E39 M5 to 335i

[TheAngryDog]

Would making this change leave me in a world of disappointment?

I am thinking aloud at the moment, I'd just like something newer.

Thoughts anyone? Thanks

[DVandrews]

I made the change a year or so ago after having the M5 for 10 years. The 335i is a great car but it is no M5, I have fitted the Birds suspension and Quaife diff which has improved things and turned it into more of a weapon, but there are still areas where it disappoints compared to the M5. I wouldn't say the disappointment is huge, just the lack of handling finesse and sublime engine. Certainly the in Car systems are far better and the cabin is a great place to be.

Given the choice again, I would do the same.

Dave

[John Laverick]

DVandrews said:

I made the change a year or so ago after having the M5 for 10 years. The 335i is a great car but it is no M5, I have fitted the Birds suspension and Quaife diff which has improved things and turned it into more of a weapon, but there are still areas where it disappoints compared to the M5. I wouldn't say the disappointment is huge, just the lack of handling finesse and sublime engine. Certainly the in Car systems are far better and the cabin is a great place to be.

Given the choice again, I would do the same.

Dave

Fascinating.

I've also got a 2008 BMW 335i with the Birds suspension / Quaife Diff and a re-map. Its an extremely competent fast road car but just doesn't excite like my previous E46 M3 ... I can't put my finger on it but it's just not 'special'. I thought it was just me but apparently not!

[Smuler]

I think some disappointment.
There are some areas of disappointment I feel (after 16 months) from moving from a non M E46 to my E92 335i, namely I feel there is a slight diluted connection with the road, steering feedback.

BUT - and this is key - as a daily driver it's still superb; engine is fantastic, it's comfortable, and handling and feedback still good and I still enjoy the b road blasts.

You don't say what body shape but assuming you still need a certain practicality I can't think of a non M BMW that is newer, than your car, that will be better; I find after the E9X generation the cars really lose the connection with the road, with too light and lifeless steering. And the 3/4 is too big.

[cerb4.5lee]

Smuler said:

I find after the E9X generation the cars really lose the connection with the road, with too light and lifeless steering.

Agree with this and I really don't get on with the steering in the current 6 series and don't get me wrong it's a heavy and boring barge so my expectations aren't very high but electric steering is really poor.

My E90 330i isn't the most exciting thing either but it's steering at least gives some feel and you can tell it's actually connected to the wheels so you make a very valid point around the way current BMW's drive.

[rassi]

To the OP: why are you considering the change, and what is the use of the car? Daily driver, mileage etc would make it easier to guide you.

Personally, I found the E39 better built, with more character and a fantastic engine and a real dual character. The 335i if E9X shape is not as well built and just not as special as the fantastic E39 all rounder.

Possibly an M135i would be a bit more satisfying, but not sure of the budget of the OP.

[RS Grant]

John Laverick said:

I've also got a 2008 BMW 335i with the Birds suspension / Quaife Diff and a re-map. Its an extremely competent fast road car but just doesn't excite like my previous E46 M3 ... I can't put my finger on it but it's just not 'special'. I thought it was just me but apparently not!

I also went from an facelift E46 M3 to a 2011 335i with Hartge ECU, Quaife LSD and Birds Suspension/Bars... and it was the worst decision of my life. The E91 creaked, rattled, was poorly prepared and had numerous issues/warning lights appear during my brief ownership... despite the 8 year age gap, the build quality of my ~45k mile E46 was leagues better than my ~30k mile E91.

Despite the 'claimed' 360bhp upgrade on the 335i, it never felt like it had that.. in fact, it felt like my M3 would have wiped the floor with it. The Quaife LSD at least made it put what power it had down properly, the Bilstein suspension kit was decent enough (creaked a bit, apparently normal according to the knowitall salesman) but it just didn't feel special at all... actually wished that I'd kept the M3 and bought a 320d Touring because I never felt like driving it fast given the automatic gearbox killed what little fun it was able to provide... a far cry from being 'as close to an M3 Touring as you can get' which is how it was advertised.

In addition to the disappointment in the car, Birds are also the worst company I have ever dealt with; a very expensive lesson learnt there. I wouldn't let their workshop refill my screenwash or their 'detailers' polish my Transit Connect... and it'll be a bloody cold day in hell before I ever speak to the 'sales' team again. Absolute cowboys.

I bought a 1998 E39 540i SE Touring to run as a daily driver after the deal to sell the 335i was agreed, it was a one owner 60k mile example and it was built like an absolute tank with no squeaks or rattles and quality that was probably even better than my E46 had been... if build quality is something you value, then I would place money on you hating life in an E9* series car once the new car feeling has worn off.


Cheers,
Grant

Edited by RS Grant on Wednesday 24th February 16:23

[John Laverick]

RS Grant said:

I also went from an facelift E46 M3 to a 2011 335i with Hartge ECU, Quaife LSD and Birds Suspension/Bars... and it was the worst decision of my life. The E91 creaked, rattled, was poorly prepared and had numerous issues/warning lights appear during my brief ownership... despite the 8 year age gap, the build quality of my ~45k mile E46 was leagues better than my ~30k mile E91.

Worst decision of your life?! You've had it easy :-) Interesting to hear someone else direct comparison though.

There are some aspects of the 335i I prefer over the E46 M3. The torque is very nice (especially as the M3 was always a little lacking in that department), I do think the ride and handling (with the Birds kit) are far superior to the E46 M3 especially on bumpy country lanes (although the M3 was fitted with Eibach springs due to them constantly snapping which may not have helped the comparison). The Quaife is far superior to the M3s standard LSD.

However, agreed, the build quality of the E92 is not nearly as good as the E46.

n.b. My M3 was smg and my 335i is a manual.

RS Grant said:

Despite the 'claimed' 360bhp upgrade on the 335i, it never felt like it had that.. in fact, it felt like my M3 would have wiped the floor with it. The Quaife LSD at least made it put what power it had down properly, the Bilstein suspension kit was decent enough (creaked a bit, apparently normal according to the knowitall salesman) but it just didn't feel special at all... actually wished that I'd kept the M3 and bought a 320d Touring because I never felt like driving it fast given the automatic gearbox killed what little fun it was able to provide... a far cry from being 'as close to an M3 Touring as you can get' which is how it was advertised.

Agreed mine never feels quite as fast as the 350BHP plus would suggest however I do think it's deceptively fast. This is mainly due to the lack smoothness of the delivery, low down torque and lack of 'top-end rush' you get with the N/A M3.

[TheAngryDog]

rassi said:

To the OP: why are you considering the change, and what is the use of the car? Daily driver, mileage etc would make it easier to guide you.

Personally, I found the E39 better built, with more character and a fantastic engine and a real dual character. The 335i if E9X shape is not as well built and just not as special as the fantastic E39 all rounder.

Possibly an M135i would be a bit more satisfying, but not sure of the budget of the OP.

Thanks for your input all.

Rassi, m5 is weekend use as it was getting ruined as my daily, seeing as I do around 2k business miles a month generally. I have a saab 9-3 aero for dd duties but it's a bit squeaky and rattles a lot, which it only started Doing after being parked in Heathrow for 3 weeks.

I dunno, just thinking of just having one decent newer car.

[Smuler]

TheAngryDog said:

Thanks for your input all.

Rassi, m5 is weekend use as it was getting ruined as my daily, seeing as I do around 2k business miles a month generally. I have a saab 9-3 aero for dd duties but it's a bit squeaky and rattles a lot, which it only started Doing after being parked in Heathrow for 3 weeks.

I dunno, just thinking of just having one decent newer car.

I nearly went the opposite way, couple weeks ago, with a M as a weekend car and then a "shed" (ish) as a daily.

When my purchase fell thru, what mitigated the disappointment was that with the 335i, I just get in and drive it, not really feeling it's too special that I care about putting on the miles and/or taking it into the city with all the near misses, cos of others' sh*t driving, and the occasional parking ding; but if I take yesterday as an example, I escaped the city early and then took it down the coast and on some choice b roads. It's not a M car, but still very good, hitting high speeds and handling that on the bends. even better when it's on the summer Michelin PSS'
I couldn't have had that fun in an ordinary daily d.


Sometimes the "one stop shop" = more overall pleasure.

[John Laverick]

Smuler said:

I nearly went the opposite way, couple weeks ago, with a M as a weekend car and then a "shed" (ish) as a daily.

When my purchase fell thru, what mitigated the disappointment was that with the 335i, I just get in and drive it, not really feeling it's too special that I care about putting on the miles and/or taking it into the city with all the near misses, cos of others' sh*t driving, and the occasional parking ding; but if I take yesterday as an example, I escaped the city early and then took it down the coast and on some choice b roads. It's not a M car, but still very good, hitting high speeds and handling that on the bends. even better when it's on the summer Michelin PSS'
I couldn't have had that fun in an ordinary daily d.


Sometimes the "one stop shop" = more overall pleasure.

That was my thought process .... I sold an everyday Cayman S and bought the 335i and an Elise 111r (which has barely been driven).

This morning was a good example, I decided to take the back roads into work in the 335i as it was a nice fresh, sunny morning. The BM was good fun, a few oversteery moments here and there and if I'd been in a proper shed I wouldn't have bothered.

[TheAngryDog]

You know it's odd, being an owner I never realised that the M5 was so slow. 60-100mph in 8.2 seconds in what must be 4th is slower than the E46 M3 which the M5 was meant to be on a par with. Quite surprised and disappointed tbh.

[Patrick Bateman]

TheAngryDog said:

You know it's odd, being an owner I never realised that the M5 was so slow. 60-100mph in 8.2 seconds in what must be 4th is slower than the E46 M3 which the M5 was meant to be on a par with. Quite surprised and disappointed tbh.

Am I missing something here?

[TheAngryDog]

Patrick Bateman said:

TheAngryDog said:

You know it's odd, being an owner I never realised that the M5 was so slow. 60-100mph in 8.2 seconds in what must be 4th is slower than the E46 M3 which the M5 was meant to be on a par with. Quite surprised and disappointed tbh.

Am I missing something here?

I saw a list of cars and their 60-100mph times, saw that the M5 was listed at 8.2 seconds, but it looks like its the E34, with the E39 being 6 seconds..

[Patrick Bateman]

Keep up at the back! 0-100 is in the 11s area, that'd be one hell of a 0-60 launch...

[Robbidoo]

RS Grant said:

In addition to the disappointment in the car, Birds are also the worst company I have ever dealt with; a very expensive lesson learnt there. I wouldn't let their workshop refill my screenwash or their 'detailers' polish my Transit Connect... and it'll be a bloody cold day in hell before I ever speak to the 'sales' team again. Absolute cowboys.

Edited by RS Grant on Wednesday 24th February 16:23

Birds generally have a good reputation I thought - what happened?

[johnao]

TheAngryDog said:

Thanks for your input all.

Rassi, m5 is weekend use as it was getting ruined as my daily, seeing as I do around 2k business miles a month generally. I have a saab 9-3 aero for dd duties but it's a bit squeaky and rattles a lot, which it only started Doing after being parked in Heathrow for 3 weeks.

I dunno, just thinking of just having one decent newer car.

I am fortunate enough to own a 335i coupe and an E39 M5.

The 335i is a superb car, but the E39 M5 is awesome.

If I were you I'd change the Saab for a 335i coupe, or one of the latest four door equivalents, [4 series? 3 series?], if the budget will stretch that far.

Good luck.

[TheAngryDog]

johnao said:

TheAngryDog said:

Thanks for your input all.

Rassi, m5 is weekend use as it was getting ruined as my daily, seeing as I do around 2k business miles a month generally. I have a saab 9-3 aero for dd duties but it's a bit squeaky and rattles a lot, which it only started Doing after being parked in Heathrow for 3 weeks.

I dunno, just thinking of just having one decent newer car.

I am fortunate enough to own a 335i coupe and an E39 M5.

The 335i is a superb car, but the E39 M5 is awesome.

If I were you I'd change the Saab for a 335i coupe, or one of the latest four door equivalents, [4 series? 3 series?], if the budget will stretch that far.

Good luck.

Thanks. I couldnt afford both tbh, not with the ongoing maintenance needed for the M5. I am considering selling it, sitting on the money while I save up and getting a VXR8 however and running that as a daily and weekend car.

[Seesure]

Lol wakey wakey....

Patrick Bateman said:

Keep up at the back! 0-100 is in the 11s area, that'd be one hell of a 0-60 launch...

TheAngryDog said:

You know it's odd, being an owner I never realised that the M5 was so slow. 60-100mph in 8.2 seconds in what must be 4th is slower than the E46 M3 which the M5 was meant to be on a par with. Quite surprised and disappointed tbh.

[bennyboysvuk]

I don't know about the E39 M5, but I was terribly disappointed with my E91 330. I know the Touring's chassis is aimed further at understeer than the coupe version, but it shares the same front suspension, which I didn't like.

The E90s front bushes are far more flimsy than the M car's and they deflect a huge amount when you really press on, so the suspension geometry changes towards positive camber and understeer rears its ugly head. I got annoyed with the 330 and sold it after 10 months. It could be mildly entertaining on very slippery surfaces in the wet, but in the dry it was as dull as dishwater, especially when connected to the auto-box.