M5 to D5 change - first impressions
Discussion
About 3 weeks ago my M5 was written off in a rear-end shunt.
I had never fully fallen in love with it in 6 months of ownership, so I decided to replace it with an Alpina D5.
First impression, after a couple of days, is that I much prefer it - suspension is significantly better - much more comfortable and less clattery (despite 20" rims on both cars), and more in key with the road surface. Steering feels better - but that may just be because of the thinner steering wheel.
The engine is obviously not nearly as powerful or tuneful, but it feels a lot more responsive at lower speeds (the M5 was a bit of a nightmare pulling into into moving traffic - either nothing or wheelspin) and the D5 seems to be returning 2x the MPG.
Time will tell, but I think this one is a keeper.
I had never fully fallen in love with it in 6 months of ownership, so I decided to replace it with an Alpina D5.
First impression, after a couple of days, is that I much prefer it - suspension is significantly better - much more comfortable and less clattery (despite 20" rims on both cars), and more in key with the road surface. Steering feels better - but that may just be because of the thinner steering wheel.
The engine is obviously not nearly as powerful or tuneful, but it feels a lot more responsive at lower speeds (the M5 was a bit of a nightmare pulling into into moving traffic - either nothing or wheelspin) and the D5 seems to be returning 2x the MPG.
Time will tell, but I think this one is a keeper.
Also had an F10 M5 and didn't gel with it at all. Bought it new, the turbo lag was noticeable, car was far too wiedly (my dad's 520d feels more nimble) and noise wasn't that great relative to my previous car which was an E92 M3. Kept the M5 less than a year.. Also joining the Alpina camp with a new D3.
Knowing nothing about Alpjna's, am i right in reading you didn't gel with your M5's so have jumped to Diesels, albeit quite quick ones?
Assuming i'm reading that correctly, perhaps the M5 wasn't the car you were lusting after in the first place. A lot of cars on the market i'd chop my M5 in for, but only better cars, certainly not an oil burner unless i needed to reduce my running costs.
Assuming i'm reading that correctly, perhaps the M5 wasn't the car you were lusting after in the first place. A lot of cars on the market i'd chop my M5 in for, but only better cars, certainly not an oil burner unless i needed to reduce my running costs.
W8PMC said:
Knowing nothing about Alpjna's, am i right in reading you didn't gel with your M5's so have jumped to Diesels, albeit quite quick ones?
Assuming i'm reading that correctly, perhaps the M5 wasn't the car you were lusting after in the first place. A lot of cars on the market i'd chop my M5 in for, but only better cars, certainly not an oil burner unless i needed to reduce my running costs.
A D5 is not just any oil burnerAssuming i'm reading that correctly, perhaps the M5 wasn't the car you were lusting after in the first place. A lot of cars on the market i'd chop my M5 in for, but only better cars, certainly not an oil burner unless i needed to reduce my running costs.
W8PMC said:
Knowing nothing about Alpjna's, am i right in reading you didn't gel with your M5's so have jumped to Diesels, albeit quite quick ones?
Assuming i'm reading that correctly, perhaps the M5 wasn't the car you were lusting after in the first place. A lot of cars on the market i'd chop my M5 in for, but only better cars, certainly not an oil burner unless i needed to reduce my running costs.
How can you decide that a car isn't better if you profess to know nothing about it?Assuming i'm reading that correctly, perhaps the M5 wasn't the car you were lusting after in the first place. A lot of cars on the market i'd chop my M5 in for, but only better cars, certainly not an oil burner unless i needed to reduce my running costs.
Try one. You may well be surprised. I was surprised how much more refined the Alpina is. The suspension and steering are far superior to the M5.
Hawmaws said:
How can you decide that a car isn't better if you profess to know nothing about it?
Try one. You may well be surprised. I was surprised how much more refined the Alpina is. The suspension and steering are far superior to the M5.
I've driven quick diesels but my point is (unless i'm missing something obvious) is they're hardly competing cars. One's a quick diesel & one's an M. The Aplina shares none of the M's characteristics as doesn't have the M-DCT, doesn't have the trick suspension, doesn't have a twin turbo V8 petrol & doesn't have the M specific traction control (among any other points). I'm far from knocking the Alpina, but it's like the aged old debate with the E60's that a tuned up 535d was 'nearly' as quick as an E60 M5, which perhaps it was but that's straight line speed & the diesel was lacking in all the other M characteristics.Try one. You may well be surprised. I was surprised how much more refined the Alpina is. The suspension and steering are far superior to the M5.
When you say the steering & suspension are superior, in what way? I'd guess it's more weighted to being a competent cross country cruiser rather than hooligan & show both cars a track i'm sure the Alpina would be left wanting.
I'm not saying the Alpina couldn't be better, but better at what as they're hardly cut from the same cloth & therefore yes it may be better at doing the things the M5 doesn't try or even want to do. My wife's Mini Cooper S Countryman is better at going to the tip, carrying crap around & offers a better MPG, but i'd not be wanting to swap my car for one.
I'm a big fan of Alpina so 'get' the appeal of the D5 but I'm surprised to hear the steering is any better - I presume Alpina stick with the electric steering system in the F10 its based on? I found the steering in my M5 vastly better to the electric steering cars I'd become used to beforehand. One thing Alpina does seem to nail consistently is ride quality for UK roads, but then I don't find that to be a problem in the M5 either.
Was the B5 ever considered/compared?
Was the B5 ever considered/compared?
peter777s said:
Also had an F10 M5 and didn't gel with it at all. Bought it new, the turbo lag was noticeable, car was far too wiedly (my dad's 520d feels more nimble) and noise wasn't that great relative to my previous car which was an E92 M3. Kept the M5 less than a year.. Also joining the Alpina camp with a new D3.
Your car was broken then if a 520d felt better (I mean seriously?) and you didn't like the noise but have a D3 on order...good luck with that. 
W8PMC said:
I've driven quick diesels but my point is (unless i'm missing something obvious) is they're hardly competing cars. One's a quick diesel & one's an M. The Aplina shares none of the M's characteristics as doesn't have the M-DCT, doesn't have the trick suspension, doesn't have a twin turbo V8 petrol & doesn't have the M specific traction control (among any other points). I'm far from knocking the Alpina, but it's like the aged old debate with the E60's that a tuned up 535d was 'nearly' as quick as an E60 M5, which perhaps it was but that's straight line speed & the diesel was lacking in all the other M characteristics.
When you say the steering & suspension are superior, in what way? I'd guess it's more weighted to being a competent cross country cruiser rather than hooligan & show both cars a track i'm sure the Alpina would be left wanting.
I'm not saying the Alpina couldn't be better, but better at what as they're hardly cut from the same cloth & therefore yes it may be better at doing the things the M5 doesn't try or even want to do. My wife's Mini Cooper S Countryman is better at going to the tip, carrying crap around & offers a better MPG, but i'd not be wanting to swap my car for one.
Wow - I think you need to try an Alpina on an extended drive and using an analogy of a Mini Countryman as a comparison When you say the steering & suspension are superior, in what way? I'd guess it's more weighted to being a competent cross country cruiser rather than hooligan & show both cars a track i'm sure the Alpina would be left wanting.
I'm not saying the Alpina couldn't be better, but better at what as they're hardly cut from the same cloth & therefore yes it may be better at doing the things the M5 doesn't try or even want to do. My wife's Mini Cooper S Countryman is better at going to the tip, carrying crap around & offers a better MPG, but i'd not be wanting to swap my car for one.
My last three consecutive cars have all been M' including two M3's and an F10 M5 - so I think I can draw a proper comparison. I too didn't get Alpina's but a collegue of mine bought one last year and we swapped cars for a couple of days. I was then hooked, so much so that I ordered a new Alpina. I'm certainly not buying the D3 because it's a diesel - the economy is just a bonus. The recent road test of the M5 on pistonheads is pretty much how I would sum up my experience with the M5 F10.
Wills2 said:
peter777s said:
Also had an F10 M5 and didn't gel with it at all. Bought it new, the turbo lag was noticeable, car was far too wiedly (my dad's 520d feels more nimble) and noise wasn't that great relative to my previous car which was an E92 M3. Kept the M5 less than a year.. Also joining the Alpina camp with a new D3.
Your car was broken then if a 520d felt better (I mean seriously?) and you didn't like the noise but have a D3 on order...good luck with that. You won't find a bigger ///M fan than me, but I can relate to recent M-cars feeling all at sea on UK roads. The last 'Motorsport' product I drove was the 1M and having driven a colleague's 123d prior I was expecting great things from the baby M.
No one was more disappointed than me to discover that the 123d felt better to drive on UK roads than the 1M! Sure it wasn't as fast, but somehow it just seemed to flow better, working with me rather than fidgeting and crashing like the 1M.
I think BMW are too focussed on making their current M-cars post ridiculous Ring times at the sacrifice of on road, real world driving.
I'm not surprised that the Alpina is a nicer thing to drive - devil's fuel or not.
peter777s said:
Wow - I think you need to try an Alpina on an extended drive and using an analogy of a Mini Countryman as a comparison
My last three consecutive cars have all been M' including two M3's and an F10 M5 - so I think I can draw a proper comparison. I too didn't get Alpina's but a collegue of mine bought one last year and we swapped cars for a couple of days. I was then hooked, so much so that I ordered a new Alpina. I'm certainly not buying the D3 because it's a diesel - the economy is just a bonus. The recent road test of the M5 on pistonheads is pretty much how I would sum up my experience with the M5 F10.
My analogy of the Mini was purely that other cars (non M) will be better at some things, however the Alpina (along with other cars) is not a car i'd consider as better than an M5 unless you want things the M5 either can't do or maybe is not as good at or designed to be good at, but other than the body style it isn't an M & never will be, i'd also be pretty sure it isn't trying to be either. The same could be said for any of the BMW F10 estates, they're all better than the M5 at carrying stuff, probably the higher spec cars are also more comfortable over long distances, however that i'd find strange as i find my car to be sublimely comfortable over long distances but mine's on 19's so perhaps different to those on 20's.My last three consecutive cars have all been M' including two M3's and an F10 M5 - so I think I can draw a proper comparison. I too didn't get Alpina's but a collegue of mine bought one last year and we swapped cars for a couple of days. I was then hooked, so much so that I ordered a new Alpina. I'm certainly not buying the D3 because it's a diesel - the economy is just a bonus. The recent road test of the M5 on pistonheads is pretty much how I would sum up my experience with the M5 F10.
You're right however in that i've never driven a B5 as i wanted an M & as such i'm certainly not disputing your claims, merely suggesting your wants from the car maybe different to those that want & clearly enjoy the M5.
theboss said:
I'm a big fan of Alpina so 'get' the appeal of the D5 but I'm surprised to hear the steering is any better - I presume Alpina stick with the electric steering system in the F10 its based on? I found the steering in my M5 vastly better to the electric steering cars I'd become used to beforehand. One thing Alpina does seem to nail consistently is ride quality for UK roads, but then I don't find that to be a problem in the M5 either.
Was the B5 ever considered/compared?
I'm not sure why the steering is better - it does feel more direct to me, though. I suppose it may be due to the different suspension, and maybe the thinner wheel. The front end seems a bit less vague, to the point that the car feels a bit smaller.Was the B5 ever considered/compared?
B5 - there aren't many around, but even allowing for that, I think I would prefer the D5. Seems more in line with the nature of the car.
I suppose I've realised that I want a comfy cruiser that can toughen up and really shift a bit when required, rather than a very fast car that is, to my taste, a compromised long-range car.
joscal said:
I would love to try one. Would make a sensational second hand buy I would imagine!
You'd do well to find a D5 or B5 second hand I looked the other day...not many for sale at all. In fact someone posted the other day Alpina registration numbers in the UK....the big cars sell in very low numbers. Good news is that means exclusivity! Pennyroyal Tea said:
Don't be so quick to shoot the guy down...
You won't find a bigger ///M fan than me, but I can relate to recent M-cars feeling all at sea on UK roads. The last 'Motorsport' product I drove was the 1M and having driven a colleague's 123d prior I was expecting great things from the baby M.
No one was more disappointed than me to discover that the 123d felt better to drive on UK roads than the 1M! Sure it wasn't as fast, but somehow it just seemed to flow better, working with me rather than fidgeting and crashing like the 1M.
I think BMW are too focussed on making their current M-cars post ridiculous Ring times at the sacrifice of on road, real world driving.
I'm not surprised that the Alpina is a nicer thing to drive - devil's fuel or not.
I have had two previous iterations of the M3 and drove the current one a couple of weeks ago. I didn't think it was a particularly well resolved car...I am obviously older now but I was really hoping far a car that with modern chassis tech could provide a car that would have a Comfort mode which is I suppose akin to what the Alpina provides with one or two more sportier settings. The firmest setting wasn't a realistic option on the roads where I drove the car. It definitely fidgets and crashes even in the Comfort mode...probably the result of the marketing department rather than the chassis engineers...a bit like the optional 19" wheels on the E46 were.You won't find a bigger ///M fan than me, but I can relate to recent M-cars feeling all at sea on UK roads. The last 'Motorsport' product I drove was the 1M and having driven a colleague's 123d prior I was expecting great things from the baby M.
No one was more disappointed than me to discover that the 123d felt better to drive on UK roads than the 1M! Sure it wasn't as fast, but somehow it just seemed to flow better, working with me rather than fidgeting and crashing like the 1M.
I think BMW are too focussed on making their current M-cars post ridiculous Ring times at the sacrifice of on road, real world driving.
I'm not surprised that the Alpina is a nicer thing to drive - devil's fuel or not.
I think a more rounded car would sell miles better. Give me a car that when I am with the family doesn't have the ride compromises of the current car but when I am on my own lets me drive it "properly" and I'd be very interested. It just felt very artificial as a car....a bit like the exhaust note which if you are standing beside an M3 on start up sounds ludicrous.
W8PMC said:
My analogy of the Mini was purely that other cars (non M) will be better at some things, however the Alpina (along with other cars) is not a car i'd consider as better than an M5 unless you want things the M5 either can't do or maybe is not as good at or designed to be good at, but other than the body style it isn't an M & never will be, i'd also be pretty sure it isn't trying to be either. The same could be said for any of the BMW F10 estates, they're all better than the M5 at carrying stuff, probably the higher spec cars are also more comfortable over long distances, however that i'd find strange as i find my car to be sublimely comfortable over long distances but mine's on 19's so perhaps different to those on 20's.
You're right however in that i've never driven a B5 as i wanted an M & as such i'm certainly not disputing your claims, merely suggesting your wants from the car maybe different to those that want & clearly enjoy the M5.
Try an Alpina over an extended drive, (Sytner's are quite obliging to the right potential customer), I think you'll be pleasantly surprised. I had previously discounted/ignored the brand but clearly have now totally changed my view. They really are sublime. I was out in my collegue's D3 yesterday and surprisingly it actually makes a pleasant but subtle noise through the exhaust (Akrapovic). Point to point I reckon I could cover ground quicker in the Alpina than the M5 - it just seems better resolved. But each to their own and it's good that you're liking the M5.You're right however in that i've never driven a B5 as i wanted an M & as such i'm certainly not disputing your claims, merely suggesting your wants from the car maybe different to those that want & clearly enjoy the M5.
peter777s said:
Try an Alpina over an extended drive, (Sytner's are quite obliging to the right potential customer), I think you'll be pleasantly surprised. I had previously discounted/ignored the brand but clearly have now totally changed my view. They really are sublime. I was out in my collegue's D3 yesterday and surprisingly it actually makes a pleasant but subtle noise through the exhaust (Akrapovic). Point to point I reckon I could cover ground quicker in the Alpina than the M5 - it just seems better resolved. But each to their own and it's good that you're liking the M5.
I really can't see how that would be even remotely possible given even on paper the M5 is another level of performance, however i've never driven a D5 so can only base this on my M5 & reading the data on the D5. The B5 perhaps would be closer as this is a more powerful car OOTB, although i still think without the M-DCT & other M goodies, as well as being the equivalent of an adult passenger heavier than the M5 it would at best not be embarrassed.http://www.alpina-automobiles.com/en/models/d5-bit...
Either way & whilst i may try one at some point, my next car will not be wearing a BMW badge.
W8PMC said:
I really can't see how that would be even remotely possible given even on paper the M5 is another level of performance, however i've never driven a D5 so can only base this on my M5 & reading the data on the D5. The B5 perhaps would be closer as this is a more powerful car OOTB, although i still think without the M-DCT & other M goodies, as well as being the equivalent of an adult passenger heavier than the M5 it would at best not be embarrassed.
http://www.alpina-automobiles.com/en/models/d5-bit...
Either way & whilst i may try one at some point, my next car will not be wearing a BMW badge.
On the road (not track) - it's entirely possible. BTW I was referring to the D3. http://www.alpina-automobiles.com/en/models/d5-bit...
Either way & whilst i may try one at some point, my next car will not be wearing a BMW badge.
peter777s said:
On the road (not track) - it's entirely possible. BTW I was referring to the D3.
Sorry, i thought the comparison was with the D5. Same could be said for the M3/4 vs. M5 however, they're totally different cars & the M5 would walk away from the smaller M's in a straight line & on a bigger track, however on the tight & twisty stuff the lighter, smaller & likely a touch more agile car would be tougher to chase. That's why i was surprised by the D5 comparison as unless i'm reading the stats wrong they're hardly a quick car in todays performance car world, the D3 is a little quicker but still (it appears) not that much of a match for it's relative M cousin, but again i've only had limited time in a new M3 (didn't like it) & no time in any Alpina's.Gassing Station | M Power | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff