E46 M3 owners

[PurpleTurtle]

RiccardoG said:

Not an owner, sorry, but thinking of getting one. I'm considering the convertible as effectively what I am looking for is a 4 seater that goes well, sounds nice, looks good, etc. A car for weekends, special occasions etc, maybe the odd Euro trip. I also have a 997 Carrera which stays (coupe).

Is the M3 convertible as good an ownership proposition as the coupe?

I bought my '05 SMG Convertible for £38k at 18 months old with only 8k miles on it, it had retailed new at £53k. At the time I was in the habit of changing cars every 2 years, but a bad ownership experience with a 996 Coupe (every known fault on that model, it had 'em) so I got back into the M3 having previously owned a few non-M Cars.

It has been utterly magnificent as a daily driver (although I mostly commute by motorbike, so it's on a realtively low 75k miles at 10yrs old) and does everything I need. A very rapid trip down the Mulsanne Straight on a driving trip to France was a definite highlight, but it has also managed to drage me and all my camping gear into and out of Glastonbury several times.

I love it. Well I love it slightly less today - in at my local indie for an oil service, he's just called me to say it needs new rear brakes and new rubber at all corners - all expected, but still a bit of an 'ouch' moment!

The one benefit I never anticipated when I was a young bachelor about town is it having ISOFIX. That made no odds to me at the time I bought it, but has meant that I've been able to pop the child seat in the back now we have a baby. Can't wait for summer to let my boy get the wind in his hair (OK, blow past his little bald head!)

The only real problem I've had is cracked rear coil springs - it's now on its fourth set(!!) - I joke that these are now really a service item. Part of that is due to the shocking state of the roads where I live, but the OEM ones really aren't up to the job, I've gone non-OEM on the most recent change to see if they are any better. Rear PDC has recently gone on the blink and it can be a bit heavy on tyres, but other than that it has been utterly reliable, best car I have ever owned by a country mile. I saw a chap go past my indie in a V8 'vert whilst dropping it off, and much as I'd like one of those one day, I have a real attachment to this car so keeping it as long as it remains vaguely sensible to run.

[48Valves]

andyman_2006 said:

whatleytom said:

£15k for an SMG is punchy I'd say, seen similar spec'd and mileage manuals for around that. SMG's seem to be c.£2k less from what I've seen.

Well not sure on that.....as there are only 11 cars of this mileage on Autotrader, one private is £16500 so £15K would undercut that easily, and cheapest is £14999.

Sytner has a 53 plate SMG in silver and are asking £17K (granted with a warranty) but still.

Agree a manual would be my choice, but with only 8 manual cars of this mileage for sale on trader, supply and demand will drive the prices one way I'd guess.

You only need look at current asking prices of low mileage E36's both Manual and SMG...


Andy

I don't understand where the SMG's are cheaper rumor has come from. When I bought my SMG in October there was no noticeable difference in price between SMG and manual.

Plus the manual box is terrible.

[whatleytom]

Just what I thoughts noticed scanning the classifieds regularly at the moment. Quite possibly entirely wrong on that.

[andyman_2006]

48Valves said:

I don't understand where the SMG's are cheaper rumor has come from. When I bought my SMG in October there was no noticeable difference in price between SMG and manual.

Plus the manual box is terrible.

not sure, but as time goes on neither will be cheap, i have a manual car (as it drove smoother) and my mate had an SMG and had a pump fail on his, so i used the rule of thumb 'less to go wrong' and the manual was not as hard on the clutch, given smg is a manual with a hydraulic pump to operate the clucth, they do have a history of eating clutches faster, and smg pumps failing (my friend owns a BMW indy and said as much) but prob depends how the car is driven/looked after.

I prefer a Manual, always have. Each to their own. My car is on the original clutch at 88K miles.

Andy

[RiccardoG]

PurpleTurtle said:

I bought my '05 SMG Convertible for £38k at 18 months old with only 8k miles on it, it had retailed new at £53k. At the time I was in the habit of changing cars every 2 years, but a bad ownership experience with a 996 Coupe (every known fault on that model, it had 'em) so I got back into the M3 having previously owned a few non-M Cars.

It has been utterly magnificent as a daily driver (although I mostly commute by motorbike, so it's on a realtively low 75k miles at 10yrs old) and does everything I need. A very rapid trip down the Mulsanne Straight on a driving trip to France was a definite highlight, but it has also managed to drage me and all my camping gear into and out of Glastonbury several times.

I love it. Well I love it slightly less today - in at my local indie for an oil service, he's just called me to say it needs new rear brakes and new rubber at all corners - all expected, but still a bit of an 'ouch' moment!

The one benefit I never anticipated when I was a young bachelor about town is it having ISOFIX. That made no odds to me at the time I bought it, but has meant that I've been able to pop the child seat in the back now we have a baby. Can't wait for summer to let my boy get the wind in his hair (OK, blow past his little bald head!)

The only real problem I've had is cracked rear coil springs - it's now on its fourth set(!!) - I joke that these are now really a service item. Part of that is due to the shocking state of the roads where I live, but the OEM ones really aren't up to the job, I've gone non-OEM on the most recent change to see if they are any better. Rear PDC has recently gone on the blink and it can be a bit heavy on tyres, but other than that it has been utterly reliable, best car I have ever owned by a country mile. I saw a chap go past my indie in a V8 'vert whilst dropping it off, and much as I'd like one of those one day, I have a real attachment to this car so keeping it as long as it remains vaguely sensible to run.

Thanks Purpleturtle, good summary.

Mind you, these head gasket posts are putting me off a bit now. What with £1.5k in HG and another what, say £2k for rear subframe, thats a "static pot" of £3~3.5k just there, plus all the other regular age/maintenance issues. Not an issue on its own, but more of a problem when coupled with aging 911 ownership too.

I still think that the M3 is a tricky used buy, like all proper sports cars mind, whereas initially I had hoped it would be a bit more similar to say a 330Ci to buy and run.

[Davidonly]

V8Dom said:

MBeemerman said:

coopedup said:

Pics please....

and one of the interior

they are nice seats... which model are they if you dont mind me asking?

If u were trying to get a lower driving position so a helmet will fit in under the (sun roof equipped) roof lining. would I be right in thinking that the minimum height on these without shims would be a good bit lower than the powered OEM seat?

[david_h]

The Stiglet said:

Guys, wondering if you could suggest a price for a friend's M3 to sell privately please? It's in very good condition. Spec:

E46 BMW M3 3.2l SMG2.0 Coupe - Grey
Registered Mar 2006
BMW FSH
48000 miles
5 owners
Taxed 12 months
MOT 6 months
19” Diamond Cut Alloy Wheels with 4 newish tyres (Front 235 Rear 265)
Red Leather Nappa Leather interior
Anthracite linings and finishes
Harmon Kardon speakers
Pro Sat Nav with TV

That is a great colour combination, highly sought after. If mint I would agree £15k at least being a very late car and low miles.
Coupe's are worth more than verts, anything in silver or carbon black is less desirable as supply is much higher. Top money is paid for individual spec. cars with inoffensive colour combos, 2004+ facelift and manual coupes.

[MBeemerman]

Yes the height of these without shims is way lower than the standard seats. When I bought these I ordered them with the optional 20mm spacers (you get the 40mm ones included with the seat frames) but after fitting them in and out several times trying all the different heights ended up not using any of them and bolted them directly to the floor. I'm only 5'10 and the top of my head sits about level with the top of the seat so theres loads of room above and my car also has a sunroof.

[whatleytom]

Really like the look of this one. Any thoughts anyone?

http://forums.m3cutters.co.uk/showthread.php?t=146...

[CrouchingWayne]

Whatley - that one sold this morning (not to me, but I was in contact with the seller)

[whatleytom]

ah shame, back to the classified scanning. One of the few I've found that has had documented subframe repair and looked very well taken care of.

[Cheburator mk2]

andyman_2006 said:

not sure, but as time goes on neither will be cheap, i have a manual car (as it drove smoother) and my mate had an SMG and had a pump fail on his, so i used the rule of thumb 'less to go wrong' and the manual was not as hard on the clutch, given smg is a manual with a hydraulic pump to operate the clucth, they do have a history of eating clutches faster, and smg pumps failing (my friend owns a BMW indy and said as much) but prob depends how the car is driven/looked after.

I prefer a Manual, always have. Each to their own. My car is on the original clutch at 88K miles.

Andy

Err, wrong on the SMG vs. manual. Correctly set up SMG will last a lot longer. My car was on its original clutch at 120k - plenty of UK and French track days, and Nurburgring trips. Also it was initially a Frankfurt and then a Central London car. The pressure plate was good, the flywheel was good, just the friction disc was knackered. Another friend - 130k on a heavily tracked car. There is no way that your brain or mine or anyone elses can control a left leg better than a ECU and a hydraulic actuator. Problems happen because of faulty temperature or proximity sensors. Pumps rarely go - more often than not it is the electric motor. Now there are people rebuilding the pumps too in Germany.

If you want to drive fast on track - SMG, if you enjoy the feeling when you get a heel-and-toe downshift right - a manual is the better choice.

P.S. I went from a M3 SMG (gave it to my dad) to a brand new Z4MC at the time, so I do love a manual. Just think that SMG gets unfair rap too often

[Timbuktu]

Mine is up on auto trader if anyone is interested - silver '05 plate with 32K, subframe reinforced, vanos rebuilt, it's up for £16,450.

ETA: Sold

Edited by Timbuktu on Saturday 27th February 18:54

[andyman_2006]

Cheburator mk2 said:

Err, wrong on the SMG vs. manual. Correctly set up SMG will last a lot longer. My car was on its original clutch at 120k - plenty of UK and French track days, and Nurburgring trips. Also it was initially a Frankfurt and then a Central London car. The pressure plate was good, the flywheel was good, just the friction disc was knackered. Another friend - 130k on a heavily tracked car. There is no way that your brain or mine or anyone elses can control a left leg better than a ECU and a hydraulic actuator. Problems happen because of faulty temperature or proximity sensors. Pumps rarely go - more often than not it is the electric motor. Now there are people rebuilding the pumps too in Germany.

If you want to drive fast on track - SMG, if you enjoy the feeling when you get a heel-and-toe downshift right - a manual is the better choice.

P.S. I went from a M3 SMG (gave it to my dad) to a brand new Z4MC at the time, so I do love a manual. Just think that SMG gets unfair rap too often

---

i still dont like the SMG Box, and it is Jerky round town, and no matter what people say manual vs SMG, there is 'more' to go wrong with an SMG.

In the world of today's performance car market with many new Autos the Manual will no doubt show greater rarity, and values will follow in time to come.

The DCT boxes are far nicer to use, and quicker shifting still, its debatable how much faster than a manual the smg really is, bmw never quoted any difference in performance, maybe there is maybe there isn't...I'd still prefer to shift my own gears. Its each to their own ultimately.

The only Auto cars I'd care to own would be a Nissan GTR, or maybe a Jaguar F-Type-R or XKR-S.

Andy

[Gruber]

andyman_2006 said:

---

i still dont like the SMG Box, and it is Jerky round town, and no matter what people say manual vs SMG, there is 'more' to go wrong with an SMG.

In the world of today's performance car market with many new Autos the Manual will no doubt show greater rarity, and values will follow in time to come.

The DCT boxes are far nicer to use, and quicker shifting still, its debatable how much faster than a manual the smg really is, bmw never quoted any difference in performance, maybe there is maybe there isn't...I'd still prefer to shift my own gears. Its each to their own ultimately.

The only Auto cars I'd care to own would be a Nissan GTR, or maybe a Jaguar F-Type-R or XKR-S.

Andy

Have you owned an SMG car? I only ask because I tend to find those who've owned them really get them, whereas those that haven't just don't.

I'm a fan of SMG. Sure it's not as slick as a DCT. But it is more mechanical and requires some practice, and I like it. BMW manual gear changes just aren't that great, IMHO, especially when compared with the offerings from Porsche. I don't feel I'm missing much by giving up the third pedal.

So much so that after a 6 year holiday from e46 M3s, I've just bought another - a CS with SMG.

[slipstream 1985]

Gruber said:

andyman_2006 said:

---

i still dont like the SMG Box, and it is Jerky round town, and no matter what people say manual vs SMG, there is 'more' to go wrong with an SMG.

In the world of today's performance car market with many new Autos the Manual will no doubt show greater rarity, and values will follow in time to come.

The DCT boxes are far nicer to use, and quicker shifting still, its debatable how much faster than a manual the smg really is, bmw never quoted any difference in performance, maybe there is maybe there isn't...I'd still prefer to shift my own gears. Its each to their own ultimately.

The only Auto cars I'd care to own would be a Nissan GTR, or maybe a Jaguar F-Type-R or XKR-S.

Andy

Have you owned an SMG car? I only ask because I tend to find those who've owned them really get them, whereas those that haven't just don't.

I'm a fan of SMG. Sure it's not as slick as a DCT. But it is more mechanical and requires some practice, and I like it. BMW manual gear changes just aren't that great, IMHO, especially when compared with the offerings from Porsche. I don't feel I'm missing much by giving up the third pedal.

So much so that after a 6 year holiday from e46 M3s, I've just bought another - a CS with SMG.

I have an m3 e46 and a z3 and the z3 gearbox is much smoother.

[Babw]

I think it's easy to argue that the dimwitted SMG is a nuance and adds to the experience. Could say the same about poor quality tyres offering less grip so adding to the experience, huge turbos adding lag, adding coilovers with no travel to road cars etc

As someone who owned an SMG for 5 years it was pretty poor, I think BMW did a good job with the technology at the time and it's better than Ferrari from similar age but the Ferrari is a supercar where the best of the box makes sense as it's when you're flat out. I really don't think BMW made it dimwitted to "add to the experience". I've spoken to M engineers at a tour and they admitted if they had the DCT tech it would have been the ideal box for the E60 M5 (which also has SMG) and they had to develop the M5 CSL at the end of it's life just to confirm how suitable the gearbox is to the S85.

The M3 is a factory modified 3 series and BMW themselves advertise it as a relatively normal car that can be taken to track, it's however no supercar and the gearbox should have the versatility for the job. The SMG is at best annoying and at worst unbearable, it forced me to use my M3 as a weekend car as I could no longer bear using it daily.

If you use your M3 as a weekend car you can probably get away with SMG but forget it as a daily.

Edited by Babw on Monday 22 February 23:36

[Coker]

Bought in May 2014 for about £13k via private sale, but spent a fair bit on it since.


Oct 2005, manual box. Now on 72k miles.

Edited by Coker on Wednesday 24th February 02:20

[joema]

Tidy.

Manual box isn't great. Even my mk4 golf feels less notchy. But if you are conscious of it you can easily make smooth shifts.

I have the 330d shifter in mine and its throw is much better over the original one and not too short compared to short shifters.

[Coker]

joema said:

Tidy.

Manual box isn't great. Even my mk4 golf feels less notchy. But if you are conscious of it you can easily make smooth shifts.

I have the 330d shifter in mine and its throw is much better over the original one and not too short compared to short shifters.

The box isn't great, no, but it's nowhere near as bad as some people make out. It's not a patch on the Type R Hondas I've owned previously, but I've removed the CDV, fitted a braided hose and the shorter, weightier manual lever from an F10 M5 - small changes admittedly, but they've added up to improve the shift notably.