E39 M5 to 335i
Discussion
Seesure said:
Lol wakey wakey....
And you should know better too, for shame!Patrick Bateman said:
Keep up at the back! 0-100 is in the 11s area, that'd be one hell of a 0-60 launch...
TheAngryDog said:
You know it's odd, being an owner I never realised that the M5 was so slow. 60-100mph in 8.2 seconds in what must be 4th is slower than the E46 M3 which the M5 was meant to be on a par with. Quite surprised and disappointed tbh.
If the 0-100 is 11 seconds and the 0-60 is 5 seconds, what does that leave the 60-100?
TheAngryDog said:
johnao said:
TheAngryDog said:
Thanks for your input all.
Rassi, m5 is weekend use as it was getting ruined as my daily, seeing as I do around 2k business miles a month generally. I have a saab 9-3 aero for dd duties but it's a bit squeaky and rattles a lot, which it only started Doing after being parked in Heathrow for 3 weeks.
I dunno, just thinking of just having one decent newer car.
I am fortunate enough to own a 335i coupe and an E39 M5. Rassi, m5 is weekend use as it was getting ruined as my daily, seeing as I do around 2k business miles a month generally. I have a saab 9-3 aero for dd duties but it's a bit squeaky and rattles a lot, which it only started Doing after being parked in Heathrow for 3 weeks.
I dunno, just thinking of just having one decent newer car.
The 335i is a superb car, but the E39 M5 is awesome.
If I were you I'd change the Saab for a 335i coupe, or one of the latest four door equivalents, [4 series? 3 series?], if the budget will stretch that far.
Good luck.
Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed my VXR8 for the 18 months I kept it but I've loved the M5 for the 4 years + I've had it.
2k business miles a month and using a 22mpg Saab 95 Aero (Estate?)
Ouch.
None the less E39 M5 what a car - looks noise acknowledged as one of the best M5's. Sure it's pace has waned v modern metal but that's utterly irrelevant.
Really it's not going to cost you much to keep running now as depreciation is tiny so it's purely normal running costs - and I'm assuming you've looked after yours not run it to the max on all servicing which is now all due as such why not keep her? You'll struggle to find good M5's for sensible money/far too many sellers yodelling "future classic" nonsense so you get £20k E39's which is silly.
On the flip side you've scratched that itch and there are countless other great cars to own and someone will love to own your cherished M5.
One thing that Aero 95 is a great bargain and the best seats money can buy selling it you'd get buttons for it instead run it until it breaks.
Ouch.
None the less E39 M5 what a car - looks noise acknowledged as one of the best M5's. Sure it's pace has waned v modern metal but that's utterly irrelevant.
Really it's not going to cost you much to keep running now as depreciation is tiny so it's purely normal running costs - and I'm assuming you've looked after yours not run it to the max on all servicing which is now all due as such why not keep her? You'll struggle to find good M5's for sensible money/far too many sellers yodelling "future classic" nonsense so you get £20k E39's which is silly.
On the flip side you've scratched that itch and there are countless other great cars to own and someone will love to own your cherished M5.
One thing that Aero 95 is a great bargain and the best seats money can buy selling it you'd get buttons for it instead run it until it breaks.
Patrick Bateman said:
Unless you're doing bugger all miles, they still cost a lot to run. No way round it really.
But buy a £25k car and you are spending £500+ PM on depreciation. There is no way all in that the E39 M5 costs £6k year on year to run pre fuel. Or if it does then it would be a one off then you have a properly settled car. Tyres and brakes do. Or wear out quicker as it's an M car there is no M car tax on such items.
Patrick Bateman said:
In comparison to that, yeah sure. But the values going up/staying firm definitely won't result in a net profit unless you wrap the thing up.
But it takes depreciation essentially out of the equation or makes it such a tiny PCs value it's irrelevant. Big costs on this car
Clutch with flywheel
Breaks
Tyres
Drive shaft when it goes.
Vanos system
What else is there? So depending if OP has or hasn't got all of the above to come soon OR if they have fairly recently been done then it will be cheap motoring for some time to come.
Why not run it right up to when it next needs a big service item and sell then / let the next owner take on that cost?
John Laverick said:
RS Grant said:
I also went from an facelift E46 M3 to a 2011 335i with Hartge ECU, Quaife LSD and Birds Suspension/Bars... and it was the worst decision of my life. The E91 creaked, rattled, was poorly prepared and had numerous issues/warning lights appear during my brief ownership... despite the 8 year age gap, the build quality of my ~45k mile E46 was leagues better than my ~30k mile E91.
Worst decision of your life?! You've had it easy :-) Interesting to hear someone else direct comparison though.There are some aspects of the 335i I prefer over the E46 M3. The torque is very nice (especially as the M3 was always a little lacking in that department), I do think the ride and handling (with the Birds kit) are far superior to the E46 M3 especially on bumpy country lanes (although the M3 was fitted with Eibach springs due to them constantly snapping which may not have helped the comparison). The Quaife is far superior to the M3s standard LSD.
However, agreed, the build quality of the E92 is not nearly as good as the E46.
n.b. My M3 was smg and my 335i is a manual.
Haha, ok... I'll rephrase what I said, it was the worst CAR related decision of my life!!
I found my M3 to be good on B-road blasts, but the 335i was probably a little more supple and could absorb lumps and bumps a wee bit better with the Bilstein Suspension/Roll Bars so easier to drive quickly on the same roads.
John Laverick said:
RS Grant said:
Despite the 'claimed' 360bhp upgrade on the 335i, it never felt like it had that.. in fact, it felt like my M3 would have wiped the floor with it. The Quaife LSD at least made it put what power it had down properly, the Bilstein suspension kit was decent enough (creaked a bit, apparently normal according to the knowitall salesman) but it just didn't feel special at all... actually wished that I'd kept the M3 and bought a 320d Touring because I never felt like driving it fast given the automatic gearbox killed what little fun it was able to provide... a far cry from being 'as close to an M3 Touring as you can get' which is how it was advertised.
Agreed mine never feels quite as fast as the 350BHP plus would suggest however I do think it's deceptively fast. This is mainly due to the lack smoothness of the delivery, low down torque and lack of 'top-end rush' you get with the N/A M3.Cheers,
Grant
Robbidoo said:
RS Grant said:
In addition to the disappointment in the car, Birds are also the worst company I have ever dealt with; a very expensive lesson learnt there. I wouldn't let their workshop refill my screenwash or their 'detailers' polish my Transit Connect... and it'll be a bloody cold day in hell before I ever speak to the 'sales' team again. Absolute cowboys.
Birds generally have a good reputation I thought - what happened?However the ownership experience takes a really sour turn once they have your money and if you start experiencing issues with your 'professionally detailed, fully serviced/inspected, Gold warranty'd car' I'm afraid.
I'm going to write a thread about it, it's too much to write in one reply here, it really deserves it's own thread... but I'll fire a link in here once it's done.
Cheers,
Grant
Welshbeef said:
But it takes depreciation essentially out of the equation or makes it such a tiny PCs value it's irrelevant.
Big costs on this car
Clutch with flywheel
Breaks
Tyres
Drive shaft when it goes.
Vanos system
What else is there? So depending if OP has or hasn't got all of the above to come soon OR if they have fairly recently been done then it will be cheap motoring for some time to come.
Why not run it right up to when it next needs a big service item and sell then / let the next owner take on that cost?
Possibly the most optimistic view I've ever heard about M5 ownership. Big costs on this car
Clutch with flywheel
Breaks
Tyres
Drive shaft when it goes.
Vanos system
What else is there? So depending if OP has or hasn't got all of the above to come soon OR if they have fairly recently been done then it will be cheap motoring for some time to come.
Why not run it right up to when it next needs a big service item and sell then / let the next owner take on that cost?
Never heard much about drive shafts going. Rod bearings and timing chain guides can be added to the major potential issues at higher miles.
A car that's had a lot of big jobs taken care of will still need constant maintenance. Not every individual bill is ruinous but it is death by a thousand cuts.
As far as definite maintenance that more or less will be required at some point, at least to keep on top of it and have the car running as it should, you can add on-
rust niggles
suspension items
thermostat
fan clutch
vapour barriers
diff seals
camshaft sensors
rocker cover gaskets
pre-cat lambda sensors
exhaust brackets
power steering hoses
timing chain tensioner
dead pixels
propshaft centre bearing
oil filter mounts
To name a few obvious ones.
Obviously these won't all be at once but you can buy one of the best cars out there and I'd guarantee it'll still need attention. The only way around it would be to do bugger all miles and only keep it for a year.
Look at what I've done to mine in the past 2.5 years and 30k miles and despite all this there's a creaking from the front of the car after a long drive (likely centre drag link, not cheap) that's needing sorted, a brake bulb I had to replace the other day, now a parking sensor is playing up, the wing mirror glass could do with replacing and the driver's wing mirror won't fold up itself.
The cheap-to-run M5 is a unicorn. Don't get me wrong, even with everything I've spent it's far better than never owning one and wondering what could have been. The feeling of missing the boat would have been something I'd regretted. Any potential buyers, just don't expect an easy ride.
Edited by Patrick Bateman on Tuesday 1st March 20:50
PHCorvette said:
All the above demonstrated the importance of not buying a pup. Same miles, similar years, just brakes, oil and tyres.
How many miles have you done in yours and what have previous owners sorted on it?I'd suggest you've been very lucky rather than your experience being typical of ownership.
Many owners on m5board and bmw5 have much the same experience as myself when doing half decent miles. A 15 year old, 1.8 tonne, relatively complex M car is not likely to get to 150k miles without needing a fair bit of attention to keep it running as intended. Pretty much all of the items I've listed there are a 'when not if', it's the nature of the beast.
Simple things that might not necessarily be broken, suspension say, will be well past their best. Shock absorbers, any rubber, top mounts and so on. So then, for me, it comes to what's the point in having the M car if it's not going to drive like it ought to?
olly22n said:
nick1275 said:
Since September, mines had tyres, clutch and flywheel, insp 2 and belts. This weekends project is rear pads, front drop links and rear arb bushes. Then there's the warped front discs to sort......
Tenner says its your torque reaction bushes. ( thrust arms)M5 is a much better car
I have owned e39 m5, e60 m5, e46 m3, e90 m3, c63, e63 and a few mistakes including 335i, 335d x5 40d
The M steering and suspension is different class to any standard or even birds modified BMW
I regretted selling all my m cars (and AMGs)... Was relieved to sell everything else.
The 335i with a good remap is quite quick in a straight line and sounds nice, but is out of its depth on the limit compared to an M anything.
I have owned e39 m5, e60 m5, e46 m3, e90 m3, c63, e63 and a few mistakes including 335i, 335d x5 40d
The M steering and suspension is different class to any standard or even birds modified BMW
I regretted selling all my m cars (and AMGs)... Was relieved to sell everything else.
The 335i with a good remap is quite quick in a straight line and sounds nice, but is out of its depth on the limit compared to an M anything.
mb26 said:
M5 is a much better car
I have owned e39 m5, e60 m5, e46 m3, e90 m3, c63, e63 and a few mistakes including 335i, 335d x5 40d
The M steering and suspension is different class to any standard or even birds modified BMW
I regretted selling all my m cars (and AMGs)... Was relieved to sell everything else.
The 335i with a good remap is quite quick in a straight line and sounds nice, but is out of its depth on the limit compared to an M anything.
+1 I have owned e39 m5, e60 m5, e46 m3, e90 m3, c63, e63 and a few mistakes including 335i, 335d x5 40d
The M steering and suspension is different class to any standard or even birds modified BMW
I regretted selling all my m cars (and AMGs)... Was relieved to sell everything else.
The 335i with a good remap is quite quick in a straight line and sounds nice, but is out of its depth on the limit compared to an M anything.
I have an Evolve mapped 335i and agree that, whilst pretty quick in a straight line, the chassis lacks M car class on the limit.
Did you try a 335i with Birds fettled suspension and if so did it have a Quaife too ? I find the steering on my E92 is OK but the lack of LSD, and relatively basic damping, really compromises things on the limit or on poor surfaces.
Edited by Crackie on Saturday 12th March 15:54
mb26 said:
Yes had birds Suspension and quaife fitted. Took it on a track day and got bored with under steer, and the auto box which does not work on track, parked it and bought an e60 m5 the next week.
Unless you want to tune for drag racing or don't care about handling I would stay away
I've got a 135i with birds B1 suspension and it's so unsettled it's unreal Unless you want to tune for drag racing or don't care about handling I would stay away
My R32 would be far better cross country and now wish I'd kept
Wish I'd saved and gone M3
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