan car M3 so much. However when I got in the car I noticed the seating position had changed!! The seat now sat higher in the car compared to the 15 plate M3 I had driven for a couple of weeks... I thought I was imagining it, but I just couldn't get comfortable. So I went to the dealership and spoke to the mechanics, who confirmed the seating position had been revised at facelift and now sits higher, and the pedals also seem to be positioned further away... Why would BMW do this??? It makes no sense!!! The previous f80 M3 was perfect... Anyway long story short, I noticed that there seemed to be a lot of space between the roof lining and the actual roof, over 4 inches in fact, so I just cut the roof lining out about the driver seat. A bit dramatic but now its perfect...lots of headroom so I'm able to sit closer to the wheel/pedals and a bit more upright. Happy to add some pictures if anyone wants a laugh...
Anyway just thought I would share this unusual story to see if anyone else was having issues with the seating position of these cars.
I'm also happy to share any other information about how the M4 and M3 differ or answer any questions about the m4 vs m3 if anyone is trying to decide which to buy.
Yes it's been quite an ordeal .... and actually made me question buying another bmw... And I've been a customer for over 5 years and have owner 5 M cars....
The M3 is just a bit more riotous to drive, the backend breaks away a bit sooner than the m4, but somehow feels easier to control. The extra space and practically, but with the same performance as the m4 makes the m3 seem like it's taking itself less seriously, a bit more of a hero car... Also its stance with those rear wheel arches make it very aggressive and it seems to get a lot of attention in a positive way... More so than with the m4, although I was also a big fan of how the m4 looked, I had mineral white with the full carbon kit (front splitter, rear defuser, spoiler, side skirts etc) black wheels, looked epic...
The M3 is just a bit more riotous to drive, the backend breaks away a bit sooner than the m4, but somehow feels easier to control. The extra space and practically, but with the same performance as the m4 makes the m3 seem like it's taking itself less seriously, a bit more of a hero car... Also its stance with those rear wheel arches make it very aggressive and it seems to get a lot of attention in a positive way... More so than with the m4, although I was also a big fan of how the m4 looked, I had mineral white with the full carbon kit (front splitter, rear defuser, spoiler, side skirts etc) black wheels, looked epic...
Yes I'm aware that the seat lowers 
Yes, it's the seating mounts that have changed and the pedal distancing, so not able to put the pre facelift seats in.
I just wonder who takes these decisions at Bmw, what is the reasoning, what market research they conduct? It just makes no sense..... What's their target audience ? Surely driving position is one of the most important aspects of a performance car? The pre facelift version sat lower but was able to be raised very high too, therefore allowing for drivers of all heights, with or without helmet.....
I considered a 991 gts before the m4...I can't help but think that Porsche wouldn't let this happen, as they hold pure performance (including driving position/seats) at the centre of everything they do. Is the M decision now just trying to target a too wider audience ? An audience who may never buy an M product...If you try to please everyone, you'll miss your actual target audience. I'd love to speak to the person at the M division who makes these decisions and understand their thinking.
First time I've used a forum (but really wanted to share this experience), how do you add a pic? I'll share the pics of the roof lining
Yes, it's the seating mounts that have changed and the pedal distancing, so not able to put the pre facelift seats in.
I just wonder who takes these decisions at Bmw, what is the reasoning, what market research they conduct? It just makes no sense..... What's their target audience ? Surely driving position is one of the most important aspects of a performance car? The pre facelift version sat lower but was able to be raised very high too, therefore allowing for drivers of all heights, with or without helmet.....
I considered a 991 gts before the m4...I can't help but think that Porsche wouldn't let this happen, as they hold pure performance (including driving position/seats) at the centre of everything they do. Is the M decision now just trying to target a too wider audience ? An audience who may never buy an M product...If you try to please everyone, you'll miss your actual target audience. I'd love to speak to the person at the M division who makes these decisions and understand their thinking.
First time I've used a forum (but really wanted to share this experience), how do you add a pic? I'll share the pics of the roof lining
![](http://thumbsnap.com/sc/RlBrnBws.jpg[/img]</a> <a href="http://thumbsnap.com/RlBrnBws" Target="_blank" rel="nofollow">[img]http://thumbsnap.com/sc/RlBrnBws.jpg[/img]</a> <a href="http://thumbsnap.com/CcV2hIfB" Target="_blank" rel="nofollow">[img]http://thumbsnap.com/sc/CcV2hIfB.jpg[/img]</a> <a href="http://thumbsnap.com/GKOIKV2E" Target="_blank" rel="nofollow">[img]http://thumbsnap.com/sc/GKOIKV2E.jpg[/img]</a> <a href="http://thumbsnap.com/MYdj4kNF" Target="_blank" rel="nofollow">[img]http://thumbsnap.com/sc/MYdj4kNF.jpg)
I don't think I'll be getting a job at bmw interior design any time soon....
It's not that my head is in the hole, I've justed removed the piece in the lining where it drops down quite a lot just before the sun visor. It's this part that causes issues when sat quite upright and close to the wheel/pedals, especially when wearing a helmet.... I feel I only have full control of the car and connected at speed when I'm sat quite upright...
It's not that my head is in the hole, I've justed removed the piece in the lining where it drops down quite a lot just before the sun visor. It's this part that causes issues when sat quite upright and close to the wheel/pedals, especially when wearing a helmet.... I feel I only have full control of the car and connected at speed when I'm sat quite upright...
Wow, how close to the wheel do you sit?! When sat in my normal driving position in my M3 my head is just behind the roof grab handle. I tried sitting forward with my head where you appear to have cut the hole in your roof lining and my chest is virtually touching the steering wheel!!
0836whimper said:
Wow
All that effort to swap, and it turns out be to the same !
I'd want my lost trade-in money back from BMW.
Wonder why the M3 was better to drive (apart from seats) ?
All that effort to swap, and it turns out be to the same !
I'd want my lost trade-in money back from BMW.
Wonder why the M3 was better to drive (apart from seats) ?
What?! You blame BMW because a punter doesn't bother to check that he's comfortable in a car before he buys it? Notwithstanding the fact that said customer appears to sit in a very odd position judging by the butchery he's undertaken.
Unbelievable.
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